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Could, Should private equity funding be used to redevelop Odsal?


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13 hours ago, Phil said:

Thrum Hall had history, Central Park had history, Wilderspool had history, all now gone and replaced with better facilities. 
 

I’m sick to flaming death of hearing Odsal this, Bulls that. Fine they had a successful phase in early super league but they’re entitled to sweet sod all

It would cost tens of millions to do up that ground, tens of millions which don’t exist in our game. Enough of this fetishisation of this hole in south bradford. 

Apart from the fact that it isn't Bradford fans who keep banging on about Odsal, don't you think those clubs might be in a better position today if they had hung on to CP and TH instead of ending up as tenants of football teams? 

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6 hours ago, Johnoco said:

Apart from the fact that it isn't Bradford fans who keep banging on about Odsal, don't you think those clubs might be in a better position today if they had hung on to CP and TH instead of ending up as tenants of football teams? 

Fax are a tenant but of the council not the football team, the council owns the ground. 
 

Wigan is a reasonable point but CP was in need of major investment 

"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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29 minutes ago, Phil said:

Fax are a tenant but of the council not the football team, the council owns the ground. 
 

Wigan is a reasonable point but CP was in need of major investment 

I seem to vaguely remember Dave Whelan presenting plans to redevelop Central Park and bring the football team and it getting knocked back. Imagine had things been a little less fractious in those days?

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8 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I seem to vaguely remember Dave Whelan presenting plans to redevelop Central Park and bring the football team and it getting knocked back. Imagine had things been a little less fractious in those days?

But that plan would have also seen Wigan RL lose ownership of the ground.

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Imagine how angry you would be if you had to go and stand in odsal to watch your rugby every two weeks rather than for a one off away game.

A lot of memories for Bradford fans held in old lady odsal but the vast majority of Bradford fans would snatch your hands off for a nice modern 10k stadium built on the old Richard Dunne site over the road. Shared with Bradford Park Avenue. 
 

But Bradford are skint, the sport is mostly skint, the RFL are skint and Bradford Council are skint so we shuffle along towards the drop in funding…

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52 minutes ago, LongStandingBull said:

Imagine how angry you would be if you had to go and stand in odsal to watch your rugby every two weeks rather than for a one off away game.

A lot of memories for Bradford fans held in old lady odsal but the vast majority of Bradford fans would snatch your hands off for a nice modern 10k stadium built on the old Richard Dunne site over the road. Shared with Bradford Park Avenue. 
 

But Bradford are skint, the sport is mostly skint, the RFL are skint and Bradford Council are skint so we shuffle along towards the drop in funding…

In a nutshell , a genuine shame , some of us have been very lucky 

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58 minutes ago, LongStandingBull said:

Imagine how angry you would be if you had to go and stand in odsal to watch your rugby every two weeks rather than for a one off away game.

A lot of memories for Bradford fans held in old lady odsal but the vast majority of Bradford fans would snatch your hands off for a nice modern 10k stadium built on the old Richard Dunne site over the road. Shared with Bradford Park Avenue. 
 

But Bradford are skint, the sport is mostly skint, the RFL are skint and Bradford Council are skint so we shuffle along towards the drop in funding…

I'd be interested to know from Bradford fans, if a new stadium was delivered over the road, do you think it would help the club attract more fans immediately? Because if so there's a business case for private capital to come in there. Yes, to make a profit from Bulls and PA as tenants, but the clubs benefit too. 

I do feel in rugby league that growth that is there for the taking is often left untouched, because we cant internally generate even modest funds to make simple investments. 

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4 hours ago, Phil said:

Fax are a tenant but of the council not the football team, the council owns the ground. 
 

Wigan is a reasonable point but CP was in need of major investment 

The Shay is Halifax FC's ground, it always has been. Maybe technically they are both equal tenants but it's the football teams ground in reality. 

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1 hour ago, Toby Chopra said:

I'd be interested to know from Bradford fans, if a new stadium was delivered over the road, do you think it would help the club attract more fans immediately? Because if so there's a business case for private capital to come in there. Yes, to make a profit from Bulls and PA as tenants, but the clubs benefit too. 

I do feel in rugby league that growth that is there for the taking is often left untouched, because we cant internally generate even modest funds to make simple investments. 

I would definitely be interested, as would a few latent BPA fans I'm sure.

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12 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

The Shay is Halifax FC's ground, it always has been. Maybe technically they are both equal tenants but it's the football teams ground in reality. 

No, it’s owned by the council Fax and Town are both tenants, it’s not a “technicality” it’s a legal agreement 

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"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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3 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

I'd be interested to know from Bradford fans, if a new stadium was delivered over the road, do you think it would help the club attract more fans immediately?

Not in the Championship, no.

On field success brings in the crowds, not fancy stadiums. Much as the latter are also nice to have, there are enough of them in RL that are not exactly packed to the rafters every weekend to suggest that on their own, they make no discernible difference to overall attendances unless the team playing in them is also doing well.

When the Bulls were having big success in Super League, they pulled in big crowds to go with it at Odsal, which was in no better state then than it is now.

In terms of attendances, the state of Odsal is, and always has been, a red herring in my opinion.

However, when it comes to generating revenue from corporates, that's a different matter; the better the facilities you have, the more coin you can rake in from them, which is why the Bulls spent the majority of the cash they got from the Council back in the day on building new mainly corporate facilities behind the sticks. But again, the really big money will only follow really successful teams. Those same corporate facilities are still there, but they'll be far less lucrative now than they were during the glory days in Super League.

