Sat 3rd - Sun 4th Jul: The Betfred Championship Match Thread

[Hopping Mad]

8 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

It's not just this season, they've carried on where they left off in 2020. 

That's a fair point. York had cause to be grateful for COVID curtailing the 2020 season.

[Barley Mow]

Halifax drop goal with 5 seconds left - now lead 17 - 16

[JonM]

Halifax 17 Widnes 16 FT - drop goal for Liam Harris to win the game in the last minute.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

2 minutes ago, Hopping Mad said:

That's a fair point. York had cause to be grateful for COVID curtailing the 2020 season.

They also had a lot of close games in 2019, winning by far the most of them. Now you could argue that could be a sign of resilience but close games are often won on the back of a lucky bounce or error and if they'd gone the other way..... 

[Chris Taylor]

Halifax have won it, by the looks of it 17 16.

[doc]

Blast! 

[AB Knight]

23 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

They also had a lot of close games in 2019, winning by far the most of them. Now you could argue that could be a sign of resilience but close games are often won on the back of a lucky bounce or error and if they'd gone the other way..... 

I worked it out the other week, something like 15 of York’s 21 wins in the league and cup that season were by less than 8 or 10 points. 
 

I actually think the tide turned towards the end of 2019, we were very lethargic in our win at Halifax then got stuffed by Toulouse and Fev.

Hindsight is a great thing but we lost some seasoned championship players and others who could provide a spark - people like Josh Jordan Robert’s, Brad Hey might not have been the most talented players but they bent their backs and put the effort in each match, then you’d have Liam Harris and Connor Robinson in the halves who could conjure up a bit of magic.
 

Not all our ex SL players have been poor (Dixon and Atkins have stood up well) but some just play like it’s a game of touch and pass with their mates in the park. One ex SL winger was absolutely shocking today as he has been for a good 4/5 matches now but Ford seems reluctant to drop him.
 

I admire James Ford, he’s a very loyal guy who’s stuck with York for a while when he no doubt had better offers elsewhere. However his loyalty to some of the underperforming players will, IMO, be his downfall unless we can have a turnaround in performances very soon.

[The Blues Ox]

I enjoyed that game. Not the sort of game that we tend to win so to sneak it late on was pretty pleasing. At 12-0 down after giving a couple of soft tries it was hard to see any way back and despite dominating for long periods its just not the sort of conditions where you can be chasing a game. Fair play to Widnes as the did play the conditions well but they looked out on their feet pretty much from the 30 minute mark so I guess they can take some credit for still having a chance to win it with a minute left. You just had a feeling after they missed a drop goal with 1 minute left that with 7 tackles we would end up comfortably in drop goal range which we did and superb composure from Harris to nick it.

 

[Chris Taylor]

2 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

I enjoyed that game. Not the sort of game that we tend to win so to sneak it late on was pretty pleasing. At 12-0 down after giving a couple of soft tries it was hard to see any way back and despite dominating for long periods its just not the sort of conditions where you can be chasing a game. Fair play to Widnes as the did play the conditions well but they looked out on their feet pretty much from the 30 minute mark so I guess they can take some credit for still having a chance to win it with a minute left. You just had a feeling after they missed a drop goal with 1 minute left that with 7 tackles we would end up comfortably in drop goal range which we did and superb composure from Harris to nick it.

 

Great win for you, that'll give you some confidence to really kick this season on. 

[The Blues Ox]

18 minutes ago, Chris Taylor said:

Great win for you, that'll give you some confidence to really kick this season on. 

Aye two games on the bounce now where we have been poor in the first half and managed to come away with the points. Its very un-Halifax like. 

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

46 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Aye two games on the bounce now where we have been poor in the first half and managed to come away with the points. Its very un-Halifax like. 

Were as being poor in the second half and managing to chuck away the points is very Widnes like.

[The Blues Ox]

27 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Catching up with this and it all looks very rough for York, who could be just one win above the job when the games even up. Looking at their fixtures I´ve got York getting maybe 4 more wins, so they are really in a relegation fight now. 

Newcastle should pick up enough now to be safe and is a statement of intent for next year. Likewise Widnes, who will be annoyed with that loss but finish the season with easier games after the next months tough run in.

Surprisingly good win for Bulls and Keyes making it happen. There´s a chance London or Batley brick it but I think the top six will stay as we are until the end of the season. Mind you, if York beat London (a massive ask) and Newcastle knock over Dewsbury next week, we could see the Thunder sniffing around the playoffs. 

This season looking good, next season looks better. 

Hard to disagree with much of that. York should just about win enough games to stay up but once again it just shows that spending a load of cash on SL players coming to the end of their careers really is not the way to go about things at this level. We now have a few leagues within th league.

