Standards of UK Journalism

[Wolford6]

I don't have any interest or affection for Ryan Giggs. However, his Trial has been front page news for weeks. It seemed to me that all the newspapers concentrated on his admitted serial infidelity and an (admittedly damning) text trail  to his ex-partner.

However, at the end of a several-week court hearing the jury could not agree on a verdict, indicating that there was an establishment of blameful behaviour from both plaintiff and defendant. It appears to me that the reportage up to that point could not have been balanced or the eventual verdict would not be such a surprise.

Obviously, different newspapers put a differing slant on political issues, but this trial had no political context.

How much trust can we put in general Fleet Street reportage?

Edited August 31, 2022 by Wolford6

[Gerrumonside ref]

41 minutes ago, Wolford6 said:

I don't have any interest or affection for Ryan Giggs. However, his Trial has been front page news for weeks. It seemed to me that all the newspapers concentrated on his admitted serial infidelity and an (admittedly damning) text trail  to his ex-partner.

However, at the end of a several-week court hearing the jury could not agree on a verdict, indicating that there was an establishment of blameful behaviour from both plaintiff and defendant. It appears to me that the reportage up to that point could not have been balanced or the eventual verdict would not be such a surprise.

Obviously, different newspapers put a differing slant on political issues, but this trial had no political context.

How much trust can we put in general Fleet Street reportage?

Manchester United legend and millionaire with expensive legal team isn’t found guilty in trial conducted at Manchester Crown Court.

 

[gingerjon]

11 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Manchester United legend and millionaire with expensive legal team isn’t found guilty in trial conducted at Manchester Crown Court.

 

It's exactly this.

He remains accused and can now do the whole circuit about how his completely undestroyed life has been destroyed. I imagine that will earn him a few quid on the circuit of people who like to feel sorry for such folk. I doubt there will be a retrial.

As for the reporting ... like all court/trial reporting, the headlines are the hook but I didn't see anything that went beyond what you would expect to see covered in such a case.

[amm]

I am not defending him but..

If we did not know his or her name, and they only referred to them as Mr X and Miss Y, would it even be in the media? 
People, including me, have made up their own minds prior to it even reaching court because it’s Ryan Giggs. 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

It's not hard for a skilled legal team to get their client out of a mess like this. The key phrase is simply, "prove it was him". You say about a damming text trail; where's the proof he sent the texts? Just because they were from his phone doesn't mean he sent them. Someone could have swiped his phone when he wasn't looking and sent them. You and me of course know it was probably him but you can't actually prove that. And that's all his lawyers have to say when any but of evidence comes up that isn't literally a video of him doing something or something with his DNA on it. Very easy to be a defence lawyer, I know, I started training to be one after college and then realised I wanted to have an enjoyable life. 

[gingerjon]

16 minutes ago, amm said:

I am not defending him but..

If we did not know his or her name, and they only referred to them as Mr X and Miss Y, would it even be in the media? 
People, including me, have made up their own minds prior to it even reaching court because it’s Ryan Giggs. 

I'd be more forgiving of that view of Giggs hadn't been the beneficiary of a superinjunction a few years back.

[Red Willow]

9 hours ago, gingerjon said:

I'd be more forgiving of that view of Giggs hadn't been the beneficiary of a superinjunction a few years back.

Or if he hadn't had an affair with his own brother's wife? Whatever the truth he doesn't come out of it well.

[graveyard johnny]

the press can't even get his name right to be fair - isn't Ryan Wilson the guy who they are reporting on?

[JohnM]

That was his birth name. . It's now Ryan Joseph Giggs. 

[RayCee]

Since when has the UK media have standards of journalism? 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

4 hours ago, RayCee said:

Since when has the UK media have standards of journalism? 

Everything in the world has standards. It's just that some standards are set higher (or lower) than others. 

[gingerjon]

11 hours ago, JohnM said:

That was his birth name. . It's now Ryan Joseph Giggs. 

"Even my mum calls me Elton" was said singer's response when an interviewer called him Reginald Dwight.

[JohnM]

6 hours ago, RayCee said:

Since when has the UK media have standards of journalism? 

In my opinion, standards of reporting here are very high in the responsible media: BBC, Times, Telegraph, Private Eye.

[tonyXIII]

10 minutes ago, JohnM said:

In my opinion, standards of reporting here are very high in the responsible media: BBC, Times, Telegraph, Private Eye.

I notice that you omitted the Guardian.

Your distinction between 'reporting' and 'journalism' is interesting. Was it deliberate?

