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The Cornwall RLFC Thread


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8 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The 'national' division would be southern by immediate default and, pretty much straightaway, essentially worthless.

Not at all, give clubs the choice, play national to be higher in the pyramid, play northern regional lower down. You can't progress upwards unless you play in it.

Clubs with ambitions of Super League would have to either agree they are in a national competition or be honest with their fans and go regional.

Edited by Tommygilf
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21 minutes ago, Dave T said:

How so? 

The ones championing this aren't the ones putting their hands in the pockets for vanity projects. 

Typing some stuff on the Internet to slate Oldham and the likes is no effort at all really. 

I expected my post to appear straight after the one about stock car racing, but it came out four or five below so created the wrong impression. I'll be more careful in future.

The typical post on these forums is so monosyllabic that readers have become conditioned to ''guessing'' what the poster implied. I'm afraid Dave, you've jumped to some erroneous conclusion about what I really meant. I usually try to be more explicit, in my communications.

I was just musing about the possible willingness of rugby league fans (in Cornwall) to travel, and put up with the counties poor infrastructure to watch the games.

Time will tell I suppose.

For what it's worth, I agree with you, that this should have been discussed amongst the clubs and accepted, rather than being foisted onto them without consultation. If the travel is ''unaffordable'' it's not going to succeed long term. That's quite clear.

I was just saying in a recent post (praising the North East's 40 year long effort) that just plonking new semi-pro clubs in an area and ''hoping'' for a great turn out won't work. We have plenty of evidence to support that belief.

Also, I know very well, that having some detailed, credible plans is an essential feature of any successful project.

So, we are in agreement here Dave. God help Eric Perez, Cornwall and League 1. 

 

 

Edited by fighting irish
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8 hours ago, Niels said:

In English football we have a National League North and South . In Scotland also there are Highland and Lowland leagues.

These aren't the professional leagues though as I'm sure you know. If you want similar in RL then maybe the clubs that object to playing in a national competition should drop out if the professional pyramid, to leagues like the ones you cite in Football.

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7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Joining the pro ranks a national level with teams able and willing to compete in that environment. Its pointless going round in circles asking clubs who get less than 1000 fans to do the most initial work with new clubs whose ambition is way beyond that level. I think that would cut out a lot of rubbish for all sides.

I think your mistaking geography with political boundaries. Plenty of clubs play within the latter, very few in the former (otherwise Russian football would be a nightmare for example). Cornwall is in England, the RFL is the national governing body for England, they have a right to compete in English competitions.

I think pragmatism isn't possible without strategy, otherwise, what are you being pragmatic about except nebulous clubs with nebulous interests that occasionally converge into alliances to be negotiated with. I do think Cornwall seems to be devoid of any strategic aim by the RFL.

Why do you think Cornwall have higher ambitions? Because Perez said he wants to walk out at Old Trafford? 

This project has no foundations of note, or anything else really. This is a perfect example of a club absolutely having to prove itself at the bottom of the pyramid, and they are lucky to be admitted there. 

I 100% agree about strategy and planning, but you are the one championing what is a badly planned initiative here.

You say the previous failures do no harm, but they absolutely do. The long list of failures versus the few moderate successes hardly inspire confidence and attract others to join. 

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11 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I expected my post to appear straight after the one about stock car racing, but it came out four or five below so created the wrong impression. I'll be more careful in future.

The typical post on these forums is so monosyllabic that readers have become conditioned to ''guessing'' what the poster implied. I'm afraid Dave, you've jumped to some erroneous conclusion about what I really meant. I usually try to be more explicit, in my communications.

I was just musing about the possible willingness of rugby league fans (in Cornwall) to travel, and put up with the counties poor infrastructure to watch the games.

Time will tell I suppose.

For what it's worth, I agree with you, that this should have been discussed amongst the clubs and accepted, rather than being foisted onto them without consultation. If the travel is ''unaffordable'' it's not going to succeed long term. That's quite clear.

I was just saying in a recent post (praising the North East's 40 year long effort) that just plonking new semi-pro clubs in an area and ''hoping'' for a great turn out won't work. We have plenty of evidence to support that belief.

Also, I know very well, that having some detailed, credible plans is an essential feature of any successful project.

So, we are in agreement here Dave. God help Eric Perez, Cornwall and League 1. 

 

 

Thanks for clarifying - and yes, I think you should use the quote function to make it clear what you refer to 😆

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5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Why do you think Cornwall have higher ambitions? Because Perez said he wants to walk out at Old Trafford? 

This project has no foundations of note, or anything else really. This is a perfect example of a club absolutely having to prove itself at the bottom of the pyramid, and they are lucky to be admitted there. 

I 100% agree about strategy and planning, but you are the one championing what is a badly planned initiative here.

