Odsal Sports City

[Oxford]

What a depressing thread pity this type aren't the locked down ones.

[Hemi4561]

8 minutes ago, Oxford said:

What a depressing thread pity this type aren't the locked down ones.

Why, because you don't like it, or some other person's post?

[Oxford]

Just now, ShropshireBull said:

Depressing maybe but realistic.

Not a great defence for a truly pessimistic set of ideas.

If I didn't like RL to the extent I do I'm sure this would put me off.

 

[Oxford]

Just now, Hemi4561 said:

Why, because you don't like it, or some other person's post?

Nothing to do with either

[Hemi4561]

6 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Nothing to do with either

So why do you think it should be locked?

[Hemi4561]

20 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Depressing maybe but realistic. Getting Bulls back to even 7 k average would be a big short term boost to the sport that could be a launchpad for regrowth as they are more likely to be able to compete near the middle and top of SL rather than scrabble but Bulls like so many of are clubs are infrastructure black holes. It really has to be priority number one for the sport. 

How do you believe that Bradford would be able to compete anywhere in SL, given all the factors that caused their failures, even during their heyday which we now know was built on sand? Given that those factors are still in play would being gifted a stadium of any sort allow Bradford to become a genuine force?

This a genuine question to you Shropshirebull.

[Ragingbull]

6 minutes ago, Hemi4561 said:

How do you believe that Bradford would be able to compete anywhere in SL, given all the factors that caused their failures, even during their heyday which we now know was built on sand? Given that those factors are still in play would being gifted a stadium of any sort allow Bradford to become a genuine force?

This a genuine question to you Shropshirebull.

I have to agree. As Ive said on another thread, we arent even competing in the Championship so why people keep banging on about SL reallly is beyond me.  

 

 

[Dallas Mead]

2 hours ago, Hemi4561 said:

Population of approx 530,000.Nearly 66% of the 143 square miles that "Bradford" covers is rural. According to google I live 11.7 miles from the tip. I will let you research which areas were swallowed up in 1974 to create "Bradford" and since then have paid their taxes to be spent no where near where the money came from. Have you seen the pxxs puddle in Bradford city centre?, it cost 24.4 million. In short "Bradford"  as far as rugby league goes comprises of probably less than 1% of the total population, in 2011 more than 26% of the population were of south east Asian ethnicity which we know means they aren't interested. Of the other nearly 300,000 Bradfordians maybe 50,000 curse "Bradford" as a failed political construct, and as for "Bradford Bulls" I could probably find 5000 people who would be very happy if they had gone out of business years ago.

 

How’s about trying to get that 26% of the population interested in RL then?  Or is it genetically and culturally impossible?

[Hemi4561]

1 minute ago, ShropshireBull said:

Yes because those factors were a stadium that swallowed money even in the good times and was papered over by the cracks of strong crowds and marketing. 

Were Bulls to have a stadium that didnt eat money or dare i say it, actually generated rev i feel the club could run break even or small surplus with a 7k average and give SL  (or Sky) back two really big games and a dozen more telivisable ones.  

Would we dominate?  No and thats ok, it would be another playoff mixing club.  

This is where we diverge. You are presumably working on the premise that Bradford would placed into "Superleague" rather than earning promotion to it. You would then have money to pay some players but without a wealthy backer you would be at the bottom of the pile.

No revenue,no sugar daddy, just the same super league cash that the other teams get.

[Dallas Mead]

1 minute ago, ShropshireBull said:

Immigrant groups are less likely to have any historical connection to local activities and tend to follow more international or brand teams.  Amount of Madrid fans here who live in Getafe or Leganes because they arent spanish is an easier identity to blend into. 

Also cricket has a bucket load of cash for young people of that demographic and already a cultural connection .

Even if none of them were interested (unlikely) thats still a market of 300,000 plus that is larger than lots of other places. 5k crowds in a non dump at champ level wouldnt be impossible and 7/8k at SL. 

But surely as the years go by that argument is more and more bobbins?  A large proportion of that 26% will have been born here and identify as being from Bradford/Yorkshire/Britain?  If not then that’s our problem to solve not theirs…..so solve it!

[Hemi4561]

7 minutes ago, Dallas Mead said:

How’s about trying to get that 26% of the population interested in RL then?  Or is it genetically and culturally impossible?

