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Academy Licensing (2022 - 27) - (Merged threads)


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Well, Rimmer just embarrassed himself on Sky with an incompetent attempt to defend their position. Frustrating, but ultimately helpful I think - their argument is clearly a house of cards if that’s the best they can do 

 

As Karl Turner Hull’s MP said today, this issue isn’t going away whether the RFL would like it to or not. Kids’ opportunities being limited by a sport with government funding is not a great look...

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Well, Rimmer just embarrassed himself on Sky with an incompetent attempt to defend their position. Frustrating, but ultimately helpful I think - their argument is clearly a house of cards if that’s the best they can do 

 

As Karl Turner Hull’s MP said today, this issue isn’t going away whether the RFL would like it to or not. Kids’ opportunities being limited by a sport with government funding is not a great look...

 

 

In what way are opportunities limited , are you not allowed to play RL if you haven't been through an academy ?

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

In what way are opportunities limited , are you not allowed to play RL if you haven't been through an academy ?

Could you be any more deliberately obtuse? If you can’t differentiate between two different types of opportunity then I’m worried. And if you can’t see that the carrot of a pro spot at, or even being in the pathway for, your local team helps increase the initial numbers of people attracted to and engaged in youth sport then again, I’d be concerned.

 

Of course, you can see those things really, you’re just playing semantics for the crack 

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2 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Well, Rimmer just embarrassed himself on Sky with an incompetent attempt to defend their position. Frustrating, but ultimately helpful I think - their argument is clearly a house of cards if that’s the best they can do 

 

As Karl Turner Hull’s MP said today, this issue isn’t going away whether the RFL would like it to or not. Kids’ opportunities being limited by a sport with government funding is not a great look...

 

 

Is Karl Turner a fan of our game or just doing what he is doing as a way to curry favour with Robins fans and hoping they all vote for him come the next general election?

I'm always very sceptical about politicans rearing their heads when something like this happens

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Just now, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Could you be any more deliberately obtuse? If you can’t differentiate between two different types of opportunity then I’m worried. And if you can’t see that the carrot of a pro spot at, or even being in the pathway for, your local team helps increase the initial numbers of people attracted to and engaged in youth sport then again, I’d be concerned.

 

Of course, you can see those things really, you’re just playing semantics for the crack 

I mean, it’s worked so good so far...oh. 

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1 minute ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Could you be any more deliberately obtuse? If you can’t differentiate between two different types of opportunity then I’m worried. And if you can’t see that the carrot of a pro spot at, or even being in the pathway for, your local team helps increase the initial numbers of people attracted to and engaged in youth sport then again, I’d be concerned.

 

Of course, you can see those things really, you’re just playing semantics for the crack 

So you're telling me all the kids in East Hull will stop playing RL because KR don't have an academy any more ?

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12 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

In what way are opportunities limited , are you not allowed to play RL if you haven't been through an academy ?

I don’t know how to tell you this, Gubby, but I’m agreeing with your point of view on this one

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Does anyone have any articles where anyone has properly explained the situation in relation to this issue? Alot of what I've seen reported seems to be based on the emotion of the issue rather based on facts. The words scrapping and funding cuts etc. have been used when describing the decisions. What is the implications for the clubs involved? The academies can still continue can't they?

Sorry for my ignorance, I do think the media reporting and also messaging from the RFL has been pretty poor on this issue. 

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1 minute ago, OriginalMrC said:

Does anyone have any articles where anyone has properly explained the situation in relation to this issue? Alot of what I've seen reported seems to be based on the emotion of the issue rather based on facts. The words scrapping and funding cuts etc. have been used when describing the decisions. What is the implications for the clubs involved? The academies can still continue can't they?

Sorry for my ignorance, I do think the media reporting and also messaging from the RFL has been pretty poor on this issue. 

Not much point trying to run a full time ( Cat 1 ) academy if you cannot play any games against the other ones 

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6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So you're telling me all the kids in East Hull will stop playing RL because KR don't have an academy any more ?

Stop building strawmen to knock down; it’s weak

 

I’m saying that with the removal of the end incentive for a pro club, the pathway won’t receive the same level of investment from that club, so there will be less net funding and activity into the community game which in the long run will act negatively on participation.
 

The views of the Hull community game on this subject are clear, they value what the clubs do and don’t wish to curtail it. They’re worried about the impact this change will have. Participation trends in Hull are upward, and even if they were down (as they are elsewhere), the hypothesis that this is caused by the academy strategy is specious and unsubstantiated 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Stop building strawmen to knock down; it’s weak

 

I’m saying that with the removal of the end incentive for a pro club, the pathway won’t receive the same level of investment from that club, so there will be less net funding and activity into the community game which in the long run will act negatively on participation.
 

The views of the Hull community game on this subject are clear, they value what the clubs do and don’t wish to curtail it. They’re worried about the impact this change will have. Participation trends in Hull are upward, and even if they were down (as they are elsewhere), the hypothesis that this is caused by the academy strategy is specious and unsubstantiated 

 

 

 

 

So that's a no then 

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13 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

I mean, it’s worked so good so far...oh. 

Numbers in Hull are trending up.
 

