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League Restructure Thread (Merged Threads)


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My first decision as new RFL dictator will be a guarantee of no structure changes from now for a decade. 

When will people see that all this constant changing stuff drives negative perceptions of the sport and disenchantment? The notion that we are still discussing changes which will be implemented from the start of next season is ridiculous. The rules and rewards teams built their 2021 squads around should never be changed after that season started.

The current structure is perfectly sound and rational for the size and nature of our sport. Just leave it alone, stop sacrificing bits of the sport's credibility in the name of mindless tinkering and deluded beliefs in silver bullets. Focus on the important stuff.

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8 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said:

The idea that Rugby League can be re-packaged like darts is a nonsense. Darts isn't a sport it's a TV show, a drinking event night out which is televised. Has there been a big increase in local darts leagues?

We need the game to be more exciting to watch. I watched 1994 Leeds v Wigan and it was fast , exciting, end to end stuff. Our game has mostly turned into a predictable, arm wrestle based on completion rates and avoiding errors.

Re-structure as a solution is just re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

Like Rugby Union 7’s and 20/20 cricket? Of course Rugby League could come up with a similar concept. Those competitions are very different from Super League though and I agree yet another restructure would be ridiculous.

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25 minutes ago, M j M said:

My first decision as new RFL dictator will be a guarantee of no structure changes from now for a decade. 

When will people see that all this constant changing stuff drives negative perceptions of the sport and disenchantment? The notion that we are still discussing changes which will be implemented from the start of next season is ridiculous. The rules and rewards teams built their 2021 squads around should never be changed after that season started.

The current structure is perfectly sound and rational for the size and nature of our sport. Just leave it alone, stop sacrificing bits of the sport's credibility in the name of mindless tinkering and deluded beliefs in silver bullets. Focus on the important stuff.

Yep, if there is less money to go around fine, clubs who don´t contribute to the tv can´t justify getting more than 100k (esp if they is no academy) but the structure for League 1 is now competitive, as in RFL Champ. Just increase the teams in SL to 14. 

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Are rugby union 7s and 20/20 really what we are aspiring to though?

I'd imagine the revenue RU makes from 7s is chicken feed compared to the 15 a side game. It gets them a seat at the Olympic table, but I'm not sure how many RU fans really care about 7s or indeed whether that Olympic spot would really be justified were it not for the old boys network.

As for 20/20, I enjoy that game far more but the fact it is now being muddled up with the Hundred is precisely the worst kind of RL-style tinkering with a good product in the belief that a few tweaks will raise a few bob.

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I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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not sure how we make RL more compelling to watch, as in more exciting style of play. I note some good idea's above but at its heart RL nowadays is a very structured game.

Every team has set plays from all parts of the pitch with associated targets of where to finish sets/plays.  Occasionally the play may be off the cuff, maybe due to a marker not being set say, but then reverts back to type - but even then their will be a team plan/structure approach to whenever say Clarke darts off from PTB.  If you consistently watch your regular team you can see the general play plans being followed through. I guess some enjoy that chess board play enacting out, but most of us can't read what's going on so easily and hence yarn for more than what they are watching.

I guess what we want is for less chance for teams to be able to follow their set plays. That is have a more unstructured game. I guess that can only come if possession is much more contested and hence disrupted.

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1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

How is that not what I just described?

How is that anything like the NFL model? 

Geographically there is huge overlap. 

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

How is that anything like the NFL model? 

Geographically there is huge overlap. 

Markets there aren't, and if there is, such as New York, its because they have the local market which is large enough to sustain them.

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A 10 team super league and a 10 team championship would only see repeat fixtures of the chosen few. 

Again and again we discover that the interests of super league chairmen or owners are not in the best interests of our wider sport. 

This is narrow minded, selfish, insular and archaic in its approach and we would be better off sacking sky and walking away from the TV deal 

Edited by The storm
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3 minutes ago, The storm said:

A 10 team super league and a 10 team championship would only see repeat fixtures of the chosen few. 