You say the previous failures do no harm, but they absolutely do. The long list of failures versus the few moderate successes hardly inspire confidence and attract others to join. 

I agree and think it has lots of underlying issues to resolve, but if they can't start in League 1 because (some) clubs don't want to travel, where can they start?

Surely the long list suggests otherwise? Despite the sometimes hostile environment, people keep queuing up to put money time and effort into starting up professional RL teams.

Edited by Tommygilf
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13 minutes ago, Damien said:

These aren't the professional leagues though as I'm sure you know. If you want similar in RL then maybe the clubs that object to playing in a national competition should drop out if the professional pyramid, to leagues like the ones you cite in Football.

Not sure about the Lowland League but the others mentioned are all at least as professional as the national division immediately above them.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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So this is now turning into a badly planned initiative, vanity project etc. In about a day its moved on from travel to all the other usual attacks which at this point have nothing to back up those claims. I have seen very little about this project, other than what has been announced, to decide if this is well planned or not. I genuinely don't know and unless you are privy to the proposal I can't see how anyone else does either. I do presume the RFL have and that the club have met whatever criteria is in place. 

I do certainly share concerns about the timeframe. As we are now in November it does seem very short to get things set up and a competitive team on the field. Again though that is up to the RFL to judge and get right. I don't particularly see the need to rush.

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12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

 The long list of failures 

Don't worry D

WE hope one day professional rugby league can return to Canada specifically  TD Place Stadium 

We hope one day professional Rugby League can return to Canada, and specifically TD Place Stadium.

We hope one day professional Rugby League can return to Canada, and specifically TD Place Stadium.We hope one day professional Rugby League can return to Canada, and specifically TD Place Stadium.We hope one day professional Rugby League can return to Canada, and specifically TD Place Stadium.

We hope one day professional Rugby League can return to Canada, and specifically TD Place Stadium.We hope one day professional Rugby League can return to Canada, and specifically TD Place Stadium.

We hope one day professional Rugby League can return to Canada, and specifically TD Place Stadium.

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3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Not sure about the Lowland League but the others mentioned are all at least as professional as the national division immediately above them.

There is a clear distinction between the professional leagues administered by what is now the EFL and what is below. Anything below is non league football. It's only the sheer amount of money in the game and owners chasing getting into EFL League 2 that has meant that we now have monied up clubs in leagues below that.

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46 minutes ago, Dave T said:

How so? 

The ones championing this aren't the ones putting their hands in the pockets for vanity projects. 

Typing some stuff on the Internet to slate Oldham and the likes is no effort at all really. 

I think vanity is actually the amount of money given to teams like swinton oldham and any other club with no infrastructure to pretend they are national teams with professional aspirations. 

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Couple of questions for people who are anti-Cornwall-in-league-1:

1. If your issue is travel for the other League 1 clubs, what league should they be in instead?

2. If your issue is that it doesn't seem well planned - what details (e.g. financial plan? business plan?) would you have to see that would convince you that it might work? 

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1 minute ago, Damien said:

There is a clear distinction between the professional leagues administered by what is now the EFL and what is below. Anything below is non league football. It's only the sheer amount of money in the game and owners chasing getting into EFL League 2 that has meant that we now have monied up clubs in leagues below that.

There's a distinction in administration but well into the regional divisions they are full-time clubs. I know the BBC at FA Cup time likes to pretend that all non league clubs are populated by milkmen who just run out on Saturday but it's been thirty years since that was true.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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35 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Not at all, give clubs the choice, play national to be higher in the pyramid, play northern regional lower down. You can't progress upwards unless you play in it.

Clubs with ambitions of Super League would have to either agree they are in a national competition or be honest with their fans and go regional.

This would probably mean that League 1 (plus a few less ambitious northern championship teams) would become the northern regional division and the southern league 1 clubs would join the more ambitious northern clubs in the nationwide championship.

We would then have W Wales, etc versus the likes of Leigh, Featherstone, Bradford and Halifax. I don't think it would work with the difference in standard - W Wales, etc aren't suddenly going to be able to recruit at the level of the club's they would compete with.

Edited by Barley Mow
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1 minute ago, Barley Mow said:

This would probably mean that League 1 (plus a few less ambitious northern championship teams) would become the northern regional division and the southern league 1 clubs would join the more ambitious northern clubs in the nationwide championship.

We would then have W Wales, etc versus the likes of Leigh, Featherstone, Bradford and Halifax. I don't think it would work with the difference in standard - W Wales, etc aren't suddenly going to be able to recruit at the level of the club's they would compete with.

They'd be funded far better centrally to be fair, and we'd have a far more realistic view of the prospects of RL in this country.

I actually suspect most clubs would shut up whinging for the time being.