Regardless, if they were down there are 57 causal factors you’d look at before reducing the effort a pro team makes to engage youth talent in its local community community 

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1 minute ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

It’s a qualified yes with a rationale. You know that, but you’re just being a sarcy dipstick for your own amusement. Well done! 

So you're saying HKR will reduce their investment and engagement in the RL community in Hull because of this ? 

Why ?

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29 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Well, Rimmer just embarrassed himself on Sky with an incompetent attempt to defend their position. Frustrating, but ultimately helpful I think - their argument is clearly a house of cards if that’s the best they can do 

 

As Karl Turner Hull’s MP said today, this issue isn’t going away whether the RFL would like it to or not. Kids’ opportunities being limited by a sport with government funding is not a great look...

 

 

I think Karl’s onto something here. I think my opportunities to be a SL player are being limited buy the RFL not putting Rochdale into SL. 

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8 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Stop building strawmen to knock down; it’s weak

 

I’m saying that with the removal of the end incentive for a pro club, the pathway won’t receive the same level of investment from that club, so there will be less net funding and activity into the community game which in the long run will act negatively on participation.
 

The views of the Hull community game on this subject are clear, they value what the clubs do and don’t wish to curtail it. They’re worried about the impact this change will have. Participation trends in Hull are upward, and even if they were down (as they are elsewhere), the hypothesis that this is caused by the academy strategy is specious and unsubstantiated 

 

 

 

 

Would love to see how  an actual Youth secretary in your part of the woods  reacts to a system that rips out the best of your 14/15/ 16 year olds from the community game and just spits most of them out afterwards ....

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24 minutes ago, del capo said:

Would love to see how  an actual Youth secretary in your part of the woods  reacts to a system that rips out the best of your 14/15/ 16 year olds from the community game and just spits most of them out afterwards ....

If that’s the issue being addressed please explain why there’s no change of strategy/structure for the 9 clubs given licences?

 

There are solutions to that challenge if genuine, likely two broad options: A well-structured farm system with pro clubs’ pathways integrated with the community game, or alternatively a combine model detached from the clubs with a shared talent pool / draft model as the output. Neither are being considered, so I’m sorry no I do not buy it at all - let’s not pretend that’s what is happening here. 

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13 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

If that’s the issue being addressed please explain why there’s no change of strategy/structure for the 9 clubs given licences?

 

There are solutions to that challenge if genuine, likely two broad options: A well-structured farm system with pro clubs’ pathways integrated with the community game, or alternatively a combine model detached from the clubs with a shared talent pool / draft model as the output. Neither are being considered, so I’m sorry no I do not buy it at all - let’s not pretend that’s what is happening here. 

But it is , to try to pull through 1 or 2 players , clubs are having to drag 10 from the community game , that is exactly the point , weren't you listening ?

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Too much of the argument is based on emotion. What percentage of these players who are having "their dreams taken away from them" even make it to professional level anyway? Not every player does, it's nonsense.

As for MPs, I hope he doesn't find out about the very public views, and criminal record, of one member of staff on the Hull KR youth set up, because it doesn't look great.

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1 hour ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Could you be any more deliberately obtuse? If you can’t differentiate between two different types of opportunity then I’m worried. And if you can’t see that the carrot of a pro spot at, or even being in the pathway for, your local team helps increase the initial numbers of people attracted to and engaged in youth sport then again, I’d be concerned.

 

Of course, you can see those things really, you’re just playing semantics for the crack 

I'm not sure I follow the theory that more academies attracts more players to community game.

Kids starting rugby, are not aware of the professional structures and pathways, they just know they want to play rugby and run around a field. If they are inspired by the professionals then it is the first team, their hero's who they wish to emulate.

Should a kid start due to an academy then it's the wrong reasons

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9 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

But it is , to try to pull through 1 or 2 players , clubs are having to drag 10 from the community game , that is exactly the point , weren't you listening ?

You’re just a wind-up merchant mate, it’s dull

 

I clearly explain above how if that is the issue, there are possible solutions. Nothing along those lines has been implemented - unless you’re telling me it’s not an issue in the 8 clubs’ areas where there’s been no change?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

You’re just a wind-up merchant mate, it’s dull

 

I clearly explain above how if that is the issue, there are possible solutions. Nothing along those lines has been implemented - unless you’re telling me it’s not an issue in the 8 clubs’ areas where there’s been no change?

 

 

But those ' solutions ' aren't actually workable ATM , they are something the sport as a whole could look at , just as more engagement , investment and assistance from all of the pro levels into both the community and school parts of the game is needed 

So yes , this isn't really something we want to do , but ATM this is a necessity 

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10 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

I'm not sure I follow the theory that more academies attracts more players to community game.

Kids starting rugby, are not aware of the professional structures and pathways, they just know they want to play rugby and run around a field. If they are inspired by the professionals then it is the first team, their hero's who they wish to emulate.

Should a kid start due to an academy then it's the wrong reasons

It’s not direct like that. My point is that pro clubs’ investment in community programmes in their various forms has a positive impact on spreading the word about our game, and aiding participation. If you break the incentive link for the club (because the best kids will switch to your near neighbours with an exclusive academy), you break part of the rationale for that investment. Less investment, less stimulus into the top of the pipeline. Bear in mind most of this funding overwhelmingly comes from owners (not the RFL), of businesses that run at a loss. 

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