Again and again we discover that the interests of super league chairmen or owners are not in the best interests of our wider sport. 

This is narrow minded, selfish, insular and archaic in its approach and we would be better off sacking sky and walking away from the TV deal 

Definitely not but it's ok for league 1 to be stuck with ten teams

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29 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Markets there aren't, and if there is, such as New York, its because they have the local market which is large enough to sustain them.

In the original SL plan I mean. There were huge geographical overlaps. 

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  • John Drake changed the title to League Restructure Thread (Merged Threads)

Davy: "I produced a paper six years ago based on promoting three leagues of ten teams at that stage. In terms of how the future may look, one can see a lot of logic in two leagues of ten.”

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/ken-davy-rugby-league-change-21444371

‘Davy also confirmed that as part of the new, reduced broadcast deal with Sky Sports, the Rugby Football League will receive a payment in excess of £5million next season.’

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25 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Davy: "I produced a paper six years ago based on promoting three leagues of ten teams at that stage. In terms of how the future may look, one can see a lot of logic in two leagues of ten.”

Been saying as soon as 2×10 was rumoured that the fact its leading, and possibly at the time only, major proponent is now the Head of Super League would mean it was likely.

Davy's obsession with this point makes less sense now than it did then, and reducing the Championship to 10 is just a way to get enough clubs on side.

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2 hours ago, The storm said:

A 10 team super league and a 10 team championship would only see repeat fixtures of the chosen few. 

Again and again we discover that the interests of super league chairmen or owners are not in the best interests of our wider sport. 

This is narrow minded, selfish, insular and archaic in its approach and we would be better off sacking sky and walking away from the TV deal 

Correct

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22 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

Correct

I agree, the same teams playing each other over and over again is hardly a spectacle, 14 teams and stick with it, and stop relying on Sky money,

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1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Been saying as soon as 2×10 was rumoured that the fact its leading, and possibly at the time only, major proponent is now the Head of Super League would mean it was likely.

Davy's obsession with this point makes less sense now than it did then, and reducing the Championship to 10 is just a way to get enough clubs on side.

Yep and a way to fund less clubs. Only the 20 that make it in will be funded. They have effectively done that now but still paying a token amount for the time being. 

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35 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

Yep and a way to fund less clubs. Only the 20 that make it in will be funded. They have effectively done that now but still paying a token amount for the time being. 

Quite, and then they'll cut again.

Join a sinking ship, or a gang that kills off members at will, then you reap what you sow.

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Had a fantastic night recording this weeks episode of the DockHouse Rugby Show 🎙️, with co-Host Keith Hyland and our special guest, who is the UK’s leading Rugby league publisher, with League express, Rugby League World and totalrl.com Marvelous Martyn Sadler. We discuss all things, Rugby League  inc SL Restructure and benefits of conference approach, participation levels and RLWC2021 

Please subscribe here to get access to the show due out Friday morning. Also follow Dockhouse Rugby show on Instagram and Dockhouse Dave on twitter👍

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxE2HKdRQnvg4PJLj2Z52mQlG_gD1_1i7 g

 

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8 hours ago, owls said:

I agree, the same teams playing each other over and over again is hardly a spectacle, 14 teams and stick with it, and stop relying on Sky money,

It's sky that are the risk 

Sky that are playing games whenever they feel like 

Sky who are turning our game into a farce 

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9 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Quite, and then they'll cut again.

Join a sinking ship, or a gang that kills off members at will, then you reap what you sow.

It's cannibalism isn't it.

But then they would argue, ''if people ain't for eating, why're they made of meat?''

It's patently obvious that these people are unfit to steer the (whole) game into the future.

Their focus is so narrow (filling the circus tent) and so short term (survival of the lucky few, at the expense of anyone else) they (and Sky) are one of the major risk factors to the game as a whole.

All right minded RL people (the amateur league enthusiasts) should turn their attention to the promoting the continued growth of grass roots clubs (new and old) and leave the travelling circus to it's own devices.