I think Haven can just go in to the York, Oldham, Swinton battle for relegation but they have done pretty well so far this season. I don't see Dewsbury or Sheffield having enough to make the top 6 but at the moment they are in that group. I think that it will be Batley that just miss out and Widnes just make it. Just looking at Batley's fixtures they look to have the toughest run in of any of their rivals. Going on the fixtures remaining it should be a straight shootout between Bradford and Fax for 3rd place and then the top 2 where at some point Toulouse might have to play some home games over here as at the moment they are likely to only get 14 games in out of the 16 required but their cancelled London game will count so might just be one game they can pick.

[crashmon]

I'm not sure London will make the 6. I know in theory what is happening off the field should not impact on field performances, but with the uncertaincy right now (will they / won't they move to Plough lane, will they be able to stay full time etc), this has to have an impact on mental approach, especially as most London players are Acadamy kids right now.

Unless performances change, I see only winning 5 more games (York H, Oldham, Whitehaven, Sheffield, Swinton). And I would not be surprised if they lose one of the Whitehaven / Sheffield / Swinton games as well.  I think Newcastle will beat London in Newcastle, and if one of Widnes or Newcastle go on a run, London could easily fall out of the 6 here.

[The Phantom Horseman]

2 things I'd say are true about this season

1) The overall quality of the division outside the top two, having been on an upward trend for years, seems to be down to me.
2) This mainly seems down to lack of squad depth. Several teams - notably Bradford, London and Widnes - are ok when they can field their best 17 but struggle mightily once they lose a few players.

Halifax are arguably the team amongst those fighting for 3rd with the most depth - they don't have many stars but several players outside their nominal best 17 are of similar quality to the starters - so they might be favourites to finish third, but injuries (and probably Covid) are going to have a big say.

[The Blues Ox]

22 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

2 things I'd say are true about this season

1) The overall quality of the division outside the top two, having been on an upward trend for years, seems to be down to me.
2) This mainly seems down to lack of squad depth. Several teams - notably Bradford, London and Widnes - are ok when they can field their best 17 but struggle mightily once they lose a few players.

Halifax are arguably the team amongst those fighting for 3rd with the most depth - they don't have many stars but several players outside their nominal bets 17 are of similar quality to the starters - so they might be favourites to finish third, but injuries (and probably Covid) are going to have a big say.

Id agree with that. The squad depth is certainly hurting teams but it were no surprise to see this with teams anticipating a drop in funding next season and teams likely preparing for that, also the loan/DR system this year because of covid is clearly hitting teams hard as well with a lot of SL teams struggling themselves and unable to even release players who probably are not even ready to play at Championship level instead having to name them in their squads to make up the numbers.

Injuries are going to play a massive part in the remainder of the season and most teams will be looking forward to a break in a couple of weeks times to get some numbers back, Fax managed to get 20 names in their squad this week but were very clear that some of them probably should not have played yesterday. I believe Batley were the same as well and are picking up some injuries that they simply can't afford. The ironic thing for Fax in losing one of our playmkers for most of the season is that it gave a lad who I think is our best fullback the chance to play that position with Grix moving in to the halves and it seems to have kick started our season.

Credit to Fev who have been hammered by injuries not to slip up yet although it must be frustrating to see their main rival only playing every other week and been able to stay fresh.

[Wakefield Ram]

2 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

Id agree with that. The squad depth is certainly hurting teams but it were no surprise to see this with teams anticipating a drop in funding next season and teams likely preparing for that, also the loan/DR system this year because of covid is clearly hitting teams hard as well with a lot of SL teams struggling themselves and unable to even release players who probably are not even ready to play at Championship level instead having to name them in their squads to make up the numbers.

Injuries are going to play a massive part in the remainder of the season and most teams will be looking forward to a break in a couple of weeks times to get some numbers back, Fax managed to get 20 names in their squad this week but were very clear that some of them probably should not have played yesterday. I believe Batley were the same as well and are picking up some injuries that they simply can't afford. The ironic thing for Fax in losing one of our playmkers for most of the season is that it gave a lad who I think is our best fullback the chance to play that position with Grix moving in to the halves and it seems to have kick started our season.

Credit to Fev who have been hammered by injuries not to slip up yet although it must be frustrating to see their main rival only playing every other week and been able to stay fresh.

A combination of Covid and no DR has hit many teams. Dewsbury have been down to 16 fit players a few weeks and we are not alone in that.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

On 04/07/2021 at 17:50, AB Knight said:

I worked it out the other week, something like 15 of York’s 21 wins in the league and cup that season were by less than 8 or 10 points. 
 

I actually think the tide turned towards the end of 2019, we were very lethargic in our win at Halifax then got stuffed by Toulouse and Fev.