I truly don't know the answer to that. Obviously it is nothing to do with genetics. Whether there is cultural ambivalence to RL, or actual cultural rejection of RL, or something else I have no idea. I am sure many of the clubs that have large asian populations around them have tried various initiatives over the recent years but it would seem that they have little effect on attracting either players from a junior level, or large scale spectator support

[Hemi4561]

"Even if none of them were interested (unlikely) thats still a market of 300,000 plus that is larger than lots of other places. 5k crowds in a non dump at champ level wouldnt be impossible and 7/8k at SL. "

Are you saying that their is a market of 300,000 in Bradford for Bradford RL to tap into, because if you are then your missing the essence of my post.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Hemi4561
Quote

[Hemi4561]

15 minutes ago, Dallas Mead said:

But surely as the years go by that argument is more and more bobbins?  A large proportion of that 26% will have been born here and identify as being from Bradford/Yorkshire/Britain?  If not then that’s our problem to solve not theirs…..so solve it!

No it's not our problem to solve, if a third generation asian born anywhere in this country chooses to identify as Bangladeshi, Pakistani or Martian then that's there choice. I don't see that as a problem to be solved.

[Hello]

In 1999 Bradford managed to get a home crowd of 24,020 for a league fixture (I'm sure that most on here are aware that the figure was in this region).  There is a large population in the Bradford area in terms of traditional RL teams. Times change in terms of popularity of sports, but few northern hemisphere clubs indeed can boast such attendance figures at any point in their history, and, speaking as someone who is not an actual supporter of Bradford, their loss from the top table seems a kick in the gonads for the general health of the game. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Hello

[Hemi4561]

13 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

You asked me a question about what I thought as a 'genuine question '. So I dont need to agree with the essence of your post.  Its less disengenuous and easier for you to just say "I dont think Bulls have any viable future". 

What I will say is that Bulls future is not based an potential catchment of 300,000 just because that number live in the Bradford Metropolitan District. Bulls would be lucky to attract more than 15000 to show any interest in the next 10 years,unless they rehash history and stàrt giving out free tickets to schoolchildren in Calderdale.

 

 

 

[Hemi4561]

Bulls highest attendances in any given Superleague season have been against Leeds,one season possibly against Wakefield. Sure enough that figure is against Leeds,  how many Leeds supporters do you suppose travelled ? It's less distance from Headingley to Odsal than it is from my house, takes ten minutes less to drive, and I live in "Bradford".

Not sure what you mean by your second sentence " there is a large population..."

[steve oates]

8 hours ago, Hemi4561 said:

Bulls highest attendances in any given Superleague season have been against Leeds,one season possibly against Wakefield. Sure enough that figure is against Leeds,  how many Leeds supporters do you suppose travelled ? It's less distance from Headingley to Odsal than it is from my house, takes ten minutes less to drive, and I live in "Bradford".

I lived in Pudsey then and I went to a Bradford Bulls game against London. There were the usual London gang of about 50 lads who did the away trips in the 13,000 crowd. 

I don't really see what Bradford's population or ethnicity has to do with the attendances. Go to Manchester on a Wigan matchday and see the Manchester based Wigan fans going to the game.  I know Saints fans who live in Liverpool. One Castleford fan told me he goes to every game with his mates none of whom are from Castleford......

When the Bulls marketing department were ramping up support for the early Superleage bulls they didn't have a map of the Bradford postcodes on the wall. They sold as far and as wide as they could, especially south of Bradford, into west Leeds, up towards keighley  I was 10 minutes from Odsal.  I can't remember the name of the Marketing Director even though his achievements were legendary.

But I do remember the Batley Chairman complaining hard about the Bulls sending season ticket vans into the centres of Batley, Deswbury, Keighley, Morley etc anywhere they could get a sale. 

[Martyn Sadler]

11 hours ago, Hello said:

In 1999 Bradford managed to get a home crowd of 24,020 for a league fixture (I'm sure that most on here are aware that the figure was in this region).  There is a large population in the Bradford area in terms of traditional RL teams. Times change in terms of popularity of sports, but few northern hemisphere clubs indeed can boast such attendance figures at any point in their history, and, speaking as someone who is not an actual supporter of Bradford, their loss from the top table seems a kick in the gonads for the general health of the game. 

