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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

During the period from 2009:

Saints - 6 GF's 3 wins, 1 Cup final, 0 wins (3LLS) 

Leeds - 5 GF's, 5 wins, 6 Cup finals, 3 wins (2LLS)

Wigan - 7 GF's, 4 wins, 3 Cup finals, 2 wins (3LLS)

Wire - 4GF's, 0 wins, 6 Cup finals, 4 wins (2LLS)

Hull - 0 GF's, 3 Cup finals, 2 wins

Catalans - 0GFs, 1 Cup final, 1 win

Cas - 1 GF, 0 wins, 1 Cup final, 0 wins (1LLS)

Salford - 1 GF, 0 wins, 1 Cup final, 0 wins

Hudds - 1 Cup final, 0 wins, (1 LLS) 

Hull KR - 1 Cup final, 0 wins 

 

Silverware during those 12 seasons:

Leeds - 10

Wigan - 9

Saints/Wire - 6

Hull - 2

Catalans - 1

Cas - 1

Hudds - 1

 

That hardly looks like a club with issues. It is widely acknowledged that Saints, Wigan and Leeds have the best setups from a player development point of view, along with deep pockets. Being in that company by competing in the biggest games in UK RL over the last decade is absolutely success. 

 

 

Why have you randomly selected 2009 at a starting point  ?

Why not the start of the SL era, or the start of when Briers joined Warrington in 97 

I guess including anything before 2009 would make the mighty Wire's record look to be a team of more underachievers

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I've seen Facebook threads with more quality than this one. This story about a drinking culture is a bit sad. We are not, and have not been for many a year, a team lacking fitness or dedication -

Not my cup of tea, but Shirley...no one can doubt his commitment to the club and the game (not that anyone is doing) In his role as water carrier, and even on occasions as the 14th man, he's been one

So you were going to make it up? 

8 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

It's not all about that at all.

That's why teams don't win it from 5th or 6th, and Wigan are very unusual in that they won it from 4th.

The Stats don't lie.  1st and 2nd places give you a far better chance of winning the competition.

Teams do win it from lower down, Leeds won it twice from fifth. Off the top of my head I know Wigan have won it from 3rd and 4th. Plenty of teams have done it from 2nd. Very rarely has the top, and by definition most consistent team won.

Again its all about peaking to win a few games at the end of the season. If the quality of the team is good enough they are more than able to do this. The teams outside the big clubs that finish lower down generally aren't. If a Wigan or Leeds do then all bets are off. We will agree to disagree.

 

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17 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

It's not all about that at all.

That's why teams don't win it from 5th or 6th, and Wigan are very unusual in that they won it from 4th.

The Stats don't lie.  1st and 2nd places give you a far better chance of winning the competition.

FACT - Leeds won it from 5th

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2 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Why have you randomly selected 2009 at a starting point  ?

Why not the start of the SL era, or the start of when Briers joined Warrington in 97 

I guess including anything before 2009 would make the mighty Wire's record look to be a team of more underachievers

Maybe that is when Warrington started to invest more money and be able to compete with the more successful clubs. 

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5 hours ago, Dave T said:

During the period from 2009:

Saints - 6 GF's 3 wins, 1 Cup final, 0 wins (3LLS) 

Leeds - 5 GF's, 5 wins, 6 Cup finals, 3 wins (2LLS)

Wigan - 7 GF's, 4 wins, 3 Cup finals, 2 wins (3LLS)

Wire - 4GF's, 0 wins, 6 Cup finals, 4 wins (2LLS)

Hull - 0 GF's, 3 Cup finals, 2 wins

Catalans - 0GFs, 1 Cup final, 1 win

Cas - 1 GF, 0 wins, 1 Cup final, 0 wins (1LLS)

Salford - 1 GF, 0 wins, 1 Cup final, 0 wins

Hudds - 1 Cup final, 0 wins, (1 LLS) 

Hull KR - 1 Cup final, 0 wins 

 

Silverware during those 12 seasons:

Leeds - 10

Wigan - 9

Saints/Wire - 6

Hull - 2

Catalans - 1

Cas - 1

Hudds - 1

 

That hardly looks like a club with issues. It is widely acknowledged that Saints, Wigan and Leeds have the best setups from a player development point of view, along with deep pockets. Being in that company by competing in the biggest games in UK RL over the last decade is absolutely success. 