Hindsight is a great thing but we lost some seasoned championship players and others who could provide a spark - people like Josh Jordan Robert’s, Brad Hey might not have been the most talented players but they bent their backs and put the effort in each match, then you’d have Liam Harris and Connor Robinson in the halves who could conjure up a bit of magic.
 

Not all our ex SL players have been poor (Dixon and Atkins have stood up well) but some just play like it’s a game of touch and pass with their mates in the park. One ex SL winger was absolutely shocking today as he has been for a good 4/5 matches now but Ford seems reluctant to drop him.
 

I admire James Ford, he’s a very loyal guy who’s stuck with York for a while when he no doubt had better offers elsewhere. However his loyalty to some of the underperforming players will, IMO, be his downfall unless we can have a turnaround in performances very soon.

I had a quick look after posting and counted 11 games with 6pts or less in it (won 9, drew 1, lost 1) and a further 2 with 7pts in it (w1 L1). 

[The Phantom Horseman]

It's worth saying that York did actually look ok in the early stages of this season. They went down by one score in a pre-season friendly against Hull, they won easily at Sheffield (I watched that game and they looked very good against a Sheffield team that also started the season well). They won at London in the Cup, they only lost by 15 points against Toulouse which looks a much better result now than it did then, and they weren't disgraced against Wigan in the Cup.

But they got a few injuries (I don't think O'Hagan was ever right after the first couple of games), had to switch the team around, and seem to have lost all shape and confidence. What's worse, they've averaged nearly 30 points per game over the last six games, and you aren't going to win many games with that kind of defensive record.

[JonM]

On 04/07/2021 at 22:07, Jill Halfpenny fan said:

Were as being poor in the second half and managing to chuck away the points is very Widnes like.

After two wins in Yorkshire in 5 years, don't think any of us expected to get two in the space of a week. Having now watched the video of the game, I think the score slightly flattered us - interception try and a couple of soft penalties made it close.

[The Blues Ox]

4 minutes ago, JonM said:

After two wins in Yorkshire in 5 years, don't think any of us expected to get two in the space of a week. Having now watched the video of the game, I think the score slightly flattered us - interception try and a couple of soft penalties made it close.

Im biased but I agree with that. Obviously our defence has been great for a number of weeks now but when I saw the rain come down like that I feared it would be a really tight game and then to find ourselves down by 12 early on in those conditions it were tough to see a way back. Widnes first try was a superb bit of opportunism though spotting the fullback joining the line like that and been able to take advantage. I think what Widnes can take out of it is the number of sets they defended on their line, I mean the build up to the interception I think they had already done 18 and then seemed to defend the rest of the first half. The obvious downside was they were out on their feet early in the second half but its that sort of defence that can galvanise a team.

I still think with the run ins it will be Widnes that get in instead of Batley but with London looking like they could fall apart there may be a couple of spots available.

[AB Knight]

13 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

I had a quick look after posting and counted 11 games with 6pts or less in it (won 9, drew 1, lost 1) and a further 2 with 7pts in it (w1 L1). 

Yep just had a look, of our 21 competitive wins that season 15 were by 10 points or less. Such fine margins.

I think York Knights and supporters need to acknowledge where we are at which is genuinely looking like a relegation battle. I know we are doing it tough with injuries but criticising the form on the pitch doesn’t make us unreal supporters. It seems there’s too much ‘we were good in 2017 and 2018, look how far we’ve come’ which disguises the fact since our 24-23 win at Leigh in September 2019 we’ve probably played well on 4 or 5 occasions. By played well I mean the team getting a rating of say 8 out of 10. I think that’s at best 5 good performances out of 25. 1 win in our past 6 games, 166 points conceded. If we are happy with that standard because we’ve come so far in a short space of time then I’m afraid it’s very unusual for a club which is very ambitious.

[Keep The Faith]

23 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

Id agree with that. The squad depth is certainly hurting teams but it were no surprise to see this with teams anticipating a drop in funding next season and teams likely preparing for that, also the loan/DR system this year because of covid is clearly hitting teams hard as well with a lot of SL teams struggling themselves and unable to even release players who probably are not even ready to play at Championship level instead having to name them in their squads to make up the numbers.

Injuries are going to play a massive part in the remainder of the season and most teams will be looking forward to a break in a couple of weeks times to get some numbers back, Fax managed to get 20 names in their squad this week but were very clear that some of them probably should not have played yesterday. I believe Batley were the same as well and are picking up some injuries that they simply can't afford. The ironic thing for Fax in losing one of our playmkers for most of the season is that it gave a lad who I think is our best fullback the chance to play that position with Grix moving in to the halves and it seems to have kick started our season.

Credit to Fev who have been hammered by injuries not to slip up yet although it must be frustrating to see their main rival only playing every other week and been able to stay fresh.

Batley had players out with illness & slight knocks which I expect them to be fit in the next two weeks against Toulouse or Dewsbury