MRL - Multicultural Rugby League

[Sports Prophet]

2022 NRL figures

- 77 players born overseas

- 12% identify as Aboriginal or Torres Straight Islander

- 45% identify as Pacifica 

Highest national representation in NRL

1 Australian

2 New Zealand

3 Samoa

4 Tonga

5 Fiji

6 England (so how many English are there in the NRL?)

https://www.nrl.com/news/2022/03/21/deeper-bond-why-the-sharks-are-embracing-culture/ 

 

[Sports Prophet]

What’s so confusing @Mr Frisky?

[The Great Dane]

15 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

2022 NRL figures

- 77 players born overseas

- 12% identify as Aboriginal or Torres Straight Islander

- 45% identify as Pacifica 

Highest national representation in NRL

1 Australian

2 New Zealand

3 Samoa

4 Tonga

5 Fiji

6 England (so how many English are there in the NRL?)

https://www.nrl.com/news/2022/03/21/deeper-bond-why-the-sharks-are-embracing-culture/ 

 

It's a bit of a double edged sword though isn't it.

I mean it's great that people of diverse backgrounds are getting involved (which isn't anything new BTW), but on some level it's also concerning that roughly 4% of the Australian population (3% Indigenous and 1% Pacific Islander) are so disproportionately represented in the NRL and general participation statistics.

That fact has to say something about RL being totally outcompeted in many demographics (both ethnic and class), and utterly failing to appeal to other larger demographics, and will inevitably have unforeseeable impacts on the sport in the long term.

A few things are for sure though, the NRL needs to stop skimping on grassroot funding, particularly in the bush, "affiliated states", and smaller cities outside of Sydney and Brisbane, it needs to create strong incentives in the salary cap for developing local juniors, and it needs to learn to identify demographic changes within cities and regions and learn to adapt to them more quickly (which to be fair it's been much better at than most other sports in Australia).

It also needs to watch what the AFL is doing in the grassroots and actively fightback. The AFL actively targeting tactically important markets and totally outgunning the local RL institutions until they dominate the local grassroots without any resistance from the NRL needs to stop.

[UTK]

1 hour ago, The Great Dane said:

It's a bit of a double edged sword though isn't it.

I mean it's great that people of diverse backgrounds are getting involved (which isn't anything new BTW), but on some level it's also concerning that roughly 4% of the Australian population (3% Indigenous and 1% Pacific Islander) are so disproportionately represented in the NRL and general participation statistics.

That fact has to say something about RL being totally outcompeted in many demographics (both ethnic and class), and utterly failing to appeal to other larger demographics, and will inevitably have unforeseeable impacts on the sport in the long term.

A few things are for sure though, the NRL needs to stop skimping on grassroot funding, particularly in the bush, "affiliated states", and smaller cities outside of Sydney and Brisbane, it needs to create strong incentives in the salary cap for developing local juniors, and it needs to learn to identify demographic changes within cities and regions and learn to adapt to them more quickly (which to be fair it's been much better at than most other sports in Australia).

It also needs to watch what the AFL is doing in the grassroots and actively fightback. The AFL actively targeting tactically important markets and totally outgunning the local RL institutions until they dominate the local grassroots without any resistance from the NRL needs to stop.

It is in absolutely no way a "double-edged sword", the participation of ATSI and Pacific Islander individuals does not occur at the exclusion of other ethnic groups nor does it prevent the NRL funding grassroots programs in the bush/affiliated states (the bush has higher rates of ATSI population anyway) . 

 

[Mr Frisky]

4 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

What’s so confusing @Mr Frisky?

What about SL - on a UK RL forum.

[Sports Prophet]

23 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

What about SL - on a UK RL forum.

I haven’t seen any such article for SL.

this is a general forum. thought it was an interesting piece on diversity in RL that everyone would be interested in.

[Sports Prophet]

3 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

It's a bit of a double edged sword though isn't it.

I mean it's great that people of diverse backgrounds are getting involved (which isn't anything new BTW), but on some level it's also concerning that roughly 4% of the Australian population (3% Indigenous and 1% Pacific Islander) are so disproportionately represented in the NRL and general participation statistics.

That fact has to say something about RL being totally outcompeted in many demographics (both ethnic and class), and utterly failing to appeal to other larger demographics, and will inevitably have unforeseeable impacts on the sport in the long term.

