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The Cornwall RLFC Thread


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1 minute ago, Billy King's Boots said:

Cornish Pirates invest £1,140,000 a year and attract 0.3% of the Cornish population (1,700). That's the equivalent of Oldham or Rochdale Hornets attracting a crowd of 750 (0.3% of their town's populations).

Cornwall RL are going to have to promote very hard to pull in good crowds - but the interview with Rob Butland dodges the question on what good looks like.

I agree. Not sure we needed another team at the moment given the reducing TV rights. Though Perez is spending his own money. Cornish Pirates are banking on promotion and a new stadium but they are an established club.

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1 minute ago, NW10LDN said:

I agree. Not sure we needed another team at the moment given the reducing TV rights. Though Perez is spending his own money. Cornish Pirates are banking on promotion and a new stadium but they are an established club.

Yep.  I would never confuse spend on players with investment unless the infrastructure is there to capitalize on it. If Cornwall ru made prem the money they get from one season and extra publicity gets them a lifelong stadium.  

If Pirates had a modern stadium they would be getting 2500 at 2nd tier and likely as big as Sale or Newcastle in Prem. 

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1 minute ago, NW10LDN said:

I agree. Not sure we needed another team at the moment given the reducing TV rights. Though Perez is spending his own money. Cornish Pirates are banking on promotion and a new stadium but they are an established club.

They are, but it gives you an indication of what's possible - how long it takes and how much it costs to achieve modest success.

Redruth drawing 900 is a more realistic comparison - but, again, a well established team playing other South West sides, so there's a derby element to games.

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3 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Yep.  I would never confuse spend on players with investment unless the infrastructure is there to capitalize on it. If Cornwall ru made prem the money they get from one season and extra publicity gets them a lifelong stadium.  

If Pirates had a modern stadium they would be getting 2500 at 2nd tier and likely as big as Sale or Newcastle in Prem. 

The Prem has a rights deal worth 100 million plus so it would be massive for them. Not the case for league.

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8 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Understanding the game and bringing skills and speed up a few levels are the main requirements but there could be players down there who can adapt.  

If I was going down there to coach, I would be confident they exist, it’s just finding them.  

When I’ve watched WWR or St Gaudens, they always have opportunities to score but some players just lack the skills and decision making necessary right now.  Without those and some ‘bought in’ experience, Cornwall have the same challenges and they aren’t a quick fix but just because they’re RU players doesn’t right them off.

 

It’s not writing them off but a player on X amount of money (a lot more than most RL players) in the union 2nd division would get torn a new one by a battle hardened kid from Dudley Hill,  I’ve seen it happen numerous times with my own eyes.

The games are so different, the mentality of the players are a million miles apart, the fitness levels are off the scale, how many “union” converts did Coventry use last year?

It’s possible to develop players but as I mentioned 5 union players in a 17 at L1 level and that team gets beat every week except for maybe against WWR.

 

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Surely it is only in the third tier semi-professional Rugby League that  somebody can come along, willing to spend their own money to bring the sport to a place where there are not a dozen or more clubs already scrambling around to attract the same customers only to be told it can't be done and anyway we don't want you breaking into our private little  world because you are too faraway. 

Of course it may flop just like a few others in the past and League One clubs will have to fork out a few extra pounds to travel to Cornwall (they wont have to travel  twice ALLTHE WAY up to Cumbria next season. but they are not about to raid the diminishing player pool (at least not by much) so let's give it a go and give Perez and Co a chance. If all the doom merchants get their way and it does fail in the end it is hardly going to be earth shattering  - just confirmation that the game is for North of England and Southern France and that the elite (currently called Super League) is nothing more than The Trans-Pennine and District League.(plus French guests).

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1 minute ago, Rowan said:

Surely it is only in the third tier semi-professional Rugby League that  somebody can come along, willing to spend their own money to bring the sport to a place where there are not a dozen or more clubs already scrambling around to attract the same customers only to be told it can't be done and anyway we don't want you breaking into our private little  world because you are too faraway. 

Of course it may flop just like a few others in the past and League One clubs will have to fork out a few extra pounds to travel to Cornwall (they wont have to travel  twice ALLTHE WAY up to Cumbria next season. but they are not about to raid the diminishing player pool (at least not by much) so let's give it a go and give Perez and Co a chance. If all the doom merchants get their way and it does fail in the end it is hardly going to be earth shattering  - just confirmation that the game is for North of England and Southern France and that the elite (currently called Super League) is nothing more than The Trans-Pennine and District League.(plus French guests).