 

 

Well there is obviously something culturally wrong at Hull,Catalans,Cas & Huddersfield 😂😂

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2 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Well there is obviously something culturally wrong at Hull,Catalans,Cas & Huddersfield 😂😂

Did a coach tell you that, did you guess or did you just make it up 😂😂

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8 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Well there is obviously something culturally wrong at Hull,Catalans,Cas & Huddersfield 😂😂

An idiotic post tbh. 

Catalans definitely have had serious issues around their culture in the past.

But comparing clubs from 1 horse towns like Castleford, or teams with no fans like Hudds, to Warrington, with their resources, is just embarrassing.  These teams should be a skidmark on the ground when they play Warrington.  If Warrington are benchmarking themselves against Castleford or Huddersfield (I'm sure they aren't!) then it would be no wonder they've never won the league.

Warrington has just signed Greg Inglis FFS.  I can just imagine him turning up at Huddersfield. 🙄

 

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3 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Why have you randomly selected 2009 at a starting point  ?

Why not the start of the SL era, or the start of when Briers joined Warrington in 97 

I guess including anything before 2009 would make the mighty Wire's record look to be a team of more underachievers

Because the Warrington Wolves of 1997 is very different to the club of the last decade, particularly when talking about culture at the club. 

But tbh, if we did that, it would prove my point - the period you highlight we were a basket case, for the last decade we haven't been. 

I know you werent trying to, but thanks for strengthening my point! 

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15 minutes ago, Damien said:

Did a coach tell you that, did you guess or did you just make it up 😂😂

Got it off an Inverness Caledonia Thistle fan,apparently they know all about the inner workings of Superleague clubs.

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15 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

 

Warrington has just signed Greg Inglis FFS.  I can just imagine him turning up at Huddersfield. 🙄

 

AS a Warrington fan I would like him to turn up at any ground never mind Huddersfield. 

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On 23/04/2021 at 18:59, ELBOWSEYE said:

AS a Warrington fan I would like him to turn up at any ground never mind Huddersfield. 

He's been a pundit for Sky, as close as he has got so far.

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17 minutes ago, Damien said:

He's been a pundit for Sky, as close as he has got so far.

Next week Price says he will be in the 17 so here's hoping. 

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On 23/04/2021 at 17:20, ELBOWSEYE said:

Maybe that is when Warrington started to invest more money and be able to compete with the more successful clubs. 

Except it wasn't, Moran bought them 6 years earlier and started pumping money into the club almost immediately.

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On 23/04/2021 at 18:44, Dave T said:

Because the Warrington Wolves of 1997 is very different to the club of the last decade, particularly when talking about culture at the club. 

But tbh, if we did that, it would prove my point - the period you highlight we were a basket case, for the last decade we haven't been. 

I know you werent trying to, but thanks for strengthening my point! 

But you didn't pick the last decade, you picked a random year of 2009.

You didn't pick the start of SL in 96 when Warrington were full time like everyone else. You didn't pick 97 when Briers joined the club, You didn't pick 2003 when Moran bought the club and started pouring Millions into the team or when  the new stadium opened the same year.

No you picked a random date that tried to make Warrington's record look better compared to other successful clubs.

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3 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

But you didn't pick the last decade, you picked a random year of 2009.

You didn't pick the start of SL in 96 when Warrington were full time like everyone else. You didn't pick 97 when Briers joined the club, You didn't pick 2003 when Moran bought the club and started pouring Millions into the team or when  the new stadium opened the same year.

No you picked a random date that tried to make Warrington's record look better compared to other successful clubs.

I picked 2009 as it was when Wire first won a trophy in the modern era. They changed coach and brought in Tony Smith which delivered a huge shift in the club.

