An idea for the NRL/RFL

[Barley Mow]

10 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

Just so I've got it clear, rainbow on shirt = political, poppy on shirt = non-political?

Both are political.

Our players shouldn't be pressured into having either.

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

Our sport was of course formed out of politics - a drive for inclusion. I don't think any of us would argue against us continuing to push to include as many people as possible in the game.

There doesn't need to be any overarching campaign for that, it's just a matter of being welcoming and outward looking. Although a 'The greatest game - for all' type campaign wouldn't be political, it would be for everyone no matter what their politics/immutable characteristics.

Beyond that, our clubs do some great community outreach work and stuff like donating left over match day food and things. Again, if this isn't being aimed at particular groups based on their politics, religion, culture or other identities, but is truly inclusive then I don't have any issues. 

The problem seems to come when the organisers select specific groups to focus their energies at - based on race or sexuality, etc. Not only can this mean that there are religious objections to 'promoting sinful lifestyles', etc, but by focusing on a particular group you can't focus on the others and it therefore always becomes political because you are favouring a particular group or cause.

If we stuck to promoting RL being welcoming for all (rather than specific groups), it keeps the political angle out of it and as a society we can just promote equal treatment for everyone.

Cricket has specific drives to increase South Asian and Afro-Caribbean participation.

You would, presumably, be against rugby league doing the same?

[RL Tragic]

11 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

Just so I've got it clear, rainbow on shirt = political, poppy on shirt = non-political?

As a patriot and having served in her majesty’s I’m inclined to turn red and go crazy at your post , But on reflection there is a discussion there to be had .

[Barley Mow]

11 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Cricket has specific drives to increase South Asian and Afro-Caribbean participation.

You would, presumably, be against rugby league doing the same?

I think I would probably be against a strategy that set out specifically to aim to attract a particular race of people over other races.

But if the aim was to increase the number of kids in, say, Bradford who are playing the game; then I would be making sure that events were organised that were convenient or sensitive to the cultural norms of South Asian Muslims, due to them being a significant part of the population - so don't organise events on Fridays or during times of fasting, provide food that they will be able to eat, etc.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Barley Mow

[gingerjon]

Just now, Barley Mow said:

I think I would probably be against a strategy that set out specifically to aim to attract a particular race of people over other races.

They are specific, discretely funded programmes targeting those ethnic groups exclusively. (Certainly in the South Asian programme case, I'm not 100% about the Afro-Caribbean one as I think it allows for some inclusion of other 'hard to reach' inner-city groups).

It's not a gotcha, I'm after, I just think there will always (rightly) be exceptions to what sometimes look like decent hard/fast rules.

I also think we too easily fall into believing that RL is always a welcoming sport because it welcomes people like us and we're nice people, aren't we?

[Barley Mow]

6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

They are specific, discretely funded programmes targeting those ethnic groups exclusively. (Certainly in the South Asian programme case, I'm not 100% about the Afro-Caribbean one as I think it allows for some inclusion of other 'hard to reach' inner-city groups).

It's not a gotcha, I'm after, I just think there will always (rightly) be exceptions to what sometimes look like decent hard/fast rules.

I also think we too easily fall into believing that RL is always a welcoming sport because it welcomes people like us and we're nice people, aren't we?

I'm sure it isn't always a welcoming sport to everyone. That is something I'm more than happy to stand alongside people to improve. That's really the basis of my original post - let's make sure we welcome everyone - not just specific groups.

On whether we are nice - I'll give you a rough estimate on the percentage of nice people at the end of this thread!

Edited July 26, 2022 by Barley Mow

[RP London]

21 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I also think we too easily fall into believing that RL is always a welcoming sport because it welcomes people like us and we're nice people, aren't we?

I'm not.. 

[RP London]

16 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

I'm sure it isn't always a welcoming sport to everyone. That is something I'm more than happy to stand alongside people to improve. That's really the basis of my original post - let's make sure we welcome everyone - not just specific groups.

On whether we are nice - I'll give you a rough estimate on the percentage of nice people at the end of this thread!

dammit hadnt read your post before replying to GJs! 

[Barley Mow]

1 minute ago, RP London said:

dammit hadnt read your post before replying to GJs! 

I'll mark you down in the 'no' column!

[RP London]

Just now, Barley Mow said:

I'll mark you down in the 'no' column!

excellent thank you... I'm glad to be included  

[Copa]

2 hours ago, Saint 1 said:

And to be more topical to the NRL, pink/purple shirts in solidarity with Women and Anzac themed shirts are also non-political. But a rainbow is political.

When I was younger people would have complained more about indigenous recognition rounds if we had them back in the day.

These days I only hear a few people whinging, saying it’s divisive or “where’s the NRL round for white people?”

[StandOffHalf]

I couldn't agree more.

