RL on Channel 4

[gingerjon]

16 minutes ago, JohnM said:

attendances have reduced when games have been F2A

So, you're saying that our 1970s Challenge Cup final attendances would have been higher if only the prestige of the Challenge Cup hadn't been risen by it being covered year in year out live on the BBC?

[JohnM]

No.

[Toby Chopra]

13 hours ago, JohnM said:

Grand Final is on terrestrial is an absolute must. 

If so, would the FtA rights income compensate for the reduced numbers though the turnstiles and possible reduction in Sky income?

Of all the games we play, it's the one I'd be least worried about being on FTA.

It would have next to no effect at all on the crowd. No-one forks out the money for a ticket, food, drink  travel to Manchester just because it's on Sky. People attend the GF to experience the event, or to hopefully see their team lift the title in the flesh. If they weren't bothered about being there - and don't have Sky themselves - they can already find a pub, or get a NOW day pass or other options. FTA would make little difference.

As for Sky themselves, I explained above why it's not a dealbreaker for them.

And none of that takes into account the boost the sport would get from having our flagship game shown to a much wider audience, and the uplift it will give to attendances, viewership and sponsors in future years, including at the GF itself.

Most major sports I can think of puts their final on FTA, even when the rest is behind a paywall. Champions League, union premiership final just gone to FTA and the euro final next cycle, The Hundred etc. 

Finals are a sport's way of saying 'come and see us at our finest' and given we don't have any other guaranteed properties to do that with if we don't push for the GF on terrestrial it's tantamount to saying we don't have any confidence in our ability to grow interest in the sport.              

[JohnM]

A well argued and well presented case, in response to a question I felt had to be asked. Serious suggestion: Have you considered putting that across to IMG? I believe the main man there is a Matt Dwyer. I'm sure his email address figured in these pages somewhere.

Edited August 8, 2022 by JohnM

[Dunbar]

10 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

Of all the games we play, it's the one I'd be least worried about being on FTA.

It would have next to no effect at all on the crowd. No-one forks out the money for a ticket, food, drink  travel to Manchester just because it's on Sky. People attend the GF to experience the event, or to hopefully see their team lift the title in the flesh. If they weren't bothered about being there - and don't have Sky themselves - they can already find a pub, or get a NOW day pass or other options. FTA would make little difference.

As for Sky themselves, I explained above why it's not a dealbreaker for them.

And none of that takes into account the boost the sport would get from having our flagship game shown to a much wider audience, and the uplift it will give to attendances, viewership and sponsors in future years, including at the GF itself.

Most major sports I can think of puts their final on FTA, even when the rest is behind a paywall. Champions League, union premiership final just gone to FTA and the euro final next cycle, The Hundred etc. 

Finals are a sport's way of saying 'come and see us at our finest' and given we don't have any other guaranteed properties to do that with if we don't push for the GF on terrestrial it's tantamount to saying we don't have any confidence in our ability to grow interest in the sport.              

While I agree with the substance of this post, I would argue that we have had and still have the free to air game to showcase the game at its best - the Challenge Cup Final.  It has been the premier occasion for our sport for most of its history.

The success story that is the Grand Final didn't necessarily have to be at the expense of the Challenge Cup Final - I believe there was and still is room for both.  They also 'feel' like very different occasions as well with the daytime Challenge Cup Final being positioned as a game for the Rugby League Community and the more 'intense' Grand Final (under lights) being more of a passionate occasion.

If I were to give one priority to IMG it would be to restore the Challenge Cup Final to its former glory.

[Tommygilf]

25 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

 

If I were to give one priority to IMG it would be to restore the Challenge Cup Final to its former glory.

Not going to happen IMO

Times have changed

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Not going to happen IMO

Times have changed

It's not going to happen in becoming the biggest trophy in RL again.

But, with not a huge amount of effort, it could be restored to a day out and celebration of the rugby league family.

[Dunbar]

6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Not going to happen IMO

Times have changed

Well I certainly hope IMG don't have the same attitude. 

The game that delivers the biggest TV audience for a club game in the UK and the biggest attendance up to about 7 years ago is not something to just give up on.

[Dave T]

26 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Well I certainly hope IMG don't have the same attitude. 

The game that delivers the biggest TV audience for a club game in the UK and the biggest attendance up to about 7 years ago is not something to just give up on.

Yes, in all our doom and gloom we really shouldn't forget that the Cup remains one of our biggest assets. 

[Dave T]

11 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

Of all the games we play, it's the one I'd be least worried about being on FTA.

It would have next to no effect at all on the crowd. No-one forks out the money for a ticket, food, drink  travel to Manchester just because it's on Sky. People attend the GF to experience the event, or to hopefully see their team lift the title in the flesh. If they weren't bothered about being there - and don't have Sky themselves - they can already find a pub, or get a NOW day pass or other options. FTA would make little difference.

As for Sky themselves, I explained above why it's not a dealbreaker for them.

And none of that takes into account the boost the sport would get from having our flagship game shown to a much wider audience, and the uplift it will give to attendances, viewership and sponsors in future years, including at the GF itself.

Most major sports I can think of puts their final on FTA, even when the rest is behind a paywall. Champions League, union premiership final just gone to FTA and the euro final next cycle, The Hundred etc. 

Finals are a sport's way of saying 'come and see us at our finest' and given we don't have any other guaranteed properties to do that with if we don't push for the GF on terrestrial it's tantamount to saying we don't have any confidence in our ability to grow interest in the sport.              

