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Thu 17 Jun: SL: St Helens v Warrington Wolves KO 19:45 (TV)


Who will win?  

28 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win?

    • St Helens
      24
    • Warrington Wolves
      4

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  • Poll closed on 17/06/21 at 19:15

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4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Nobody would have thought anything of it last night until it was highlighted over and over again by Saints. 

Look at the tackles where Ratch, Currie and King went down, they were all very very heavy tackles. Only they will know whether they played them up.

King is getting stick for playing injured then playing on, but Walmsley had a lot of treatment on his knee and then played on. RL is a tough game, players will get hurt, particularly late on as fatigue sets in, maybe Woolf should focus on his team, although you could argue he has done a great job of steering criticism from him and them with this. 

Would have thought it was pretty clear to anyone tbh but we’ll have to agree to disagree. 
Woolf should absolutely focus on Saints, there’s a fair bit of work to do.

Price seems to have worked Saints out, as has been referred to on here already, Woolf must respond to that by coming up with greater variation in play. 

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4 minutes ago, Waynebennettswinger said:

Would have thought it was pretty clear to anyone tbh but we’ll have to agree to disagree. 
Woolf should absolutely focus on Saints, there’s a fair bit of work to do.

Price seems to have worked Saints out, as has been referred to on here already, Woolf must respond to that by coming up with greater variation in play. 

The 'incidents'  were very minor parts of the game, with only King's looking anything like gamesmanship. But the losing coach has made it a main focus, instead of his team. 

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The 'incidents'  were very minor parts of the game, with only King's looking anything like gamesmanship. But the losing coach has made it a main focus, instead of his team. 

highlighting the king "incident" in the last ten minutes allows them to distract away from more important issues, like walmsley deciding the play the ball even though he wasn't tackled in our half.

 

Dumb play, dumb decisions.

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Just now, Dave T said:

The 'incidents'  were very minor parts of the game, with only King's looking anything like gamesmanship. But the losing coach has made it a main focus, instead of his team. 

Ok, to be perfectly honest I didn’t watch the post match interviews and haven’t read anything attributed to Woolf yet. If that is true then I guess that he has made it the main focus ‘globally’ to detract from what was a poor performance. We’ll never know what he said to the Saints players but if that is or was his main focus in the dressing room then I would be worried as Saints weren’t at the races at all yesterday regardless of any incident. Truthfully I don’t think Saints have put together anything more than a solid 40 minutes at a time this year, maybe that will change as the season goes on but there is much work to be done. Sometimes there has to be an acceptance that they weren’t allowed to play their normal game by a stern defence or effective game plan. That’s up to Saints to do something about that. Yesterday Saints attack was battered by Warrington’s defence. The problem was there was no variation when Wire closed them down each set.  Normally you would expect Saints to score more than 6 but yesterday Warrington really outsmarted Saints. Credit is due for that,  and although the players carried out the game plan, Price and the coaching team deserve most credit. 

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7 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

You come across as a very bitter person from the post I quoted, which is unusual for you, but we have that effect on your club. 

Your club have been very charitable to mine in recent years, as I say, certainly no bitterness. 

It's important to acknowledge that it's easy to misread the tone of a post. It was a lighthearted pee take around the recent injury controversies in Saints games. Although I do find the booing from some fans tasteless. 

But it's all good, I'm happy with the win. 

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Just now, Dave T said:

Your club have been very charitable to mine in recent years, as I say, certainly no bitterness. 

It's important to acknowledge that it's easy to misread the tone of a post. It was a lighthearted pee take around the recent injury controversies in Saints games. Although I do find the booing from some fans tasteless. 

But it's all good, I'm happy with the win. 

When you’ve won the lot time and time again, it’s time to be charitable to those less fortunate. 

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45 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Nobody would have thought anything of it last night until it was highlighted over and over again by Saints. 

Look at the tackles where Ratch, Currie and King went down, they were all very very heavy tackles. Only they will know whether they played them up.

King is getting stick for playing injured then playing on, but Walmsley had a lot of treatment on his knee and then played on. RL is a tough game, players will get hurt, particularly late on as fatigue sets in, maybe Woolf should focus on his team, although you could argue he has done a great job of steering criticism from him and them with this. 

