Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)

[Jughead]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

I'd rather see the full interview rather than an edited 30 second clip (maybe there is one that I haven't seen). It is quite clear they are taking about various players eligibility and we are only seeing a small part of that. Even the start is a carryover of a discussion about another player, and this is very important for context, but is something I haven't seen.

Up to a few weeks ago Young had declared for Jamaica. We even had posters on this board adamant that it was a waste of time discussing him for England because he had picked Jamaica. Hemmings seems to be acknowledging this and the fact that Young had other options, and his either comment is relevant to whoever they are discussing previously which we don't see. As far as I'm aware there has never been any debate about Farnworth playing for anyone else and I think the English as you or I comment is more regarding him being born and bred in England and not just an Australian playing courtesy of an English grandparent.

I suspect this is more just clumsy and poor terminology on Hemmings part but I'd like to see the full interview to be sure.

Questioning Young’s “Englishness” is appalling and the language and wording used by Hemmings is shocking. As you say, there’s a story to Young picking England over Jamaica that could and should have been discussed very, very differently. 

Ultimately, the discussion is born from Wane’s comments when he got the job about “Englishness” and that’s what is being discussed. At the time that was poor wording from Wane. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, burnleywelsh said:

Not too sure about the rules where kids can play. But with there being no ‘top class’ junior clubs nearby, he had to travel. I’m not sure either, why he went to Newton. It could be, in my opinion, that he was under a lot of pressure from Wigan to be involved in their programme given their strong connection with St Pats. So off to Newton he went. His professional pathway was always intended to be the Australian route despite SL offers.

Doesn't Newton fall under Saints' remit? 

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Jughead said:

Questioning Young’s “Englishness” is appalling and the language and wording used by Hemmings is shocking. As you say, there’s a story to Young picking England over Jamaica that could and should have been discussed very, very differently. 

Ultimately, the discussion is born from Wane’s comments when he got the job about “Englishness” and that’s what is being discussed. At the time that was poor wording from Wane. 

As I said I'd rather see the full interview, it is important for context. It is quite clear this is about international eligibility and who players could play for. When Hemmings refers to either in the first 10 seconds of the clip then it is important to know what was said preceding that. We don't know. I'd just prefer to see the full video to make a sound judgment before I get my pitch folk out.

Again, I suspect this is more clumsy and poor terminology from Hemmings. We saw that enough when he was last broadcasting at Sky and that was years ago now. I doubt he has got better in that time.

 

[Dave T]

18 minutes ago, Damien said:

I'd rather see the full interview rather than an edited 30 second clip (maybe there is one that I haven't seen). It is quite clear they are taking about various players eligibility and we are only seeing a small part of that. Even the start is a carryover of a discussion about another player, and this is very important for context, but is something I haven't seen.

Up to a few weeks ago Young had declared for Jamaica. We even had posters on this board adamant that it was a waste of time discussing him for England because he had picked Jamaica. Hemmings seems to be acknowledging this and the fact that Young had other options, and his either comment is relevant to whoever they are discussing previously which we don't see. As far as I'm aware there has never been any debate about Farnworth playing for anyone else and I think the English as you or I comment is more regarding him being born and bred in England and not just an Australian playing courtesy of an English grandparent.

I suspect this is more just clumsy and poor terminology on Hemmings part but I'd like to see the full interview to be sure.

I think there are some fair points there, and I expect Hemmings was maybe thinking along those lines, but there is some dodgy language there and a professional, modern presenter would be aware of his words and how they could be taken. 

Ultimately, a black player born in England's selection was questioned, and the use of 'as English as you or I' for Farnsworth in comparison is very poor. 

[Jughead]

7 minutes ago, Damien said:

As I said I'd rather see the full interview, it is important for context. It is quite clear this is about international eligibility and who players could play for. When Hemmings refers to either in the first 10 seconds of the clip then it is important to know what was said preceding that. We don't know. I'd just prefer to see the full video to make a sound judgment before I get my pitch folk out.