The tragic thing is that the club didn't use that crowd figure and others from that era, with all the enthusiasm that was so apparent at the club in those days, to draw new investment into the club both to develop the team and the stadium.

After that, the club made a series of bad decisions that it struggled to recover from.

[Dallas Mead]

12 hours ago, Hemi4561 said:

No it's not our problem to solve, if a third generation asian born anywhere in this country chooses to identify as Bangladeshi, Pakistani or Martian then that's there choice. I don't see that as a problem to be solved.

The “problem to be solved” is getting a LOT more people from Bradford watching Bradford, regardless of skin colour.  Bradford Bulls surely can’t just say “oh that 26% over there will never be interested in RL”.  What have they tried in terms of engaging the Asian community?

[The Future is League]

4 minutes ago, Dallas Mead said:

The “problem to be solved” is getting a LOT more people from Bradford watching Bradford, regardless of skin colour.  Bradford Bulls surely can’t just say “oh that 26% over there will never be interested in RL”.  What have they tried in terms of engaging the Asian community?

They need more schools in Bradford and the surrounding areas playing Rugby League, which will see more people from different grounds playing the game, which can only be a positive for the game.

Over to you Nige

[Dallas Mead]

15 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

They need more schools in Bradford and the surrounding areas playing Rugby League, which will see more people from different grounds playing the game, which can only be a positive for the game.

Over to you Nige

Absolutely.

 

”Over to you Nige”.  Well that job’s knackered already then….

[RBKnight]

A couple of points that have been under-played in this thread :-

1) Any grant awarded from "levelling up" funds would NOT be to furnish the Bulls with a decent ground to play in - it would have far wider criteria to meet. Since Bradford Council have another pro RL club in their patch (who will be playing in the Championship next year alongside the Bulls) they won't be able to just give a favour to one team. If the long shot of levelling-up funds do arrive, any Odsal development would only incidentally help the Bulls, but won't change the cost of the RFL lease, the ridiculous pitch, etc, etc.....

2) The current state of the pitch is directly the responsibility of the current Bulls management - it will have been tied up with the stock car racing requirements when the Bulls made the trumpeted return to Odsal from Dewsbury. Over to you Nigel.....

[steve oates]

1 hour ago, The Future is League said:

They need more schools in Bradford and the surrounding areas playing Rugby League, which will see more people from different grounds playing the game, which can only be a positive for the game.

Over to you Nige

As far as I know the Bradford Bulls still run a development Foundation they kept despite relegation, and therefor have strived for years to promote playing the game??

Maybe a Bulls fan can confirm?? 

[Hemi4561]

1 hour ago, RBKnight said:

A couple of points that have been under-played in this thread :-

1) Any grant awarded from "levelling up" funds would NOT be to furnish the Bulls with a decent ground to play in - it would have far wider criteria to meet. Since Bradford Council have another pro RL club in their patch (who will be playing in the Championship next year alongside the Bulls) they won't be able to just give a favour to one team. If the long shot of levelling-up funds do arrive, any Odsal development would only incidentally help the Bulls, but won't change the cost of the RFL lease, the ridiculous pitch, etc, etc.....

2) The current state of the pitch is directly the responsibility of the current Bulls management - it will have been tied up with the stock car racing requirements when the Bulls made the trumpeted return to Odsal from Dewsbury. Over to you Nigel.....

You have highlighted a point I only alluded to, politics. Levelling up grants will not be made to give Bulls a new stadium. BMDC has a duty to all its residents not just less than 5000 who to a hole in the ground in Wibsey. Never mind Odsal Sports Village, let's have a Bradford sports Village located near the geographical, or population, or travel time centre of BMD. Shipley perhaps. 

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, Dallas Mead said:

The “problem to be solved” is getting a LOT more people from Bradford watching Bradford, regardless of skin colour.  Bradford Bulls surely can’t just say “oh that 26% over there will never be interested in RL”.  What have they tried in terms of engaging the Asian community?

Well on my first ever visit to Odsal ( the infamous Gleason/Long betting game ) in 2004 , pre match consisted of a gold adorned Elephant on wheels being dragged round the ' track ' complete with Bollywood dancers and various other ' Asian ' cultural references 

It will be interesting to see how the ' culture ' of Bradford is recognised in their upcoming Year