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4 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Can you honestly say when everyone has been available, McIllorum has been one of the best two 9's available to England? Plenty of players get a game due to injury etc but he's now apparently our best 9 at the back end of his career. It's pretty depressing to be honest.

To be fair, 9 has gone from being one of our strongest positions to a worry.

Roby is retired from internationals and so lamenting his absence is worthless.  After that Clark, Leeming and McShane.  Clark on form is the best of these and I would still have had him in over McIloram today.

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39 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Agree about McIlorum.

Cooper I am hoping will not be a walk up starter with Burgess and Thompson available who weren't there for the midweek game.

I don't think Sneyd is past his prime.  I think he is playing as well as he has ever done.

Not trying to be too argumentative.  I agree with a couple as I say but that should be balanced with very good young talents like Farnworth and Welsby getting a chance to prove themselves internationally.

I'd agree that Sneyd is playing as well as he ever has and that's part of the appeal I guess, in that you know what you'll get. He's a good player, good kicking game etc and I've nothing against him. The point really is that he's never been close before and now he's first choice. We've gone from a situation in 2013 where we're arguing over man of steels Danny Brough, Rangi Chase, Sinfield and a coming into his prime Widdop with people like McGuire and Burrow hardly getting a look in to Sneyd being the last man standing. 

I love Farnworth and Welsby but Farnworth hasn't played for 6 months and no one can seem to figure out where Welsby is going to play (I hope he starts because he actually has some x-factor) because we need to accommodate a 43 year old Sam Tomkins. Very few other young players coming through. 

This is a worse squad than 17 and 13, demonstrated by blokes who couldnt get in then now in the squad and starting 17.

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7 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Oh Dear,

Hill,Cooper,Hall,Mcllorum,over the hill plodders who should be nowhere near an England squad & a halfback in Williams who hasn’t put in a decent performance for 18 months.

Have to agree with everything there.

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7 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

To be fair, 9 has gone from being one of our strongest positions to a worry.

Roby is retired from internationals and so lamenting his absence is worthless.  After that Clark, Leeming and McShane.  Clark on form is the best of these and I would still have had him in over McIloram today.

Clarke's omission is probably the most surprising considering he's played at this level before and on his day can change a game. He's picked Williams based on potential performance from a misfiring Warrington, so surprising he didn't do the same with Clarke. Guess he didn't play for Wigan did he.

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16 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

I'd agree that Sneyd is playing as well as he ever has and that's part of the appeal I guess, in that you know what you'll get. He's a good player, good kicking game etc and I've nothing against him. The point really is that he's never been close before and now he's first choice. We've gone from a situation in 2013 where we're arguing over man of steels Danny Brough, Rangi Chase, Sinfield and a coming into his prime Widdop with people like McGuire and Burrow hardly getting a look in to Sneyd being the last man standing. 

I love Farnworth and Welsby but Farnworth hasn't played for 6 months and no one can seem to figure out where Welsby is going to play (I hope he starts because he actually has some x-factor) because we need to accommodate a 43 year old Sam Tomkins. Very few other young players coming through. 

This is a worse squad than 17 and 13, demonstrated by blokes who couldnt get in then now in the squad and starting 17.

I would personally suggest (as I have banged on here for ages about) that we have selected our half backs on the wrong criteria anyway.

We should have selected them on their kicking game first and foremost as it is one of the most critical parts of the modern game.  I was advocating for his inclusion before we lost Lomax.

And I would definitely have Welsby in the 13.  Probably alongside Sneyd so that Sneyd can boss the game and Welsby can add an attacking spark.

Edited by Dunbar
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7 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Mark Sneyd is our first choice 7

Just let that sink in 

I see it already has with the bookies ...we are now out to 14-1 rank outsiders 

For what it's worth I still think we'll beat Samoa easily....just not Aus or NZ

There's no natural stand off in that squad, is Shaun Wane going to rely on Welsby or Tomkins ?

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25 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

To be fair, 9 has gone from being one of our strongest positions to a worry.

Roby is retired from internationals and so lamenting his absence is worthless.  After that Clark, Leeming and McShane.  Clark on form is the best of these and I would still have had him in over McIloram today.

I have thought for a while that McIlorum would be in the squad. Full Back Halves and Hooker are possibly the main key positions in the game today and in those positions he has gone for players he coached at Wigan. 

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There wasn't a chance in the world that Bateman was going to be left out of this squad.  He has a Wane type of player written all over him.

And I'm OK with that.  In a game of Rugby League you need characters in the team who are always going to put their hands up and get in the opposition faces.  Bateman is one of those.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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7 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

There wasn't a chance in the world that Bateman was going to be left out of this squad.  He has a Wane type of player written all over him.

And I'm OK with that.  In a game of Rugby League you need characters in the team who are always going to put their hands up and get in the opposition faces.  Bateman is one of those.