What do you mean by their own money? I stopped reading after that. Not being ignorant.

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1 hour ago, NW10LDN said:

The Prem has a rights deal worth 100 million plus so it would be massive for them. Not the case for league.

I'm not sure why you think this.

The new Premiership TV deal is a reduction on the previous deal and less than the old SL deal. Yes it will be about £10 million per annum more than the new SL deal but includes added extras like the Premiership Cup and no terrestrial coverage. Both would need to be added to the SL total. It is also split between 13 clubs (we'll ignore CVC's share) and not 12.

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39 minutes ago, Rowan said:

Surely it is only in the third tier semi-professional Rugby League that  somebody can come along, willing to spend their own money to bring the sport to a place where there are not a dozen or more clubs already scrambling around to attract the same customers only to be told it can't be done and anyway we don't want you breaking into our private little  world because you are too faraway. 

Of course it may flop just like a few others in the past and League One clubs will have to fork out a few extra pounds to travel to Cornwall (they wont have to travel  twice ALLTHE WAY up to Cumbria next season. but they are not about to raid the diminishing player pool (at least not by much) so let's give it a go and give Perez and Co a chance. If all the doom merchants get their way and it does fail in the end it is hardly going to be earth shattering  - just confirmation that the game is for North of England and Southern France and that the elite (currently called Super League) is nothing more than The Trans-Pennine and District League.(plus French guests).

I know the last sentence is tongue in cheek but unfortunately it’s true

sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

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56 minutes ago, Damien said:

I'm not sure why you think this.

The new Premiership TV deal is a reduction on the previous deal and less than the old SL deal. Yes it will be about £10 million per annum more than the new SL deal but includes added extras like the Premiership Cup and no terrestrial coverage. Both would need to be added to the SL total. It is also split between 13 clubs (we'll ignore CVC's share) and not 12.

Think what? Cornish Pirates getting promoted and having a split of rights deal which is much bigger would be massive for the club. CVC investment as well. Nobody cares about the Prem Cup but they also have European competitions and regular games against clubs from other countries to make more money.

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2 hours ago, northamptoncougar said:

It’s not writing them off but a player on X amount of money (a lot more than most RL players) in the union 2nd division would get torn a new one by a battle hardened kid from Dudley Hill,  I’ve seen it happen numerous times with my own eyes.

The games are so different, the mentality of the players are a million miles apart, the fitness levels are off the scale, how many “union” converts did Coventry use last year?

It’s possible to develop players but as I mentioned 5 union players in a 17 at L1 level and that team gets beat every week except for maybe against WWR.

 

In short for the Bears 2 to 3. Josh Dunne was a very good signing last season and came from union though he played a very high level in union (Irish interprovincial u20). There has been other successes so it can be done, however as mentioned by others you cannot compete in league 1 with predominantly RU players. Its not just size, skill or even fitness that makes the difference. I've seen big RU converts, giants on the field, who are soft in contact and just don't have the right mentality for it. The Bears even had an England 7s winger play a couple of games, got smashed and never came back! 

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6 hours ago, Billy King's Boots said:

They are, but it gives you an indication of what's possible - how long it takes and how much it costs to achieve modest success.

Redruth drawing 900 is a more realistic comparison - but, again, a well established team playing other South West sides, so there's a derby element to games.

Redruth play in Nat 2 South. They play teams from Leicester, St. Albans, Guernsey, Canterbury and Bury St Edmunds. Many of them are as far away as Wigan or Warrington.

Their closest team is Barnstaple which is 100 miles. Roughly the distance from Salford to Hull. So not really a derby.

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5 hours ago, dixiedean said:

Redruth play in Nat 2 South. They play teams from Leicester, St. Albans, Guernsey, Canterbury and Bury St Edmunds. Many of them are as far away as Wigan or Warrington.

Their closest team is Barnstaple which is 100 miles. Roughly the distance from Salford to Hull. So not really a derby.

Yes, the story is more that Redruth get one in fourteen of the inhabitants of the town to watch their matches (very few away fans).

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5 hours ago, dixiedean said:

Redruth play in Nat 2 South. They play teams from Leicester, St. Albans, Guernsey, Canterbury and Bury St Edmunds. Many of them are as far away as Wigan or Warrington.

Their closest team is Barnstaple which is 100 miles. Roughly the distance from Salford to Hull. So not really a derby.

