Thur 2nd Mar: SL: Warrington Wolves v Salford Red Devils KO 20:00 (Sky)

[Chrispmartha]

5 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

The best teams generally get decisions not because it's loaded that way it is they are usually dominant and the opposition is on the back foot. 

Which was the crux of Rowleys point last night.

[Phil]

Apart from the Brierley sin binning which I thought was a tad harsh I think the ref had a good game, it wasn’t his fault Salford imploded in the second half.

Over the years I’ve watched many tries and thought “that should be an 8 pointer” now it would appear they’re being implemented, good, it will stop cheap shots on try scorers

[ELBOWSEYE]

25 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Which was the crux of Rowleys point last night.

I have not said anything about Rowleys comments. There were decisions that were or were not given in both halves, Salford deserved their lead but to put the come back down to the officials is ridiculous. Warrington took advantage of a slowing Salford and scored some really good tries. Both coaches will have work to do with how their own teams performed and also every team practices for 12 man situations whether the call was fair or otherwise. To say that defined the result says more about Salfords ability to cope with adversity. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by ELBOWSEYE

[Chrispmartha]

2 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

I have not said anything about Rowleys comments. There were decisions that were or were not given in both halves, Salford deserved their lead but to put the come back down to the officials is ridiculous. Warrington took advantage of a slowing Salford and scored some really good tries. Both coaches will have work to do with how their own teams performed and also every yeams practices for 12 man situations whether the call was fair or otherwise. To say that defined the result says more about Salfords ability to cope with adversity. 

Neither Rowley or me has put the come back down to the officials.

[ELBOWSEYE]

Just now, Chrispmartha said:

Neither Rowley or me has put the come back down to the officials.

No its a general comment than specific to you, so I apologise to you and Rowley if you thought it was aimed at you. 

[Chrispmartha]

2 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

No its a general comment than specific to you, so I apologise to you and Rowley if you thought it was aimed at you. 

No problem.

 

[SalfordSlim]

4 hours ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

He also stated that the linesman was in line with Thewlis and would have called if he was offside. 

Jeremy Beadle's lovechild (or the TJ you're referring to) is useless. He couldn't see my fat arris if it was sat on his face.

Thewlis was miles offside. 

FWIW, Salford didn't help themselves in that 10 mins after half-time with some poor mistakes but after the initial onslaught we managed to get away with only conceding 4 points. We then broke downfield and got a penalty 10 metres out that Sneyd subsequently missed.

When the pen was awarded Sneyd signalled to the coaching staff to take the 6 again but was obviously overruled. Poor option IMO as a try there would've put us 3 scores clear again.

We all know what happened then and against a pack of that size and with a dangerous spine you're going to struggle to stop the momentum once it builds. The sin-bin effectively sealed our fate unfortunately.

Having slept on things I'm not too down-hearted. Our first half performance was excellent and with a bit more discipline we'll be a top half team.

[SalfordSlim]

2 hours ago, binosh said:

There is no other team in SL that slow the game and ruck down in defence like Salford, it’s a Rowley tactic.

Some of their play they got away with at Leigh but last night the ref pinged everything. 

I'll give you Wigan and Saints for starters. Anyone else like to add to the list?

[ELBOWSEYE]

6 minutes ago, SalfordSlim said:

Jeremy Beadle's lovechild (or the TJ you're referring to) is useless. He couldn't see my fat arris if it was sat on his face.

Thewlis was miles offside. 

FWIW, Salford didn't help themselves in that 10 mins after half-time with some poor mistakes but after the initial onslaught we managed to get away with only conceding 4 points. We then broke downfield and got a penalty 10 metres out that Sneyd subsequently missed.

When the pen was awarded Sneyd signalled to the coaching staff to take the 6 again but was obviously overruled. Poor option IMO as a try there would've put us 3 scores clear again.

We all know what happened then and against a pack of that size and with a dangerous spine you're going to struggle to stop the momentum once it builds. The sin-bin effectively sealed our fate unfortunately.

Having slept on things I'm not too down-hearted. Our first half performance was excellent and with a bit more discipline we'll be a top half team.

I agree with most of the points you make, the offside will be peoples opinions unless we see a better camera angle. But from Salfords point of view there were positive things, the way you cut Warrington to pieces, Dupree was good (apart from the brain explosion) but both teams will have plenty to work on especially in defence. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Chrispmartha said:

I agree but Rowleys frustration and I think he has a point, is that Salford blew wire apart in the first half with 10 or so line breaks and didn’t get one six again.

I too thought the ref was pretty lenient soth Wire in the first half.

Warrington got a lot of luck with the bounce of the ball in the first ten of the second half and they took full advantage so fair play to them. The ref didn’t cost SRD the game.

I think to counter that view we could look at the fact that Salford were able to get on the front foot, move the defence around the pitch and find gaps exactly because Wire weren't controlling the ruck. I'd suggest that Salford had all of the ball and were having some real success zipping the ball around the field. That won't necessarily lead to loads of set restarts, I don't think it's as simple as linking it to clean-breaks. I'd say Wire's defence was too passive in that first half, which was a big worry.