Correction, he used to be one of those, not anymore, if ever someone has been selected for what he once could do it's John Bateman.

Pity he got sent off in the semi against Leeds so early, of the two enforcers Bateman and Bentley the latter seemed like the seasoned been there done that professional who got on with his job, a newbie to the game watching that match would not have noticed Bateman by his performance if they didn't know his name, just as they wouldn't in countless other games this season and last he has been bang average, he should be nowhere near the England team.

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2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Correction, he used to be one of those, not anymore, if ever someone has been selected for what he once could do it's John Bateman.

Pity he got sent off in the semi against Leeds so early, of the two enforcers Bateman and Bentley the latter seemed like the seasoned been there done that professional who got on with his job, a newbie to the game watching that match would not have noticed Bateman by his performance if they didn't know his name, just as they wouldn't in countless other games this season and last he has been bang average, he should be nowhere near the England team.

I disagree.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I disagree.

I kind of agree. Never really seen the hype with Bateman.

LMS (as a bad example) gets in people's faces too. And has an epic workrate. But I assume you wouldn't pick him. ( I know he's Irish and probably retired from internationals. But imagine he wasn't.)

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39 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Would you back against Aus and NZ contesting the final if they were on different halves of the draw?

Honest answer please

I don’t bet but this is the most wide open World Cup we’ve had with Australia,NZ weakened by defections,a really strong Samoa & Tonga,a full strength England side would have had a real chance too, but again why should a team (Australia) be ranked 1 when they rarely play Test Rugby.

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6 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

I don’t bet but this is the most wide open World Cup we’ve had with Australia,NZ weakened by defections,a really strong Samoa & Tonga,a full strength England side would have had a real chance too, but again why should a team (Australia) be ranked 1 when they rarely play Test Rugby.

OK Dav you don't bet so I will rephrase the question:-

If NZ and Aus were in the opposite side of the draw would you expect the final to be contested by any other nation other than these two?

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8 minutes ago, Stuff Smith said:

I kind of agree. Never really seen the hype with Bateman.

LMS (as a bad example) gets in people's faces too. And has an epic workrate. But I assume you wouldn't pick him. ( I know he's Irish and probably retired from internationals. But imagine he wasn't.)

I mentioned this on here a while ago but I will say it again.

I remember like it was yesterday, in the World Cup Final of 2017, the Kangaroos were putting huge pressure on the Emglish line.  They had just forced a line drop out and Johnny Lomax was sat in the in goal with his head down.  I remember Bateman leaning over him yelling at him to get up.  I think you need that attitude in a team and when I look through the England squad I want to pick out the players who will push the others on in a tough game.  Bateman is 100% one of them. 

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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3 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I mentioned this on here a while ago but I will say it again.

I remember like it was yesterday, in the World Cup Final of 2017, the Kangaroos were putting huge pressure on the Emglish line.  They had just forced a line drop out and Johnny Lomax was sat in the in goal with his head down.  I remember Bateman leaning over him yelling at him to get up.  I think you need that attitude in a team and when I look through the England squad I want to pick out the players who will push the others on in a tough game.  Bateman is 100% one of them. 

Not for the action in 2017, but the rest of your post 

I Disagree.

I would not have done previously, but this version we see of John Bateman today is a mere shadow of the one we all admired.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Not for the action in 2017, but the rest of your post 

I Disagree.

I would not have done previously, but this version we see of John Bateman today is a mere shadow of the one we all admired.

 

 

Well, apart from anything else.  He has been playing mostly in the middle for Wigan which is not his best position.  He is far far better on the edge / second row.

Wane has picked Knowles and Radley and loads of props so Bateman should be back on the edge where he should be.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I mentioned this on here a while ago but I will say it again.

I remember like it was yesterday, in the World Cup Final of 2017, the Kangaroos were putting huge pressure on the Emglish line.  They had just forced a line drop out and Johnny Lomax was sat in the in goal with his head down.  I remember Bateman leaning over him yelling at him to get up.  I think you need that attitude in a team and when I look through the England squad I want to pick out the players who will push the others on in a tough game.  Bateman is 100% one of them. 

I remember that too. But it's not enough. Not now.

And it's not some anti-Wigan bias. I'd pick (the current) Farrell over (the current) Bateman. If he were fit.

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8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

OK Dav you don't bet so I will rephrase the question:-

If NZ and Aus were in the opposite side of the draw would you expect the final to be contested by any other nation other than these two?

The World Cup draw was made in January 2020, there's a fair argument that the number 1 & 2 sides at that time were placed in the opposite sides of the draw. I the intervening years New Zealand look like they have strengthened, and England have weakened, that doesn't invalidate the draw in my opinion. whoever makes the final from England's side of the draw will beat some very good teams.

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