My personal gripe with 'journalists' is their poor standard of grammar and spelling. For many of these people, who make their living by using the language, their grasp of the English language is not as good as it should be. IMO, of course.

[JohnM]

I onl included outlets with significant audience sizes. 

In any case, it would have been a political comment for me to have written that my mention of the BBC icluded the Guardian...so I didn't.

Really my point is that much that is termed "journalism" is merely "reporting" what someone else has said. 

Edited September 2, 2022 by JohnM

[JohnM]

It's come to something where the (excellent)  BBC News Web site has to have a section called "Longer Reads". Too many other media outlets focus on headlines and outlines.

[Gerrumonside ref]

5 hours ago, JohnM said:

I onl included outlets with significant audience sizes. 

In any case, it would have been a political comment for me to have written that my mention of the BBC icluded the Guardian...so I didn't.

Really my point is that much that is termed "journalism" is merely "reporting" what someone else has said. 

https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2021/jul/28/the-guardian-most-widely-used-newspaper-website-and-app-for-news-according-to-ofcom

Think it needs to be in your list regardless of your political hue.

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Gerrumonside ref

[RayCee]

7 hours ago, JohnM said:

In my opinion, standards of reporting here are very high in the responsible media: BBC, Times, Telegraph, Private Eye.

The only reason I mentioned the UK journalistic standard was in reply to the op. It wasn't about whether the UK has a unique issue. 

Journalistic standard is subjective, dependent on the opinion of the media outlet and the reader. You mention 'responsible media' John and while I get your point, everyone will have their own definition of which media qualifies.

General dissemination of information is usually OK but once the information lends itself to even a hint of controversy, objectivity goes out the window. Even 'responsible media' is not immune to that. 

When I do have a good knowledge of a subject or events, I invariably see some level of story twisting by the media. It makes me suspicious of reporting when I don't have sufficient knowledge.

A journalistic standard I would value is to be given the bare facts so that I can come to my own conclusion. 

[JohnM]

Understood. I'm trying really to differentiate the activity of reporting from the activity of journalism, which as you say, is usually interpretive in some way. For me, this means looking at multiple outlets to get as far as possible the full story, rather than just the headlines.

[Gerrumonside ref]

35 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Understood. I'm trying really to differentiate the activity of reporting from the activity of journalism, which as you say, is usually interpretive in some way. For me, this means looking at multiple outlets to get as far as possible the full story, rather than just the headlines.

I agree, the media should be your starting point for information, but not the end of the journey, that includes a deeper dive and the keeping of an open mind.

Its hard to read things that challenge your worldview although it’s healthy to do so.

Then keep asking questions along the way.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Gerrumonside ref

[Maximus Decimus]

Criticising the level of journalism is just absurd.

I just read a hard-hitting article about how Giggs' ex-girlfriend went out for a run the other day.

[Gordon Street]

Marina Hyde, Jonathan Friedland and, John Crace are brilliant. Can't stand Paul Routledge. I find Allison Pearson and her ilk a hoot. 

 

[JohnM]

On 03/09/2022 at 20:08, Gordon Street said:

Marina Hyde, Jonathan Friedland and, John Crace are brilliant. Can't stand Paul Routledge. I find Allison Pearson and her ilk a hoot. 

 

Dont be daft. This isn't the political sub forum, you know. Unless you meant your post to go in the "joke" thread. It about standards of journalism not Islington demagogery.

[Gordon Street]

On 05/09/2022 at 02:26, JohnM said:

Dont be daft. This isn't the political sub forum, you know. Unless you meant your post to go in the "joke" thread. It about standards of journalism not Islington demagogery.

I have no idea where they live. I just enjoy their writing. I find the fact that you have taken the trouble to know know a little creepy. Where do Pearson, Sarah Vine, Julia Hartley-Brewer and the rest live: Batley? I don't know where the ghastly Paul Routledge lives either although I went to school with him. He was a couple of years ahead of me. I enjoy reading Jay Rayner, Grace Dent, Mark Kermode, George Monbiot and Jeremy Clarkson. I have no interest in cars and can't drive, but Clarkson writes knowledgeably and wittily. He also has something worthwhile to say, whether one agrees with him or not, on the environmental benefits or otherwise of electric cars. 

 

On 05/09/2022 at 02:26, JohnM said:

Dont be daft. This isn't the political sub forum, you know. Unless you meant your post to go in the "joke" thread. It about standards of journalism not Islington demagogery.

 

[Wolford6]

A great Paul Routledge story.

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/extraordinary-story-behind-mirror-mans-1832717