2 up from the champ in 2023?

[paul hicks]

23 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

The clubs can't afford less than 27 games in a season. We can clamour for less fixtures all we like, but I doubt they'll accept less pay for it.

they can afford 26 games in the season as the magic weekend is hardly a cash cow for any club 

[Mumby Magic]

6 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Oh I agree. But will that quality bring in more money than the extra quantity? Chairman think no.

That's where we go wrong as you've probably stated previously. An organised international schedule can generate revenue for the RFL. Of which it is struggling for at the moment. It doesnt always have to be the Aussies now either. I always feel with RL we have the keys to a beautiful future in alot of ways but don't know how to turn the key. 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

2 hours ago, paul hicks said:

they can afford 26 games in the season as the magic weekend is hardly a cash cow for any club 

Do you know how much it earns the clubs?

[Dave T]

I hate it when people call for shorter seasons.  There aren't too many fans of sports who ask for less of their sport. 

We have 30 rounds of SL,  and an additional 4 Challenge Cup rounds.  34 weeks (if we scrapped double weekends)  and if we had maybe another 4 or 5 for internationals,  then we have coverage for around 38 weeks of the year.  Not being a thing for 14 weeks is quite a long time, and we need to be careful that we don't become invisible -  our coverage isn't exactly great as it is. 

That said,  I have some sympathy with some of Jughead's point about clubs throwing games -  the LLS battle ended up a bit of a farce tbh and it's times like that when you realise that as a game we often get what we deserve in terms of partners and broadcast deals when clubs treat the comp with contempt. 

I don't think the solution is cutting the season,  but I'm not sure just carrying on as we are is the answer either. 

[David Shepherd]

34 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I hate it when people call for shorter seasons.  There aren't too many fans of sports who ask for less of their sport. 

We have 30 rounds of SL,  and an additional 4 Challenge Cup rounds.  34 weeks (if we scrapped double weekends)  and if we had maybe another 4 or 5 for internationals,  then we have coverage for around 38 weeks of the year.  Not being a thing for 14 weeks is quite a long time, and we need to be careful that we don't become invisible -  our coverage isn't exactly great as it is. 

That said,  I have some sympathy with some of Jughead's point about clubs throwing games -  the LLS battle ended up a bit of a farce tbh and it's times like that when you realise that as a game we often get what we deserve in terms of partners and broadcast deals when clubs treat the comp with contempt. 

I don't think the solution is cutting the season,  but I'm not sure just carrying on as we are is the answer either. 

Make the league leaders champions, have meaningful prize money for the champions.

then have a separate top 4 premiership competition (sound familiar?) but make it all about the players - £1m to share among the 17 winning players.

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

Make the league leaders champions, have meaningful prize money for the champions.

then have a separate top 4 premiership competition (sound familiar?) but make it all about the players - £1m to share among the 17 winning players.

I don't think we need to go so drastic,  I think it'd undermine the grand final and itd go back to being a 40k event at Old Trafford. 

I think a huge prize for league leaders would do something. 

[GUBRATS]

42 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I don't think we need to go so drastic,  I think it'd undermine the grand final and itd go back to being a 40k event at Old Trafford. 

I think a huge prize for league leaders would do something. 

Like ' money ' ? 

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Like ' money ' ? 

Yes,  serious money.  I miss big cheques. 

[paul hicks]

6 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Do you know how much it earns the clubs?

no but I'm told the clubs don't get a share of the gate money so apart from the same of shirts i can't see it be a lifesaving amount

[paul hicks]

8 hours ago, Mumby Magic said:

That's where we go wrong as you've probably stated previously. An organised international schedule can generate revenue for the RFL. Of which it is struggling for at the moment. It doesnt always have to be the Aussies now either. I always feel with RL we have the keys to a beautiful future in alot of ways but don't know how to turn the key. 

does that translate into as much as more fixtures for a club would. 

take leeds more than like close on 14 thousand a game next season at home would their share make up for that. same goes for a number of other clubs

[Wellsy4HullFC]

4 hours ago, paul hicks said:

no but I'm told the clubs don't get a share of the gate money so apart from the same of shirts i can't see it be a lifesaving amount

Told by who?