We need a National Governing Body, that represents the majority of the games stakeholders, (the volunteers and the participants) to concentrate on the clear and unequivocal goal, of spreading the game far and wide.

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If I am reading the situation right there will be nothing different next year in SL then apart from reduced funding, 12 clubs again with yet more loop fixtures.

Presumably no RL version of the 100 being tried either given the reserves/Acadamy will be running in alternate weeks.

Sky have apparently said to SL "you have 2 years to increase your value to us" and it looks like SL are spending half of that period doing exactly the same thing again and then cramming whatever they come up with into 2023.

I'm at a loss to understand how this is going to convince Sky to up their next bid given contract discussions will start in late 2022.

Maybe SL are gambling on everything coming up roses in an uninterrupted 2022 with the absent fans rushing back to buy season tickets and Sky subscriptions

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48 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

It's cannibalism isn't it.

But then they would argue, ''if people ain't for eating, why're they made of meat?''

It's patently obvious that these people are unfit to steer the (whole) game into the future.

Their focus is so narrow (filling the circus tent) and so short term (survival of the lucky few, at the expense of anyone else) they (and Sky) are one of the major risk factors to the game as a whole.

Not sure its cannibalism, seems more akin to cutting the throats of the weakest after a poor harvest so they don't eat anything.

There seems a fear within SL of standing up to Sky regarding their presentation and scheduling of games, it's clearly not helping anyone.

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3 hours ago, The storm said:

It's sky that are the risk 

Sky that are playing games whenever they feel like 

Sky who are turning our game into a farce 

Totally agree, went onto sky sports news Monday hoping to see some great piece on the two games played, first RL story I finally found after streams of other positive sports stories was " game ends in brawl" said previously there's an agenda to destroy or seriously damage our game.

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4 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

Not sure its cannibalism, seems more akin to cutting the throats of the weakest after a poor harvest so they don't eat anything.

There seems a fear within SL of standing up to Sky regarding their presentation and scheduling of games, it's clearly not helping anyone.

Let's be clear: the abnormal scheduling of games this season is down to the clubs.

The season started late due to COVID, but the clubs - understandably - still wanted to play the same amount of games, so both ticket and TV revenues weren't cut. But that inevitably meant midweek games, which have a knock on effect on the timings of the weekend schedule, and so on.

It's not been great. It's meant the usual rhythm of when games are on was disrupted and meaning I've watched fewer games on Sky this year. But like with many things in RL, the alternative - playing fewer games - was probably worse. 

As for not moving to 2x10 straight away, well I'm not a fan of massive changes to the pro/rel rules midseason, so again, the alternative was probably worse.

It is what it is. 2022 almost can't help but be better than this year, and hopefully we can start making some progress, with a world cup to cap it all off.        

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12 hours ago, owls said:

I agree, the same teams playing each other over and over again is hardly a spectacle, 14 teams and stick with it, and stop relying on Sky money,

Exactly. Go to 14, grow the pie and stick to it. If TV funding goes down then clubs just get less. Ultimately less TV funding is a sign of clubs and the game doing something wrong. They have not performed and must face the consequences. The answer is certainly not to just cut back while doing the same mistakes that led to less TV money in the first place. No sport grows by contracting.

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1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

It's cannibalism isn't it.

But then they would argue, ''if people ain't for eating, why're they made of meat?''

It's patently obvious that these people are unfit to steer the (whole) game into the future.

Their focus is so narrow (filling the circus tent) and so short term (survival of the lucky few, at the expense of anyone else) they (and Sky) are one of the major risk factors to the game as a whole.

All right minded RL people (the amateur league enthusiasts) should turn their attention to the promoting the continued growth of grass roots clubs (new and old) and leave the travelling circus to it's own devices.

We need a National Governing Body, that represents the majority of the games stakeholders, (the volunteers and the participants) to concentrate on the clear and unequivocal goal, of spreading the game far and wide.

I see it as being closer to Soviet Purges personally. 

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