Prior to 2009 and Tony Smith joining, nobody would have challenged the point that Wire had culture issues. 

I mean, it's quite a simple point, but it obviously upsets you and it is quite easy to see why.

TBH, I'm not sure you have actually followed the point of what was being discussed.

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19 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I picked 2009 as it was when Wire first won a trophy in the modern era. They changed coach and brought in Tony Smith which delivered a huge shift in the club.

Prior to 2009 and Tony Smith joining, nobody would have challenged the point that Wire had culture issues. 

I mean, it's quite a simple point, but it obviously upsets you and it is quite easy to see why.

TBH, I'm not sure you have actually followed the point of what was being discussed.

One thing i remember from that coaching change was "change of culture".. many many times from many many people.. I take that to be that there was more professionalism brought in etc 

the issues around not winning the Grand Final are perhaps more in the "always our year" pressure that can get into your head. they can obviously perform when needed but there seems to be a block around that.. a wholesale change in coaching maybe just what they need to break that. 

 

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4 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Except it wasn't, Moran bought them 6 years earlier and started pumping money into the club almost immediately.

You cannot flick a switch no matter what money you invest in RL due to the limited availability of players and the salary cap, most people see the appointment of Smith with the financial backing as the start of Warrington starting to compete for trophies, you can put what angle you choose to use and whatever year a person uses to emphasise a point others will say why not use this year instead. You can use whatever year you want I will use 2009 as my starting date. 

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20 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

You cannot flick a switch no matter what money you invest in RL due to the limited availability of players and the salary cap, most people see the appointment of Smith with the financial backing as the start of Warrington starting to compete for trophies, you can put what angle you choose to use and whatever year a person uses to emphasise a point others will say why not use this year instead. You can use whatever year you want I will use 2009 as my starting date. 

Yup. The starting point has a really clear reason behind it.

Warrington could absolutely have been described as a basket case for the first few years of SL, until early 2000's when they almost went bust and had coaches like Steve Anderson and David Plange. Then things turned round with Moran getting involved and the stadium being delivered. We saw a little more investment in the team, but the team was still relatively average and often under-performed under Cullen, although I personally enjoyed this period. 

In 2009 we made that change following a weird spell with Lowes at the top and went for one of the best in the business, instead of chasing the 'local boy done good' story. 

At that stage, there was a clear change, Smith made some big differences straight away and after 13 years of SL we became a far more professional club on the pitch that matched some of the progression the off-field changes we had made. 

Since 2009 it is hard to class the Warrington Wolves team as having a poor culture in my opinion. They have played in final after final, winning some, losing some, played in WCC games, winning big semi finals, playing decent rugby for large parts and being a decent club. That is all very different from the first 6 or 7 years of SL, and a step change from the next 6 years of SL. 

For me, it has been like supporting three different clubs over those 3 periods.

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12 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Why not Leigh, god knows Duffy could do with some help of someone who has been involved in coaching in SL.

John Davidson reporting Briers has applied for head of youth at Leigh, also that Duffy has 2/3 games to save his job.

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3 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

John Davidson reporting Briers has applied for head of youth at Leigh, also that Duffy has 2/3 games to save his job.

Duffy isn't a good coach in my opinion. But bug ger me, tell me a coach who would get results under those circumstances?

 

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13 hours ago, LeytherRob said:

John Davidson reporting Briers has applied for head of youth at Leigh, also that Duffy has 2/3 games to save his job.

Didn't know that Rob thanks for the info, so with Saints, Wigan and Huddersfield in that order I cannot see much longevity in Mr Duffy's tenure. Would he be sacked with no replacement lined up?

I thought Gareth Carvell was the head of yourh at Leigh?

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3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Didn't know that Rob thanks for the info, so with Saints, Wigan and Huddersfield in that order I cannot see much longevity in Mr Duffy's tenure. Would he be sacked with no replacement lined up?

I thought Gareth Carvell was the head of yourh at Leigh?

Carvell is Director of Rugby which handles first team matters such as recruitment mainly, he was helping oversee the application for the academy but wasn't lined up to do any coaching. 

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