The original Magic Weekend concept allowed the season to be reduced by a game due to the money it provided.

If it provided the clubs no benefits, it'd have been scrapped a long time ago.

[Mumby Magic]

5 hours ago, paul hicks said:

does that translate into as much as more fixtures for a club would. 

take leeds more than like close on 14 thousand a game next season at home would their share make up for that. same goes for a number of other clubs

I get that but that makes it that clubs and SL league clubs are taking control. Surely it should be the RFL.

[bobbruce]

14 hours ago, paul hicks said:

they can afford 26 games in the season as the magic weekend is hardly a cash cow for any club 

You don’t think Sky pay any money to have 6 games from the same stadium with minimum set up costs. People are forgetting magic isn’t an extra game we used to have 28 rounds magic allowed us to drop one. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

12 hours ago, Dave T said:

I hate it when people call for shorter seasons.  There aren't too many fans of sports who ask for less of their sport. 

We have 30 rounds of SL,  and an additional 4 Challenge Cup rounds.  34 weeks (if we scrapped double weekends)  and if we had maybe another 4 or 5 for internationals,  then we have coverage for around 38 weeks of the year.  Not being a thing for 14 weeks is quite a long time, and we need to be careful that we don't become invisible -  our coverage isn't exactly great as it is. 

That said,  I have some sympathy with some of Jughead's point about clubs throwing games -  the LLS battle ended up a bit of a farce tbh and it's times like that when you realise that as a game we often get what we deserve in terms of partners and broadcast deals when clubs treat the comp with contempt. 

I don't think the solution is cutting the season,  but I'm not sure just carrying on as we are is the answer either. 

How about less League games, but more Cup games either through a Challenge Cup group phase (guaranteed home games there) and/or another Cup competition format.

These are suggestions that have been made by others and I can see their merits/demerits - what the sport does have is a lot of lovely defunct trophies that could be repurposed.

The ‘regular’ league season is too long and to me this is a big reason why we debate the playoff system so much.

Lets get radical and change stuff - it’s in our blood!

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

How about less League games, but more Cup games either through a Challenge Cup group phase (guaranteed home games there) and/or another Cup competition format.

These are suggestions that have been made by others and I can see their merits/demerits - what the sport does have is a lot of lovely defunct trophies that could be repurposed.

The ‘regular’ league season is too long and to me this is a big reason why we debate the playoff system so much.

Lets get radical and change stuff - it’s in our blood!

Yes,  I'm a fan of thinking about how we use our week's,  but I'm not a fan of less RL. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

48 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yes,  I'm a fan of thinking about how we use our week's,  but I'm not a fan of less RL. 

I’m coming around to this way of thinking that the only limiting factors on our domestic season should be player welfare and having windows to play an international calendar.

We should applaud ourselves for the success that is the Grand Final and keep looking at ways to keep it popular and not rest on our laurels in terms of fan experience.

Magic is obviously really liked by TV and fans who want a big day out/weekend feel with their team involved - another thing that has worked, but should also be under constant review on how we can optimise this event.

The Challenge Cup has a history and tradition that money can’t buy.  It’s like a plant that is not as healthy as it once was and needs nursing back to full bloom (do plants bloom? Maybe not haha).

The playoffs are an area to target for growth.  You would expect near capacity grounds and rocking atmospheres in anticipation of the big one.  There’s been some occasions like this but not many.

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Gerrumonside ref

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I’m coming around to this way of thinking that the only limiting factors on our domestic season should be player welfare and having windows to play an international calendar.

We should applaud ourselves for the success that is the Grand Final and keep looking at ways to keep it popular and not rest on our laurels in terms of fan experience.

Magic is obviously really liked by TV and fans who want a big day out/weekend feel with their team involved - another thing that has worked but should also be under the how can we optimise this event.

The Challenge Cup has a history and tradition that money can’t buy.  It’s like a plant that is not as healthy as it once was and needs nursing back to full bloom (do plants bloom? Maybe not haha).

The playoffs are an area to target for growth.  You would expect near capacity grounds and rocking atmospheres in anticipation of the big one.  There’s been some occasions like this but not many.