Again, I suspect this is more clumsy and poor terminology from Hemmings. We saw that enough when he was last broadcasting at Sky and that was years ago now. I doubt he has got better in that time.

 

I don’t know if you can now, seeing as Betfred have deleted the video. Someone might have the whole thing on social media somewhere but it’s certainly caused offence and/or unrest at Betfred. 

[Damien]

17 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think there are some fair points there, and I expect Hemmings was maybe thinking along those lines, but there is some dodgy language there and a professional, modern presenter would be aware of his words and how they could be taken. 

Ultimately, a black player born in England's selection was questioned, and the use of 'as English as you or I' for Farnsworth in comparison is very poor. 

Well, that's probably the issue. I'm not sure what age Hemmings is but we know he is getting on and has been retired for some years. The whole area is a minefield and it is very easy to cause offence when you don't mean to. Hemmings is probably a couple of generations away from younger presenters who would be much more aware and much better trained for this kind of thing.

[Dave T]

35 minutes ago, Damien said:

Well, that's probably the issue. I'm not sure what age Hemmings is but we know he is getting on and has been retired for some years. The whole area is a minefield and it is very easy to cause offence when you don't mean to. Hemmings is probably a couple of generations away from younger presenters who would be much more aware and much better trained for this kind of thing.

Agreed, and that's sort of my point, he is out of touch, a dinosaur. 

But when we are talking nationality there needs to be an appreciation that it ha sthe potential to be controversial. 

[hunsletgreenandgold]

Yeah for me the first thing that jumps out is the awful editing. Was this video actually put out by Betfred like that or has George Clarke made this edited version? Choice of wording was poor based on that snippet but if the wider context was Eddie going through all players who either weren't born here and/or have declared for other nations previously, then to me Dom Young is part of that discussion. My hope is that Eddie was shocked Herbie had an English accent knowing how long he's been in is Aus and was more trying to separate him out from say Radley - hence is 'English as you or I' comment, opposed to that edit suggesting that made him different to Young. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by hunsletgreenandgold

[Big Picture]

6 hours ago, Damien said:

Well, that's probably the issue. I'm not sure what age Hemmings is but we know he is getting on and has been retired for some years. The whole area is a minefield and it is very easy to cause offence when you don't mean to. Hemmings is probably a couple of generations away from younger presenters who would be much more aware and much better trained for this kind of thing.

He's well up there now, in his seventies.  He gave his age as 69 in this 2019 interview, and of course he's three years older now.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Big Picture

[Just Browny]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

 

But when we are talking nationality there needs to be an appreciation that it ha sthe potential to be controversial. 

Well exactly and there's no reason to be talking about nationality. Neither Hemmings nor Wane should be setting themselves up as some sort of Border Force officer on camera checking people's credentials. They are in the squad, now let's talk rugby.

[Maximus Decimus]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

I think there are some fair points there, and I expect Hemmings was maybe thinking along those lines, but there is some dodgy language there and a professional, modern presenter would be aware of his words and how they could be taken. 

Ultimately, a black player born in England's selection was questioned, and the use of 'as English as you or I' for Farnsworth in comparison is very poor. 

I personally think there should be benefit of the doubt given in instances where we know the people. Is it really likely that Eddie Hemmings didn't view Offiah, Hanley or Henderson Gill as less English than him and was willing to verbalise it on camera?

It's obviously clumsy, worded badly and was rightly taken down, but I think a more likely scenario was one where he was referring to the fact that Young had split loyalties, and not playing for England was an option whereas this wasn't the case with Farnworth.

[Maximus Decimus]

27 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Well exactly and there's no reason to be talking about nationality. Neither Hemmings nor Wane should be setting themselves up as some sort of Border Force officer on camera checking people's credentials. They are in the squad, now let's talk rugby.

In recent years, the issue of England's use of heritage players has been a real talking point. That's because it's seen as a reflection of the state of the game here.