I like Paul Rowley, I appreciate coaches that like their teams to play entertaining Rugby, but there is little doubt that he coaches with a certain style which includes an element of victim mentality, which can be good in terms of pulling teams together, but I found it interesting that even in an interview during the game when they were winning, Rowley's comments were simply a moan at the ref. Seeing Brierley arguing when binned is also a common feature of his teams. 

[Chrispmartha]

19 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think to counter that view we could look at the fact that Salford were able to get on the front foot, move the defence around the pitch and find gaps exactly because Wire weren't controlling the ruck. I'd suggest that Salford had all of the ball and were having some real success zipping the ball around the field. That won't necessarily lead to loads of set restarts, I don't think it's as simple as linking it to clean-breaks. I'd say Wire's defence was too passive in that first half, which was a big worry.

I like Paul Rowley, I appreciate coaches that like their teams to play entertaining Rugby, but there is little doubt that he coaches with a certain style which includes an element of victim mentality, which can be good in terms of pulling teams together, but I found it interesting that even in an interview during the game when they were winning, Rowley's comments were simply a moan at the ref. Seeing Brierley arguing when binned is also a common feature of his teams. 

In fairness Daryl Powell is probably the biggest moaner of all the coaches in SL - apart from when they win, strange that

[ELBOWSEYE]

11 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

In fairness Daryl Powell is probably the biggest moaner of all the coaches in SL - apart from when they win, strange that

Also in fairness we had a coach who never moaned and accepted what happened on the pitch and at the disciplinary Tony Smith, so we are due a moaner. 

[Damien]

3 hours ago, binosh said:

There is no other team in SL that slow the game and ruck down in defence like Salford, it’s a Rowley tactic.

Some of their play they got away with at Leigh but last night the ref pinged everything. 

All teams slow down the ruck as much as they can in defence. It always seems odd to me to try and single out individual teams for it.

[RP London]

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Conversely Dave, no evidence was produced to say they were correct.

to be fair that isnt what the VR is there for necessarily. Its why there is an on field call, if there is sufficient evidence to overturn the decision then they can but otherwise they refer to the officials who are watching live.. it was ever thus.

It is hard to see on the camera angles etc but that is the rule and is the same rule for ALL teams when VR is used. The Ref gives his initial thoughts (ie if there was no VR what would he call) and it is up to the VR, on instruction of what to look for, to see if there is a reason to overturn that call. If not then the onfield decision stands. That will be the same at every game with a VR. 

[Dave T]

43 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

In fairness Daryl Powell is probably the biggest moaner of all the coaches in SL - apart from when they win, strange that

I didn't want to open that can of worms!

I think Powell is slightly different in that he is just a moaning b***ard overall, and tbh, I struggle to find him likeable. I like Rowley though, and I do think his moaning is a little more intentional/tactical.

[Dave T]

This claim of offside for Thewlis' try is bizarre. It's approaching Twitter conspiracy stuff.

There is literally no evidence that he was offside, but some fans are saying he was, just because.

There is absolutely no reason for Thewlis to be offside. The rest of his teammates were onside by a few metres, it would be weird for Thewlis to be metres ahead of them and in front of the kicker. He didn't need any advantage as there were no defenders for miles. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Dave T

[idrewthehaggis]

IMG will be purring this morning. Sensational entertainment. Rowleyball, the comeback kids, refereeing controversies. Somewhere someone somehow is always happy.

And there are currently far more worrying failings than a RL game. Brexit, Putin , them Tories and how MI5 is utterly useless. Whilst here, there and everywhere might dwell sadness on Planet RL, it's all relative. 

As a Red, the positives was the way that team rolled Wire in the first, the downside is how they rolled over afterwards. Poor discipline, lack of respect for the ball, a couple of below par performances did not help triumph a resurgent Warrington. 

But as binary as this can be depicted, nothing can escape the "curious" officials performance. None of this is good.

I will be sincere is saying second half Salford missing tackles, dropping passes, poor concentration, being overwhelmed by a bigger pack fuelled Warrington's W. But it was made so much easier and smoother by the KY jelly injected by the chuckle brotherhood of referees.

First up, if our refs have been instructed to rule differently on possible 8pt penalty tries and holding down, then why do the Game's authorities (yet again) keep this secret?

Second if I tortured myself to re watch last night next to the SRD-Saints semi final of last year, you might come to a conclusion that this is two separate codes of rugby.

One had a penalty try dismissed, when a trip foul occurs, another or two is awarded on the seemingly flimsiest of robust challenges in the most robust of all sports. As for the Brierley sin bin, I can fathom why, but I can't accept this was correct.  That, the apparent selective VR blindness on offsides and incessant six agains, pretty much boiled this game for me.

 I won't criticize Moore and Riley. Cannon and Ball, Laurel and Hardy plus Morecambe and Wise are other comedy duos. It is not that they, like lots of RFL refs,  are bent, biased or stupid, they are simply just not good enough and thus are quickly found out.

Whilst the Reds rolled over, the Refs rolled down the hill sharply. Crashing the game.

I feel more sorrow for them. I hope they can learn when they inevitably are dropped next week for the lower leagues.