 

The saddest thing imo about club RL is that we are further than ever away from a World Club Championship. 

This is the natural next step,  mirroring RU and Football with their international club tournaments. 

It felt like we were maybe working towards something with the 3 game series' a few years back,  and then it all became too difficult and we gave up. I'd move heaven and earth to try and create a plan that sees English,  French,  Aussie,  Kiwi teams playing off. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The saddest thing imo about club RL is that we are further than ever away from a World Club Championship. 

This is the natural next step,  mirroring RU and Football with their international club tournaments. 

It felt like we were maybe working towards something with the 3 game series' a few years back,  and then it all became too difficult and we gave up. I'd move heaven and earth to try and create a plan that sees English,  French,  Aussie,  Kiwi teams playing off. 

It would be amazing.

[paul hicks]

4 hours ago, Mumby Magic said:

I get that but that makes it that clubs and SL league clubs are taking control. Surely it should be the RFL.

throughout the game's history the clubs have been in control and not even a massive media company will change that

[paul hicks]

4 hours ago, bobbruce said:

You don’t think Sky pay any money to have 6 games from the same stadium with minimum set up costs. People are forgetting magic isn’t an extra game we used to have 28 rounds magic allowed us to drop one. 

my understanding is that the money goes into the league's coffers. i know leeds have said they make more out of shirt sales and transport than they do out of the actual game.

as for 27 rounds been less than 28 yes indeed but there again 26 is also a nice even number and does not need a contrived fixture which at times just picks teams who happen to be close to one another to play a game 

[Damien]

3 hours ago, Dave T said:

The saddest thing imo about club RL is that we are further than ever away from a World Club Championship. 

This is the natural next step,  mirroring RU and Football with their international club tournaments. 

It felt like we were maybe working towards something with the 3 game series' a few years back,  and then it all became too difficult and we gave up. I'd move heaven and earth to try and create a plan that sees English,  French,  Aussie,  Kiwi teams playing off. 

The trouble is geography and a place for it in the calendar (and that is before you get to the reluctance of NRL clubs). I simply do not see how such a tournament is possible to any meaningful degree without taking the place of internationals. RU and Football international club tournaments take place inside the domestic season, that just is never going to happen in RL. Even what we do get is shoehorned in preseason for NRL clubs which immediately devalues it. We have essentially one international window and even struggle to get internationals played in that.

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

The trouble is geography and a place for it in the calendar (and that is before you get to the reluctance of NRL clubs). I simply do not see how such a tournament is possible to any meaningful degree without taking the place of internationals. RU and Football international club tournaments take place inside the domestic season, that just is never going to happen in RL. Even what we do get is shoehorned in preseason for NRL clubs which immediately devalues it. We have essentially one international window and even struggle to get internationals played in that.

It's why I think we are further away than ever from it. I think the monetary value of a half decent tournament would be worthwhile for SL,  which would allow us to probably free up a few weeks to slot it in.  I don't think it would add up for NRL clubs and I think it would be a real challenge for them to support it. 

I think as things stand we can only really get 1 week,  and even that isn't happening right now. 

[Damien]

11 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's why I think we are further away than ever from it. I think the monetary value of a half decent tournament would be worthwhile for SL,  which would allow us to probably free up a few weeks to slot it in.  I don't think it would add up for NRL clubs and I think it would be a real challenge for them to support it. 

I think as things stand we can only really get 1 week,  and even that isn't happening right now. 

I love summer rugby but there have been negative unforeseen consequences. One of the huge perceived benefits was meant to be both hemispheres playing at the same time and this allowing for more international club and country games. This has just never materialised and it seems to have made these issues worse, not better.

[Fevrover]

15 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Like ' money ' ? 

Yeah what else ?

[Mumby Magic]

7 hours ago, paul hicks said:

throughout the game's history the clubs have been in control and not even a massive media company will change that

Not said that. Clubs shouldnt be in control. They should have a casting vite as it were but not in control. We seem a leader shy sport. I feel someone should take control and drag our sport by the preverbials. We have no confidence in our selves. Clubs shouldnt lead a sport.