I wanted to add something to the Manly thread last night, but it was locked.

I hadn't realised that it is actually Women in League Round this weekend. That, I think, makes it even more strange how the club has foisted a differently-themed jumper on blind-sided players - for a round that is designed to celebrate WOMEN in RL.

Leave it to TV, clubs, players in their off time to push, celebrate and support causes. I support keeping the field of play free from added issues of contention (religion, sex, politics, etc.).

Edited July 27, 2022 by StandOffHalf

[gingerjon]

3 hours ago, Saint 1 said:

And to be more topical to the NRL, pink/purple shirts in solidarity with Women and Anzac themed shirts are also non-political. But a rainbow is political.

Reading FC managing to bypass the rules about political messages on shirts.

[RigbyLuger]

5 hours ago, Billy King's Boots said:

Seems that some Rugby League fans still need the occasional reminder not to be an a55-hole.

And trying to play down the chants in a thread here.

[RL Tragic]

6 hours ago, gingerjon said:

That's usually how it goes.

Marine abseiling in to a ground to hand over the match ball before we sing a Christian song and then a prayer to the monarch = also non political.

My reasoning on that is that it falls in to the same Cultural bracket as the Hakka would for Kiwis , Christianity and the monarchy have been part of and the basis of ( like it or loath it ) English culture for over 1500 years . 

[The Future is League]

8 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Speaking of Mal Meninga, this whole situation has the potential to get ugly, Meninga will be cursing the NRL because they`ve probably just made it a whole lot harder for him to convince a significant number of players to turn out for Oz.

Alternatively they`ve probably just made it easier for some of the Pacific Islands to recruit players, who may now view it as some sort of religious crusade.

I suspect privately that a majority of people in Australia from all walks of life support the actions of the Manly. 7. People are sick of having being told to them they must do this, but you can't do or say that shoved down their throats. Minority groups should stop forcing their views on other people. Keep sport and politics apart.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

Just so I've got it clear, rainbow on shirt = political, poppy on shirt = non-political?

Both are political. Irish players have recieved abuse for refusing to wear a poppy.

[StandOffHalf]

I think poppies should be optional as well.

A symbol of commemoration to some/most, but a politicized pro-conflict symbol to others.

[GUBRATS]

3 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

I think poppies should be optional as well.

A symbol of commemoration to some/most, but a politicized pro-conflict symbol to others.

I thought they were 

[StandOffHalf]

3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

I thought they were 

Players - especially in soccer - are hounded and abused if they don't wear one.

For the NZ series a few years back, England had a special Remembrance shirt for one of the test matches that was festooned with a front of red poppies against the white of the shirt. I wonder what would have happened if a player said they weren't comfortable wearing that jersey. They probably would have had to stand down, as these Manly players have over in Oz.

[StandOffHalf]

I was reading an article (England's rugby league team to wear shirt covered in poppies against New Zealand (inews.co.uk)) about that poppy shirt in 2018, and this quote sort of sums up why I think some are uneasy with such celebration. 

Simon O’Leary, the Royal British Legion’s Assistant Director of Fundraising, said: “The First World War left so many legacies that positively impact our lives today, from ground-breaking social change to pioneering innovations''.

For me, war isn't something to be venerated or jingoistically celebrated. I feel a hollow sadness when I think of so many wasted young lives sent over the top to be blown to smithereens.

Edited July 27, 2022 by StandOffHalf

[RayCee]

Britannica Dictionary definition of TOLERANCE

1 : willingness to accept feelings, habits, or beliefs that are different from your own.

 

It doesn't say agree with, but accept. It is a challenge to feel comfortable with others when their feelings, habits, or beliefs conflict with strongly held opinions of our own. However, that is what tolerance is all about. A person can be passionate about their values and beliefs, yet be tolerant at the same time. 

[Anita Bath]

34 minutes ago, RayCee said:

Britannica Dictionary definition of TOLERANCE

1 : willingness to accept feelings, habits, or beliefs that are different from your own.

 

It doesn't say agree with, but accept. It is a challenge to feel comfortable with others when their feelings, habits, or beliefs conflict with strongly held opinions of our own. However, that is what tolerance is all about. A person can be passionate about their values and beliefs, yet be tolerant at the same time. 

And that applies to all sides, and i expect  thats what you meant by posting this RayCee.  Nothing to say the Manly players are not tolerant. I hope those criticising them can show the same tolerance.

 

[The One]

At the end of the day, it’s just a few vibrant colours on a shirt.

[Copa]

Hilarious 

https://www.betootaadvocate.com/sports/manly-boys-to-celebrate-night-off-with-pokies-session-followed-by-some-coked-up-group-sex/?fbclid=IwAR08JXrWlE4OanIYh9cbtAlrB5JdVcLzGC9VHfvUE-To4mb7kjEVcV-1soE