Whilst I instinctively side with Warrington over Saints I have to say you did go through a spell a couple of years ago when Westwood or Hill seemed to go to ground conveniently right in the middle of the defensive or attacking line at a moment amazingly coincidental to when Warrington needed a break in play.

So there may be some legacy prejudice here - well from non Saints fans anyway. The latter seem just predisposed to bitterness unfortunately.

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21 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

When you’ve won the lot time and time again, it’s time to be charitable to those less fortunate. 

I agree, tell that to your chairman, coach and boo boys 👍

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21 minutes ago, M j M said:

Whilst I instinctively side with Warrington over Saints I have to say you did go through a spell a couple of years ago when Westwood or Hill seemed to go to ground conveniently right in the middle of the defensive or attacking line at a moment amazingly coincidental to when Warrington needed a break in play.

So there may be some legacy prejudice here - well from non Saints fans anyway. The latter seem just predisposed to bitterness unfortunately.

I have no issues with my teams level of gamesmanship tbh. Teams do what they have to as far as I'm concerned. We can't all be saints I suppose. 

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18 hours ago, Barry Badrinath said:

so the king issue, it was him that took the ball up from the restart, got tackled and his leg went sideways under the weight of walmsley tackling him, he then drops the ball that lms go's running upfield with.

 

He was in sufficient pain that walmsey was really concerned and checks on him.

 

i've no idea how he got back as sky never showed it, however its in players dna to get back in defence, as we used to see players with head knocks. regardless of whether their leg is hanging off

 

 

But King then gets up runs 40 yards to his goal line before going down to stop play, if he was genuinely injured seriously he would have stayed were the injury occurred. 🤔 but play wouldn't have been stopped then would it. No other explanation but Gamesmanship, as others have said being made to set out for a set or two will soon separate the genuinely injured from those exploiting the rules to reset their defensive line when under pressure. Funny how all the wire injuries seemed to happen when they were under pressure on their own line. Just a coincidence??

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26 minutes ago, hullste said:

But King then gets up runs 40 yards to his goal line before going down to stop play, if he was genuinely injured seriously he would have stayed were the injury occurred. 🤔 but play wouldn't have been stopped then would it. No other explanation but Gamesmanship, as others have said being made to set out for a set or two will soon separate the genuinely injured from those exploiting the rules to reset their defensive line when under pressure. Funny how all the wire injuries seemed to happen when they were under pressure on their own line. Just a coincidence??

Its not just a Warrington thing there are examples from most teams hull included were players go down to slow the games down and lets be honest if England play Australia in the final and Shaun wane wins using tactics to slow down the play we will all be cheering. 

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1 hour ago, hullste said:

But King then gets up runs 40 yards to his goal line before going down to stop play, if he was genuinely injured seriously he would have stayed were the injury occurred. 🤔 but play wouldn't have been stopped then would it. No other explanation but Gamesmanship, as others have said being made to set out for a set or two will soon separate the genuinely injured from those exploiting the rules to reset their defensive line when under pressure. Funny how all the wire injuries seemed to happen when they were under pressure on their own line. Just a coincidence??

Aside from Toby King, which other "injuries" occurred?

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9 minutes ago, Barry Badrinath said:

Aside from Toby King, which other "injuries" occurred?

Ratchford. But early in the game. Makes me smile when reading fans moaning about injury stoppages when there own teams have been guilty of it, remember LMS regularly going down when a drop out was conceded you could bank on it., and many clubs have done it. 

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2 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Ratchford. But early in the game. Makes me smile when reading fans moaning about injury stoppages when there own teams have been guilty of it, remember LMS regularly going down when a drop out was conceded you could bank on it., and many clubs have done it. 

That was early In the game and while they were taking a kick at goal.

Hardly stopping the game.

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I'm just watching the last 20 minutes back.

 

63m. Lms drops the ball playing it. On the wire 40.

65m makinson takes a bomb, stolen by King 1 on 1, saints 20.

66m, matautia drops the ball, saints 20.

69m King goes down with a leg(2nd time in the game) injury, after taking the ball up wire 30, set continues 

70 minutes,  last tackle saints scrappily keep it alive with no direction, knock on at the wire 10.