A few things are for sure though, the NRL needs to stop skimping on grassroot funding, particularly in the bush, "affiliated states", and smaller cities outside of Sydney and Brisbane, it needs to create strong incentives in the salary cap for developing local juniors, and it needs to learn to identify demographic changes within cities and regions and learn to adapt to them more quickly (which to be fair it's been much better at than most other sports in Australia).

It also needs to watch what the AFL is doing in the grassroots and actively fightback. The AFL actively targeting tactically important markets and totally outgunning the local RL institutions until they dominate the local grassroots without any resistance from the NRL needs to stop.

I do think you are right on grassroots activity, but I don’t hold the same concern that such ethnic minorities make up such a large percentage of top level players. 

For one, many of those identifying as Pacifica will be Australian anyway. But more notably, it’s important that as many youth are engaged at a young age and no matter their ethnicity, remain fans of the sport into adulthood if not remaining as participants.

[Jughead]

It’s hilarious how pissy some people get about the NRL on here. 

Anyway, long live diversity. 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

77 NRL players were born overseas and 161 NRL players have a parent who was born overseas. That should make for a great World Cup. It would be good to see the stats in more detail, ie, how many NRL players were born in each country and how many are eligible internationally for each country. I remember seeing an article from maybe 5+ years ago how players from New Zealand in the NRL had increased significantly since the Warriors had joined the competition. 

Interesting that we think the NRL is poaching England’s best players, but there are more players born in each of Tonga, Samoa and Fiji than England in the NRL, England only rank 6th in place of birth for NRL players. 

[RL Tragic]

56 minutes ago, Jughead said:

It’s hilarious how pissy some people get about the NRL on here. 

Anyway, long live diversity. 

I’m all for that , however I think the fact that the pre season game of indigenous v Māori does anything but celebrate diversity. It is made up of two teams composed of people who categorise themselves as from a certain racial background and excludes all others . Surely this is the exact opposite of celebrating diversity. 

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, RL Tragic said:

I’m all for that , however I think the fact that the pre season game of indigenous v Māori does anything but celebrate diversity. It is made up of two teams composed of people who categorise themselves as from a certain racial background and excludes all others . Surely this is the exact opposite of celebrating diversity. 

The All Stars game is not intended to celebrate diversity. It is a celebration of ancient cultures of the lands where the NRL is played.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

77 NRL players were born overseas and 161 NRL players have a parent who was born overseas. That should make for a great World Cup. It would be good to see the stats in more detail, ie, how many NRL players were born in each country and how many are eligible internationally for each country. I remember seeing an article from maybe 5+ years ago how players from New Zealand in the NRL had increased significantly since the Warriors had joined the competition. 

Interesting that we think the NRL is poaching England’s best players, but there are more players born in each of Tonga, Samoa and Fiji than England in the NRL, England only rank 6th in place of birth for NRL players. 

They do take out best players though, how many Pacific Islanders there are playing is irrelevant. The difference is that many of those players were brought up in Australia or NZ  anyway, and their countries don’t have professional domestic leagues. 

[Eddie]

1 minute ago, Saint 1 said:

I think the comment is more about the fact that we are discussing a rate of measurement than anything. 57% of NRL players coming from 4% of the population could be a reflection of a very high concentration of RL within ATSI/PI communities, or it could just be a reflection of low levels of participation elsewhere (and overall). Hard to judge which of those it is without looking at overall participation numbers. 

Also natural propensity for Rugby League ability, on average south sea islanders seem to be bigger than people of European descent (not that I’ve seen any stats to confirm that) so may be genetically better suited to the game (on average). 

[RL Tragic]

14 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

The All Stars game is not intended to celebrate diversity. It is a celebration of ancient cultures of the lands where the NRL is played.

Fair point but looking at the NRL website that seems to be devoted to pushing diversity in sport it seems a little odd to have as it’s pre season showpiece a game purely selected on racial lines . I’m just wondering how Anglo-Saxons V Celts would go down with the British press , I would think it would rightly in my opinion be frowned upon as being exclusive as opposed to inclusive.  Just saying it’s a game where people of all races can’t play in it regardless of ability.