Lastly while I have a real fondness for the Wires, (favour made by the club/Brian Johnson back in the day) it saddens me about a less than attractive sneeriness there now. Dufty wind up clapping the Salford end, Drinkwater pleading for a sinbin, exclusively playing an "oh no" noise over the PA when Sneyd misses a penalty, even the Wolfie club mascot riling Salfordians?! Shabby and not welcomed. Stop it. You are better than this.

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by idrewthehaggis

[Barry Badrinath]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I think to counter that view we could look at the fact that Salford were able to get on the front foot, move the defence around the pitch and find gaps exactly because Wire weren't controlling the ruck. I'd suggest that Salford had all of the ball and were having some real success zipping the ball around the field. That won't necessarily lead to loads of set restarts, I don't think it's as simple as linking it to clean-breaks. I'd say Wire's defence was too passive in that first half, which was a big worry.

I like Paul Rowley, I appreciate coaches that like their teams to play entertaining Rugby, but there is little doubt that he coaches with a certain style which includes an element of victim mentality, which can be good in terms of pulling teams together, but I found it interesting that even in an interview during the game when they were winning, Rowley's comments were simply a moan at the ref. Seeing Brierley arguing when binned is also a common feature of his teams. 

it was a bit toronto wasn't it

[Barry Badrinath]

20 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I didn't want to open that can of worms!

I think Powell is slightly different in that he is just a moaning b***ard overall, and tbh, I struggle to find him likeable. I like Rowley though, and I do think his moaning is a little more intentional/tactical.

i dont like his body language during games, its not great when he's got his head in his hands, head on the desk after mistakes, its a terrible look for mine

[Barry Badrinath]

18 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This claim of offside for Thewlis' try is bizarre. It's approaching Twitter conspiracy stuff.

There is literally no evidence that he was offside, but some fans are saying he was, just because.

There is absolutely no reason for Thewlis to be offside. The rest of his teammates were onside by a few metres, it would be weird for Thewlis to be metres ahead of them and in front of the kicker. He didn't need any advantage as there were no defenders for miles. 

he wasn't offside at all, we got that perfect, burgess was covering at fb on the other side of the field during the ashton half break, we had pretty much a two man over lap with lafai covering centre and wing, thewlis was calling for it and accelerating the moment  williams looked up.

[Dave T]

20 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This claim of offside for Thewlis' try is bizarre. It's approaching Twitter conspiracy stuff.

There is literally no evidence that he was offside, but some fans are saying he was, just because.

There is absolutely no reason for Thewlis to be offside. The rest of his teammates were onside by a few metres, it would be weird for Thewlis to be metres ahead of them and in front of the kicker. He didn't need any advantage as there were no defenders for miles. 

One final point to add to this - watching the slow motion pitch-level replay, you can clearly see the touchy shouting 'ONSIDE' as he runs just behind Thewlis.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Barry Badrinath said:

he wasn't offside at all, we got that perfect, burgess was covering at fb on the other side of the field during the ashton half break, we had pretty much a two man over lap with lafai covering centre and wing, thewlis was calling for it and accelerating the moment  williams looked up.

Yep. The only reason for it being called offside is because some people want it to be offside. 

[dkw]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

Apart from the Brierley sin binning which I thought was a tad harsh I think the ref had a good game, it wasn’t his fault Salford imploded in the second half.

Over the years I’ve watched many tries and thought “that should be an 8 pointer” now it would appear they’re being implemented, good, it will stop cheap shots on try scorers

I thought the binning was harsh, but it wasnt really a surprise as he had pinged Salford several times on the bang for it, and most likely had warned Salford they were on the verge of a binning. It was a blatant holding down too. 

On the 2nd half change around I dont think it was on the ref at all, Wire got right in the faces and put immense pressure on, both with and without the ball and Salford just didnt handle it. They were scrambling in defence for pretty much the entirity of the first 15 minutes of the 2nd half.

On the 8 pointers, the one with knees in was fully deserved, its ridiculously dangerous and more importantly totally unnecessary. the slap one was harsh in my opinion, though by the rules its easy to class as reckless so I can see why it was given.

Shame the 2nd half swung so much though, I was kind of hoping Wire would score a couple to get back in to see where Salford would go, but they capitulated and the game pretty much petered out as a contest. Still thoroughly enjoyed it though.

[SalfordSlim]

50 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Stop it. You are better than this.

I'll bite my tongue on this one.

[Dave T]

15 minutes ago, dkw said:

 

On the 8 pointers, the one with knees in was fully deserved, its ridiculously dangerous and more importantly totally unnecessary. the slap one was harsh in my opinion, though by the rules its easy to class as reckless so I can see why it was given.

 

I've been thinking about this one, and I'm not sure what the genuine alternative is here. 

For anyone saying there should be no punishment, we are basically arguing that we should legalise foul play. I have seen it presented by various people that it was accidental, but my understanding is that it is still foul play, and a penalty. Of course accidental may be treated less severely, i.e just a penalty instead of yellow or red, but I don't think there is anywhere to go below the minimum of a penalty.

Ultimately Watkins' tackle was directly to Dufty's jaw - and I'm not sure how that can be re-classified to be deemed as play on.