73m ratch catches a ball on thr goal line near the corner flag, is tackled and then Morgan Knowles shoves him over the touch line, penalty  give 

73m King takes the hit up from the restart, tackled by walmsley around the legs, 2 up top, his left knee bends in an L Shape,drops the ball, lms runs up field tackle a metre short. Walmsley showing concern for the visible pain King is in.

Sky don't show how King  gets back to the line. Ref calls time off. 

74m penalty to saints, High tackle 5 metres out.

75m, set restart, 10m out wire touched ball in tackle, saints don't know where to ptb.

76m lomax throws a forward pass to makinson.

77m welsby gets dragged into touch wire 25m.

78m currie drops the ball as he lands heavily on his elbow/shoulder, on the wire 40

78m walmsley loses the ball, trying to do a voluntary tackle/ptb wire 30

 

Loads of convenient injuries there, plenty of good warrington defence, plenty of clunky saints attack.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, hullste said:

But King then gets up runs 40 yards to his goal line before going down to stop play, if he was genuinely injured seriously he would have stayed were the injury occurred. 🤔 but play wouldn't have been stopped then would it. No other explanation but Gamesmanship, as others have said being made to set out for a set or two will soon separate the genuinely injured from those exploiting the rules to reset their defensive line when under pressure. Funny how all the wire injuries seemed to happen when they were under pressure on their own line. Just a coincidence??

King got injured on the 20m line. Why would he get up and run 40 yards? 

Ratchford got injured after a stoppage in play when Saints were taking the two, Currie was injured after a stop in play on the 40m line. 

Your recollection of events is very dodgy tbh. 

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On 18/06/2021 at 10:54, Saint Toppy said:

I have to admit I seriously considered giving up my season ticket when we had Cunningham as coach, I just wasn't enjoying watching the games anymore regardless of whether we won or lost. While i'm not quite at that point yet, if Woolf stays beyond this year then I do think i'll be having a serious think about whether to renew or not for 2022 or to just pick & choose to buy tickets for individual games.

So far this year we've played a dozen league & cup games and I can only think of the league game against Hull where the team has played anything like attractive rugby that i've enjoyed watching.

Thats exactly what we did / do

 

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On 19/06/2021 at 09:20, hullste said:

if he was genuinely injured seriously he would have stayed were the injury occurred. 🤔

 

On 19/06/2021 at 16:17, Dave T said:

King got injured on the 20m line. Why would he get up and run 40 yards? 

 


Toby King with confirmed medial ligament damage from that tackle. Probably didn’t help that he stayed on and played the full 80. Not sure how long he’s out for.

Hopefully Ratchford’s fake kidney hasn’t suffered too badly from Roby’s fake kneecap as well.

Also, not sure whether Woolf will be pulled about his after-match comments but they may well have been fake too.

Edited by Cheshire Setter
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On 19/06/2021 at 10:34, ELBOWSEYE said:

Ratchford. But early in the game. Makes me smile when reading fans moaning about injury stoppages when there own teams have been guilty of it, remember LMS regularly going down when a drop out was conceded you could bank on it., and many clubs have done it. 

He did indeed and the RFL introduced a new rule with a time limit on drop outs and that put an end to it for LMS and everyone else doing it.

Hence why a new rule to stop the King type of 'acting / gamesmanship' from happening again is probably needed. 

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St.Helens - The Home of Rugby Champions

Saints Men's team - Triple Champions & Double Winners ; Saints Women's team - Treble Winners ; Thatto Heath - National Conference Champions

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The KIng incident aside, I don't think there was anything much to complain about. The refereeing of the 10m was poor, and affected the game as a spectacle, but didn't favour one side over the other.

The fact is that Saints were poor in attack, and dire to watch, as they have been for most of the season so far. Compare that with Cas v Wire in the challenge cup semifinal. One can only hope that was the game that any potential RL converts might have been watching.

And to even things up, Wigan have been pretty eye-bleeding all season too.

SL is becoming less and less a spectacle for the spectator who isn't a RL die-hard. I've no idea what needs to be done to sort that though, so just ignore me.

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