I had a quick scan and the RU Grand Final was shown on BT Sport and ITV4. 

They peaked at 1.3m and averaged around 950k across the two channels. 

That is an excellent number, but I do wonder what our number is for the 1hr highlight show on BBC. We know we can peak at around 500k on Sky, and I'd expect at least the same on BBC, so we quite possibly get that kind of number ourselves. 

And on that point, who has the rights to Grand Final and Playoff highlights this year? 

[RigbyLuger]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

That is an excellent number, but I do wonder what our number is for the 1hr highlight show on BBC.

As it's broadcast at a time for insomniacs and those at home during the say, probably sod all.

[Tommygilf]

49 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It's not going to happen in becoming the biggest trophy in RL again.

But, with not a huge amount of effort, it could be restored to a day out and celebration of the rugby league family.

Thats nice, but it pretty much is that already. It doesn't need massive changes to do that.

The "Make the Cup Great Again" crowd are sadly delusional imo

[Tommygilf]

46 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Well I certainly hope IMG don't have the same attitude. 

The game that delivers the biggest TV audience for a club game in the UK and the biggest attendance up to about 7 years ago is not something to just give up on.

I'm not saying give up on it at all. I'm just saying the days of it being the greatest RL match in the calendar is long over, and it isn't going to return to that status.

[Dave T]

15 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

As it's broadcast at a time for insomniacs and those at home during the say, probably sod all.

No, the Grand Final is around 4 or 5pm on the Sunday afternoon. People often forget that the BBC have covered the playoffs and Grand Final for years. 

[Dunbar]

7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I'm not saying give up on it at all. I'm just saying the days of it being the greatest RL match in the calendar is long over, and it isn't going to return to that status.

And I didn't say it should be the greatest RL match in the calendar. 

But a full house at Wembley and a continuation of a massive RL game in this country for almost a century that attracts a prime time Saturday BBC1 audience is a realistic ambition.

[17 stone giant]

I think it would be great to have both finals as free to air. You would then have the culminations of both league and cup competitions available to be seen. If someone new to RL sees a particular team win the Grand Final, it might encourage them to follow the progression of that team the following season. At the very least, it's a way of introducing people to the league format, as you could explain pre-match how the teams got there etc. Even with football, some people support a team because it was the first team they saw win the FA Cup. You'd have two finals to encourage people with.

[Gerrumonside ref]

55 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

And I didn't say it should be the greatest RL match in the calendar. 

But a full house at Wembley and a continuation of a massive RL game in this country for almost a century that attracts a prime time Saturday BBC1 audience is a realistic ambition.

I think you would have to scrap Magic and possibly the Grand Final format too.

You’re right to say we should not throw away all that tradition and prestige.

But I do think it’s the least out of our three big events and that would have to change by making sacrifices elsewhere.

[Gerrumonside ref]

Free to air or simulcast is a must for us.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Thats nice, but it pretty much is that already. It doesn't need massive changes to do that.

The "Make the Cup Great Again" crowd are sadly delusional imo

It can do better than attracting 2.5k at Warrington on a Sunday afternoon. 

There is plenty of opportunity for improvement. 

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Dave T said:

It can do better than attracting 2.5k at Warrington on a Sunday afternoon. 

There is plenty of opportunity for improvement. 

I suppose that is the cup more broadly rather than just the final but yes I agree the earlier rounds are particular contenders for improvement. I don't see IMG having a major impact on that without changing the structure of the competition however. 

[dboy]

29 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Get SL teams in a round earlier.  Have them play away so it feels traditional.  Batley vs Leeds.  York vs Pies.  Fev vs Wakey. 

Exactly. There is just no scope for "giant-killing" with the current format.

[Niels]

On 07/08/2022 at 18:28, JohnM said:

Grand Final is on terrestrial is an absolute must. 

If so, would the FtA rights income compensate for the reduced numbers though the turnstiles and possible reduction in Sky income?

The grand final is one of those occasions when I really am glad I work the extra hours to pay the money for Sky Sports.

I don't think sharing rights with terrestrial tv would be fair to existing customers.

 

 

[Toby Chopra]

8 hours ago, Niels said:

The grand final is one of those occasions when I really am glad I work the extra hours to pay the money for Sky Sports.

I don't think sharing rights with terrestrial tv would be fair to existing customers.

 

 

Obviously this would be in the next contract beginning in 2024, and you'd be free to decide if you thought Sky still repressed value for money. But would you drop Sky Sports just because one game was shared with FTA? 

I'm guessing very few would. 

[Dave T]

4 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

Obviously this would be in the next contract beginning in 2024, and you'd be free to decide if you thought Sky still repressed value for money. But would you drop Sky Sports just because one game was shared with FTA? 

I'm guessing very few would. 

I think there is a tipping point though. If you can watch 10 games a year, plus the grand final, plus pick up the rest on highlights and nip to the pub for a couple, you are at risk of people finding that it is not worth paying a fortune for Sky and getting a semi-regular fix of RL for free. 

But, that said, the RU Prem obviously have done it and BT appear happy. 

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Would be more than happy for one game a week fta then if people get a bug they we can have some sort of ppv option vía sky for people without subscription. 

I generally watch 1 live game a week, if I could get that free, Sky and their £100+ subscription starts to look less essential.