[Damien]

This diversity is obviously great but the true measure of these figures is to compare them against the general population. When you do it really illustrates how well represented the NRL.

A quick Google shows that in 2016 3.3% of the Australian population identified as being aboriginal or Torres Straight Islander so obviously the NRL compares fantastically well and is very well represented.

Pacifica is more difficult to measure but is no more than a few percent, even including Maori, so again the NRL is way over represented.

This is all great but the figures do also illustrate that the NRL is treading a fine line and needs to still make sure that it still appeals to the largest demographic i.e the 80% if Australians who are of European heritage. We all know the debates regarding kids playing against much bigger Polynesian kids and the NRL needs to make sure kids aren't put off playing the game and that mum's and dad's don't push their kids to perceived safer sports like Soccer.

[The Great Dane]

7 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I do think you are right on grassroots activity, but I don’t hold the same concern that such ethnic minorities make up such a large percentage of top level players. 

So it's no concern whatsoever that effectively 0% of NRL players, and only a tiny percent of broader participation numbers, are from Asian ethnicities despite them making up not quite 10% of the population and ever growing?

That RL has totally failed to have significant growth within middle class and upper class demographics despite decades of attempts?

That with the exception of a tiny pocket in WA and an even smaller one in Melbourne (both of which are mainly made up of expats anyway) RL has utterly failed to grow the sport outside of NSW, Qld, and the ACT despite that representing half of Australia's population?

That it's participation rate in the most important sex demographics, boys and men in the full contact version of the game, has been in decline for years, particularly in urban areas?

I could go on and on, but I'm sure you get the point; the problem isn't that PI's and Indigenous people are participating (again not that that is anything new) it's that the NRL and RL has totally failed to engage so many other demographics of all kinds, and doesn't seem to be even trying in most cases.

At the end of the day being big with 4% of population isn't going to mean much if RL is totally outcompeted in the other 96%, which though obviously being a little hyperbolic isn't totally unreflective of what is happening in most demographics across the country, and that ain't good.

[The Great Dane]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

We all know the debates regarding kids playing against much bigger Polynesian kids and the NRL needs to make sure kids aren't put off playing the game and that mum's and dad's don't push their kids to perceived safer sports like Soccer.

To be fair, I'm not sure what can actually be done about that problem.

It's my experience having in the past volunteered at local clubs for years (both League, Union, and briefly soccer), that mothers that are worried about such things have no intention of ever letting their kids play contact sports that they deem dangerous. The 'Polynesian kids are too big' thing is just another excuse in a long line of excuses, and even if it could be adequately addressed in a fair manner (which it can't be mind you), it won't make any difference as they'll just move on to another excuse.

My time was pre-CTE as well. It must be a nightmare now that CTE is a widely recognised phenomenon.

[The Rocket]

4 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

To be fair, I'm not sure what can actually be done about that problem.

It's my experience having in the past volunteered at local clubs for years (both League, Union, and briefly soccer), that mothers that are worried about such things have no intention of ever letting their kids play contact sports that they deem dangerous. The 'Polynesian kids are too big' thing is just another excuse in a long line of excuses, and even if it could be adequately addressed in a fair manner (which it can't be mind you), it won't make any difference as they'll just move on to another excuse.

My time was pre-CTE as well. It must be a nightmare now that CTE is a widely recognised phenomenon.

Read an interview with Ben Ikin, Bronco`s head of football, by Jessica Halloran, The Australian`s chief sports writer, the other day regarding head injury fears in the game. Ikin agreed with Halloran that he could see a time coming when there would be no contact allowed in the game up to the age of thirteen.

If they ban it in League they`ll have to ban it in the two other contact sports in this country and as far as I know League is the only sport that has any sort of viable alternative with Touch and Tag Rugby League. It would be a boon for soccer and basketball certainly, but apart from that I though it could actually work in League`s favour - if they can still get the kids playing Touch or Tag up to that age.

[Sports Prophet]

22 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

So it's no concern whatsoever that effectively 0% of NRL players, and only a tiny percent of broader participation numbers, are from Asian ethnicities despite them making up not quite 10% of the population and ever growing?

That RL has totally failed to have significant growth within middle class and upper class demographics despite decades of attempts?

That with the exception of a tiny pocket in WA and an even smaller one in Melbourne (both of which are mainly made up of expats anyway) RL has utterly failed to grow the sport outside of NSW, Qld, and the ACT despite that representing half of Australia's population?