And in any case, as all true Bradfordians know, Bradford Bulls aren't going to get a shiny new stadium, so discussing the 'what might happen if they did' is generally for other people to occupy their time with, while we get on with hoping the club make the best of what can be done at Odsal, whatever league they are playing in.

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7 hours ago, John Drake said:

Not in the Championship, no.

On field success brings in the crowds, not fancy stadiums. Much as the latter are also nice to have, there are enough of them in RL that are not exactly packed to the rafters every weekend to suggest that on their own, they make no discernible difference to overall attendances unless the team playing in them is also doing well.

When the Bulls were having big success in Super League, they pulled in big crowds to go with it at Odsal, which was in no better state then than it is now.

In terms of attendances, the state of Odsal is, and always has been, a red herring in my opinion.

However, when it comes to generating revenue from corporates, that's a different matter; the better the facilities you have, the more coin you can rake in from them, which is why the Bulls spent the majority of the cash they got from the Council back in the day on building new mainly corporate facilities behind the sticks. But again, the really big money will only follow really successful teams. Those same corporate facilities are still there, but they'll be far less lucrative now than they were during the glory days in Super League.

And in any case, as all true Bradfordians know, Bradford Bulls aren't going to get a shiny new stadium, so discussing the 'what might happen if they did' is generally for other people to occupy their time with, while we get on with hoping the club make the best of what can be done at Odsal, whatever league they are playing in.

Now come on John , you know that's not true , now that York have a nice new shiny facility they'll be pulling in 7,000 fans from the local populace , it's been stated as such on here 😉

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2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Now come on John , you know that's not true , now that York have a nice new shiny facility they'll be pulling in 7,000 fans from the local populace , it's been stated as such on here 😉

Yes and then they announce the game vs Bradford on Sunday has a limited 2k capacity and only one stand will be open. 
 

Im not sure what has gone wrong but the new shiny facility doesn’t serve its purpose at the moment

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On the subject of ‘would a new stadium pull fans to bradford’ interesting one.

I think there would be a ‘small’ increase in fans taking advantage of nicer comfier facilities. More families or young children would be able to go if they could sit or at least be under cover! 
 

Bradford would need super league before they saw any real large increase in attendance although the 3-4K average in league 1 and the championship is not far off the bottom of super league attendances which is the real shame. 

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Can someone explain why Bradford council haven't got a pot to pee in? As someone so eloquently stated a little earlier? 

With about 200,000 households they must be raking in at least 20 million a month in rates? 

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6 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Can someone explain why Bradford council haven't got a pot to pee in? As someone so eloquently stated a little earlier?

Same as every other council in the country.

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2 minutes ago, M j M said:

Same as every other council in the country.

7439399.jpg?type=article-full

I don't want to go up this road. 

 

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36 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I don't want to go up this road. 

 

Nope, but it explains that as they are cutting critical services it would be political suicide for the council to directly invest in a new stadium for the Bulls. The council would be better trying to come in to facilitate redevelopment somehow.

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1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

Can someone explain why Bradford council haven't got a pot to pee in? As someone so eloquently stated a little earlier? 

With about 200,000 households they must be raking in at least 20 million a month in rates? 

As the responses to your question so far confirm, that's a political subject and not appropriate for discussion in the RL forums. For the benefit of this thread, best just to accept that the council has no spare cash. Discussing the reasons for that would be a topic for the politics sub forum.

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15 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

I'd be interested to know from Bradford fans, if a new stadium was delivered over the road, do you think it would help the club attract more fans immediately? Because if so there's a business case for private capital to come in there. Yes, to make a profit from Bulls and PA as tenants, but the clubs benefit too. 

I do feel in rugby league that growth that is there for the taking is often left untouched, because we cant internally generate even modest funds to make simple investments. 

I bow to John's analysis to a point.  I bow to leaving Bradford council out of this.....

On the Private equity have we any idea of what an  "SL ready" stadium would cost a group of private investors? I think the stadia at St. Helens and at Warrington cost about £30,000,000 each. Probably more today.

So if a private equity group would provide the say £40M, then they in time they would want back the money plus interest and at 20% that would be £48, 000,000.......

And so in this "free" new stadium will Bradford be able to afford to play superleague and pay back £48M????

The thing about Wire and Saints were that yes indeed crowds went significantly up just on offering fans new stadia, but that was also IIRC part of a re-launch where these clubs were also building to really chase after the trophies.

Please understand private equity is no different to any other source of big loans........

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9 minutes ago, steve oates said:

I bow to John's analysis to a point.  I bow to leaving Bradford council out of this.....

On the Private equity have we any idea of what an  "SL ready" stadium would cost a group of private investors? I think the stadia at St. Helens and at Warrington cost about £30,000,000 each. Probably more today.

So if a private equity group would provide the say £40M, then they in time they would want back the money plus interest and at 20% that would be £48, 000,000.......

And so in this "free" new stadium will Bradford be able to afford to play superleague and pay back £48M????

The thing about Wire and Saints were that yes indeed crowds went significantly up just on offering fans new stadia, but that was also IIRC part of a re-launch where these clubs were also building to really chase after the trophies.

Please understand private equity is no different to any other source of big loans........

My understanding is that if Rugby League does go down the PE road, it's not individual clubs that would have to pay the money back it's the SL entity that would be required to do so, more like from future TV deal revenue 

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