Just had a look at that National 2 South table. There's some brutal journeys in there.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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15 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Manchester with the stadium right there,  500,000 pop,  two uni's to work with and easy catchment areas for players would have been my shout in England. 

Doubt they'd let these in when they didn't let Manchester Rangers in.

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2 hours ago, iffleyox said:

Yes, the story is more that Redruth get one in fourteen of the inhabitants of the town to watch their matches (very few away fans).

cornwall should fit right into the RL pyramid then... another team people can moan about not bringing away fans.. :kolobok_ph34r:

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14 hours ago, northamptoncougar said:

It’s not writing them off but a player on X amount of money (a lot more than most RL players) in the union 2nd division would get torn a new one by a battle hardened kid from Dudley Hill,  I’ve seen it happen numerous times with my own eyes.

The games are so different, the mentality of the players are a million miles apart, the fitness levels are off the scale, how many “union” converts did Coventry use last year?

It’s possible to develop players but as I mentioned 5 union players in a 17 at L1 level and that team gets beat every week except for maybe against WWR.

 

We have all seen RU players fail in RL but these were normally high profile and salaries really don’t come into it.  

Have you forgotten that a massive amount of youth coming into RL already play RU at school, college or university?  Historically, many of the greatest players we’ve ever had in RL played RU before that.

You will find no one more anti RU ‘establishment’ than me but that doesn’t detract from me being able to recognise skill, natural ability or body shape in a player, whatever the code and the potentials.  This is why I say using RU players it isn’t a quick fix for Cornwall but someone with the potential to be a regular is what they should be looking for.

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15 hours ago, iffleyox said:

to be strictly fair it's motorway for another hour south of Bristol - to Exeter, then it depends where you're going as to how long you can stay on the Devon Expressway...

An hour most of the time, but summer holiday weekends can be a 100 mile queue from Plymouth back to the A303 turn off.

I lived in the area when 30K+ people would travel to Twickenham for the county final if Cornwall made the final. Definitely an untapped market currently.

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17 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

We have all seen RU players fail in RL but these were normally high profile and salaries really don’t come into it.  

Have you forgotten that a massive amount of youth coming into RL already play RU at school, college or university?  Historically, many of the greatest players we’ve ever had in RL played RU before that.

You will find no one more anti RU ‘establishment’ than me but that doesn’t detract from me being able to recognise skill, natural ability or body shape in a player, whatever the code and the potentials.  This is why I say using RU players it isn’t a quick fix for Cornwall but someone with the potential to be a regular is what they should be looking for.

That's not really the point people are making though. Cornwall have said they want to use predominantly Cornish players. We all know some players can convert but you don't win league 1 matches on potential and inexperience at league 1 is brutally exposed (see WWR). Not conducive to growing a club when you are getting tonked 100+ points week in week out 

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4 minutes ago, JonM said:

An hour most of the time, but summer holiday weekends can be a 100 mile queue from Plymouth back to the A303 turn off.

don't disagree - after years of living in both Devon and Cornwall when we visit now I generally want to be on the road from Northants by 0500 in the winter, and 0400 in the summer months. The trick (such as it is) is to make sure you're south of the Avonmouth bridge on the M5 before the peak of morning rush hour in Bristol - if you get caught out there, you're set up to fail everywhere further south.

One tip from RU - teams playing Pirates generally come down the day before and leave the day after. 

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13 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

That's not really the point people are making though. Cornwall have said they want to use predominantly Cornish players. We all know some players can convert but you don't win league 1 matches on potential and inexperience at league 1 is brutally exposed (see WWR). Not conducive to growing a club when you are getting tonked 100+ points week in week out 

If you read my previous comments I haven’t suggested they should play players purely on potential or that they must be inexperienced.  The comments I was referring to where exactly my point.  The bottom half of L1 is very little difference to upper National Conference and RU players get ‘trialled’ in that.  

To be a success Cornwall will absolutely need players who can play (see comments on ‘bought in’ players) but, given the timescale, they will need to field a side first and that remains to be seen.

 

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31 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

That's not really the point people are making though. Cornwall have said they want to use predominantly Cornish players. We all know some players can convert but you don't win league 1 matches on potential and inexperience at league 1 is brutally exposed (see WWR). Not conducive to growing a club when you are getting tonked 100+ points week in week out 

It does depend on the standard of players too. When WWR started out I don't think they had much money and didn't attract a high calibre of RU player. I'm not saying that Cornwall do have the means to do that but WWR seems to keep being trotted out as an example without any context.

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