That it's participation rate in the most important sex demographics, boys and men in the full contact version of the game, has been in decline for years, particularly in urban areas?

I could go on and on, but I'm sure you get the point; the problem isn't that PI's and Indigenous people are participating (again not that that is anything new) it's that the NRL and RL has totally failed to engage so many other demographics of all kinds, and doesn't seem to be even trying in most cases.

At the end of the day being big with 4% of population isn't going to mean much if RL is totally outcompeted in the other 96%, which though obviously being a little hyperbolic isn't totally unreflective of what is happening in most demographics across the country, and that ain't good.

I think you completely misrepresented my comment. Especially the part you quoted.

You see I do think all those things are a problem for the sport of Rugby League. I am just not overly concerned about the representation of other under represented minorities in the NRL.

BTW I think you will find that there is a very healthy representation of Asian players in the both Rugby League grassroots and the NRL. Heck, there was an Asian nation taking part in the last World Cup that were not far from making it to the quarter finals and the squad was made up almost exclusively of Australian born players.

[Sports Prophet]

I’m a little mixed on the no contact approach at juniors @ShropshireBull. I get the reasons for promoting that option and I agree with all of them.

I am less certain on the outcome of say non/minimal contact to age 16. That will leave a hell of a lot of coaching required at age 16. Not just tackling, but carrying the ball into contact.

Interesting theory you presented @The Rocket. I have never considered it that way. It’s got me thinking. The major competitor does have a touch or tag presence and I think it could pivot pretty easily to adapt to such a change, but still an interesting theory all the same.

[Mumby Magic]

On 22/03/2022 at 08:43, Mr Frisky said:

What about SL - on a UK RL forum.

Start counting them then.

[Deranged Drunk Guy]

Interesting posts from everyone.  

One tip guys , don't go changing the game for mums who don't want to let their offspring play the games for safety reasons.  

League is great because it seperates the warriors from the rest . 

Don't change what ain't broken. 

In regards to multi cultural round , I like it . Long may it continue.  

In regards to indigenous v Maori , I love it , I grew up in Fitzroy in the 90's , an inner Melbourne suburb , which was a ghetto back then , now it's all ritzy ditzy and hipster central.  

Fitzroy had a large aboriginal population back in those days . 

I started to love aboriginal history from a young age , they are in my heart and mind the real owners of this land. That's not political fyi , it's just stone cold FACT. 

I saw first hand the discrimination against indigenous people , I vowed to fight against it as long as I breathed.  

Kudos to the NRL on indigenous v Maori , long may it continue , I wear indigenous jersey with pride.  

[Deranged Drunk Guy]

On 24/03/2022 at 02:58, Sports Prophet said:

I’m a little mixed on the no contact approach at juniors @ShropshireBull. I get the reasons for promoting that option and I agree with all of them.

I am less certain on the outcome of say non/minimal contact to age 16. That will leave a hell of a lot of coaching required at age 16. Not just tackling, but carrying the ball into contact.

Interesting theory you presented @The Rocket. I have never considered it that way. It’s got me thinking. The major competitor does have a touch or tag presence and I think it could pivot pretty easily to adapt to such a change, but still an interesting theory all the same.

No contact until age 16 would destroy our sport.  

Carrying the ball into contact is a key skill that needs to b learned from a young age . 

By 16 , it's ti late . 

Ppl promoting these ideas of no contact until age 16 , are trying to destroy our sport.  

I urge true RL fans to fight against this. 

 

[Deranged Drunk Guy]

On 22/03/2022 at 21:57, RL Tragic said:

I’m all for that , however I think the fact that the pre season game of indigenous v Māori does anything but celebrate diversity. It is made up of two teams composed of people who categorise themselves as from a certain racial background and excludes all others . Surely this is the exact opposite of celebrating diversity. 

This is rubbish . Are you all there ? Playing with a full wicket? 

 

[Deranged Drunk Guy]

On 22/03/2022 at 23:01, Sports Prophet said:

The All Stars game is not intended to celebrate diversity. It is a celebration of ancient cultures of the lands where the NRL is played.

Correct . 

RL tragic hopefully reads this , and grows his IQ , if possible.