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8 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

This would probably mean that League 1 (plus a few less ambitious northern championship teams) would become the northern regional division and the southern league 1 clubs would join the more ambitious northern clubs in the nationwide championship.

We would then have W Wales, etc versus the likes of Leigh, Featherstone, Bradford and Halifax. I don't think it would work with the difference in standard - W Wales, etc aren't suddenly going to be able to recruit at the level of the club's they would compete with.

As surely as night follow day, within half a season you'd have the bigger clubs moaning about lack of away fans (or something) and the vote to expel would follow soon after.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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30 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I agree and think it has lots of underlying issues to resolve, but if they can't start in League 1 because (some) clubs don't want to travel, where can they start?

Surely the long list suggests otherwise? Despite the sometimes hostile environment, people keep queuing up to put money time and effort into starting up professional RL teams.

Clubs will travel. We have actual evidence that proves that (Canada). Clubs are rightly pushing back on funding expansion. It is being left to them to fund it. 

Of course the long list can be I terpreted in various ways, and I don't have an issue with failures really, but it isn't inspiring. 

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3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

They'd be funded far better centrally to be fair, and we'd have a far more realistic view of the prospects of RL in this country.

I actually suspect most clubs would shut up whinging for the time being.

Cornwall whether they play or not have done us a service. They have shown RL has enough serious clubs for 2 national divisions with central funding and regional with no money below.  

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12 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

This would probably mean that League 1 (plus a few less ambitious northern championship teams) would become the northern regional division and the southern league 1 clubs would join the more ambitious northern clubs in the nationwide championship.

We would then have W Wales, etc versus the likes of Leigh, Featherstone, Bradford and Halifax. I don't think it would work with the difference in standard - W Wales, etc aren't suddenly going to be able to recruit at the level of the club's they would compete with.

Whilst true, initially at least when it comes to competitiveness, I think it provides a fairly decent measure of clubs and where they want to be. We would have those that actually want to progress and play in a professional national league pyramid and those that don't and are happy with their lot in a regional league with plenty of derbies. There is no shame in either and maybe we do need to do that.

Edited by Damien
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16 minutes ago, zylya said:

Couple of questions for people who are anti-Cornwall-in-league-1:

1. If your issue is travel for the other League 1 clubs, what league should they be in instead?

2. If your issue is that it doesn't seem well planned - what details (e.g. financial plan? business plan?) would you have to see that would convince you that it might work? 

2. Perez has admitted that he has been working on this for '4 or 5 months'. That hardly suggests extensive groundwork has been done. 

They have no team (or anything really) with 4m to go. 

There appears to be no funding plan in place from the RFL who have removed travel funding. 

As per my previous post, if this was announced for 2023 and that travel costs were covered, it would be difficult to grumble. 

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20 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

I think vanity is actually the amount of money given to teams like swinton oldham and any other club with no infrastructure to pretend they are national teams with professional aspirations. 

They are real RL clubs, working in their communities, playing games, doing good stuff. 

The disdain shown towards RL clubs from within is disgusting. Who needs enemies? 

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30 minutes ago, Damien said:

So this is now turning into a badly planned initiative, vanity project etc. In about a day its moved on from travel to all the other usual attacks which at this point have nothing to back up those claims. I have seen very little about this project, other than what has been announced, to decide if this is well planned or not. I genuinely don't know and unless you are privy to the proposal I can't see how anyone else does either. I do presume the RFL have and that the club have met whatever criteria is in place. 

I do certainly share concerns about the timeframe. As we are now in November it does seem very short to get things set up and a competitive team on the field. Again though that is up to the RFL to judge and get right. I don't particularly see the need to rush.

The lack of travel funding is part of the bad planning. Distance means cost - it is the same point. Clubs showed with Toronto they were prepared to travel from a time point of view. 

These are not different points. 

And you appear to agree about the bad planning with your points about the time lines. 

This is the point. 

Had the RFL announced this for 2023 and given £5k travel subsidy per club it'd be hard to argue there is an issue. 

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7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

They are real RL clubs, working in their communities, playing games, doing good stuff. 

The disdain shown towards RL clubs from within is disgusting. Who needs enemies? 

I mean, with even the kindest, most favourable, interpretation possible, Cornwall have no ground, no infrastructure and no development.

But only Swinton, Oldham and Rochdale need kicking for carrying on like that. With new clubs, it's 'vision'.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The lack of travel funding is part of the bad planning. Distance means cost - it is the same point. Clubs showed with Toronto they were prepared to travel from a time point of view. 

These are not different points. 

And you appear to agree about the bad planning with your points about the time lines. 

This is the point. 

Had the RFL announced this for 2023 and given £5k travel subsidy per club it'd be hard to argue there is an issue. 

Shouldn’t this have been an RFL announcement?  I think we will see something shortly as I believe there was a meeting yesterday involving L1 clubs and Champs.

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