Whereas previously using heritage players like Scotland and Ireland do, was something we didn't need to do, we now do look to the NRL to bolster some areas. This is slightly embarrassing for the game over here so it is a legitimate area of discussion.

That said, it's not strictly new and we've had at least a decade of it being used sporadically. It's a bit like how the whole heritage thing was huge in the 2000WC but is barely mentioned at all now.

[Chris22]

When I read about this, I thought it was much of nothing.

It's legitimate to point out that Don Young is eligible for two nations. I suspected that Hemmings may have poorly expressed that point, with the view that "it's great he's chosen to represent England".

But then I watched it. "He's not English in the strictest sense of the word", "I've listened to Herbie Farnworth and he's as English as you or I".

We have lots of players eligible for two nations, in fact, several who have represented two nations. I do not think those with heritage from other UK nations, such as Knowles or McIlorum, would have had such comments made (i.e. that they are not strictly English).

Excruciating to watch.

[RP London]

in a more general RL World cup way: i've just driven past Bramall Lane and they were starting to put up the lamp post flags for the RL World cup.. getting exciting now!

[StandOffHalf]

Very unfortunate and clumsy comments from Hemmings.

Edited October 6, 2022 by StandOffHalf

[Maximus Decimus]

2 hours ago, Chris22 said:

When I read about this, I thought it was much of nothing.

It's legitimate to point out that Don Young is eligible for two nations. I suspected that Hemmings may have poorly expressed that point, with the view that "it's great he's chosen to represent England".

But then I watched it. "He's not English in the strictest sense of the word", "I've listened to Herbie Farnworth and he's as English as you or I".

We have lots of players eligible for two nations, in fact, several who have represented two nations. I do not think those with heritage from other UK nations, such as Knowles or McIlorum, would have had such comments made (i.e. that they are not strictly English).

Excruciating to watch.

Has it been taken down or can I see it?

[gingerjon]

 

[Chris22]

 

 

[Chris22]

15 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

 

Correct to release a statement. Although the word 're-edited' suggests, falsely, that the clip was doctored, in my view.

[RigbyLuger]

2 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

Correct to release a statement. Although the word 're-edited' suggests, falsely, that the clip was doctored, in my view.

Very much so. Almost looking to cast the blame on to someone else.

[Chris22]

28 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Has it been taken down or can I see it?

 

[hunsletgreenandgold]

25 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

Correct to release a statement. Although the word 're-edited' suggests, falsely, that the clip was doctored, in my view.

21 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

Very much so. Almost looking to cast the blame on to someone else.

Not doctored, but I think it's pretty clear it was re-edited. The video was a snippet where the start had clearly been missed off and the fact Eddie says 'not English in the strictest sense either' infers somebody else had been discussed prior (Radley, Oledzki, McIlorum?) Also after Wane says 'you know lives in Wakefield with his mum..edit..get success' is another edit to make it appear Eddie then moved onto how he viewed Farnworth in direct comparison to Young. So i think it's fair that Betfred pointed out that isn't the full video that now seemingly no longer exists. As I said originally, it's clumsy and ill judged to word it how he did, but I do think this edit has misrepresented what was clearly a far wider conversation about eligibility. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by hunsletgreenandgold

[Chrispmartha]

Why are they banging on about eligibility anyway, it’s a week out from the start of the WC, all the players picked are eligible and that should  be the end of it.

Wane should have just said exactly that.

[graveyard johnny]

Eddie is a typical example of the modern enemy of the state in 2022 Britain - Hes -white - male -straight- wrong side of 50 -worked and paid tax all his life - lived by and respected the law of the land and worst of all has still got an opinion - there's no place for these sorts in our society anymore - lock them up and throw away the key - the lot of em 

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

Eddie is a typical example of the modern enemy of the state in 2022 Britain - Hes -white - male -straight- wrong side of 50 -worked and paid tax all his life - lived by and respected the law of the land and worst of all has still got an opinion - there's no place for these sorts in our society anymore - lock them up and throw away the key - the lot of em 

Yes. Definitely.