Do IMG's proposals promise a brighter future for Rugby League?

[Martyn Sadler]

Here is my decidedly mixed view on the subject.

[The Blues Ox]

Quote

I find it hard to imagine a more deflating experience for supporters than winning the Championship Grand Final but then discovering that a team that finished several points lower will get the promotion spot simply because it has half-a-point more than the team that has actually won the competition.

And that team could be as much as 1.5 points behind on the normal gradings and only get in because of where they are based ahead of a team that is better run and more successful on the field.

[Jughead]

I don’t like promotion and relegation but we should keep promotion and relegation. Yeah, nice one. 

Edited March 14 by Jughead

[David Dockhouse Host]

Here's our latest episode.

 

An inside look at that IMG meeting

What happened, what was said and how it all works

 

 

[sam4731]

To be honest, given that IMG's decision was to scrap P&R, I actually don't mind how they are doing it. I would only make 1 modification:

12 team Super League, bottom team is (at risk). If the team that wins the championship is at the 7.5 point threshold, they replace team 12 in Super League, if not team 12 keeps their place.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

1 hour ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

Here's our latest episode.

 

An inside look at that IMG meeting

What happened, what was said and how it all works

 

 

 

Good grief, I just watched most of that, that's time I'll never get back. What a pair of moaners. You can just imagine how that attitude went down in the room

As for Martyn, a good summary might be "I think relegation doesn't work, but I'm not sure I think all this new fangled 'no promotion' lark is a great idea". Er, okaaaay....!!

 

[GUBRATS]

34 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

To be honest, given that IMG's decision was to scrap P&R, I actually don't mind how they are doing it. I would only make 1 modification:

12 team Super League, bottom team is (at risk). If the team that wins the championship is at the 7.5 point threshold, they replace team 12 in Super League, if not team 12 keeps their place.

Why not 7.6 ? . Or 7.4 ? , Or 2.0 ? 

[GUBRATS]

24 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

 

Good grief, I just watched most of that, that's time I'll never get back. What a pair of moaners. You can just imagine how that attitude went down in the room

As for Martyn, a good summary might be "I think relegation doesn't work, but I'm not sure I think all this new fangled 'no promotion' lark is a great idea". Er, okaaaay....!!

 

Relegation doesn't work , never has , never will 

But also no promotion doesn't work , never has , never will 

It's a balance between the two , usually decided by which side of it you are on 

 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

14 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Relegation doesn't work , never has , never will 

But also no promotion doesn't work , never has , never will 

It's a balance between the two , usually decided by which side of it you are on 

 

To be honest Martyn should be happy with the future goal: No relegation, and occasional promotion when the sport can afford to have more teams in the comp, with promoted teams chosen on a wide set of criteria. Just like it happens in the NRL.

So if he waits a few years he’s going to love it! 

[Oxford]

4 hours ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Here is my decidedly mixed view on the subject.

Hardly surprising Martyn. IMG may be 100% correct and everything they're doing will achieve their goals but what we know and what we've learned so far hasn't made it clear how.

There are lots of claims and huge amounts of hyperbole but they're as confusing as they are unhelpful.

[DEANO]

I would argue that we’re paying somebody a awful lot of money just to maintain the status quo 

[sam4731]

50 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Why not 7.6 ? . Or 7.4 ? , Or 2.0 ? 

I mean the point threshold is irrelevant to be honest, I was just using the IMG measure for a B grade.

[David Dockhouse Host]

1 hour ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

 

Good grief, I just watched most of that, that's time I'll never get back. What a pair of moaners. You can just imagine how that attitude went down in the room

As for Martyn, a good summary might be "I think relegation doesn't work, but I'm not sure I think all this new fangled 'no promotion' lark is a great idea". Er, okaaaay....!!

Ha ha, to be fair they make some good points and they have been there before with Super League. Little unfair to say they were moaning they are putting their own money and time into the club and it's understandable they would contest things they feel is unfair.

If you could leave any comments on the YouTube channel it will help our little show, comments and likes or even thumbs down count more than views, so appreciate some comments on there thanks

[Angelic Cynic]

2 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

 

Good grief, I just watched most of that, that's time I'll never get back. What a pair of moaners. You can just imagine how that attitude went down in the room

As for Martyn, a good summary might be "I think relegation doesn't work, but I'm not sure I think all this new fangled 'no promotion' lark is a great idea". Er, okaaaay....!!

 

If you watched most of that at which pertinent point did you stop watching?

As for moaners,wasn't it Hudgell who moaned about the RFL Disciplinary and was allowed a fair bit of power above that usually permitted to a club owner?

I could mention people moaning at a certain time in history which allowed Wilberforce to make a name for himself? Should no one have complained,or moaned about that?

With the reputation of American businessmen * buying 'distressed assets' and making profits,perhaps the Super League owners allowed the top of the sport to become 'distressed' and needed USA assistance.

LED advertising hoardings will obstruct the view of our officials.They already face more than enough criticism from those in Super League. 

Will the Gradings be removed if the Dockhouse 2 make better Hot Dogs than the stadia people where Super League games are held?

*and/or businesswomen. 

[Hello]

Where is the ambition, where are the great ideas for promoting and expanding the game? In a week when the US union competition broke it's attendance record by getting over 11,000 for an opening round fixture, I look at the composition of teams in SL, I read the general negative attitudes towards any attempts at expansion, I see the long-awaited new ideas from IMG leaving me feeling "what was all the excitement and optimism about" and I try and think of another sport that gets it so badly wrong. If anyone can think of one, please do say.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

1 hour ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

Ha ha, to be fair they make some good points and they have been there before with Super League. Little unfair to say they were moaning they are putting their own money and time into the club and it's understandable they would contest things they feel is unfair.

If you could leave any comments on the YouTube channel it will help our little show, comments and likes or even thumbs down count more than views, so appreciate some comments on there thanks

They’ve every right to speak and be heard, I just wish they could be more progressive with their thinking not regressive.

The centre isn’t going to fund tier 2 or 3 clubs disproportionately, unless the tier 1 revenues enable it. So we need to focus on that, not how we share a smaller cake. We can’t carry on with this lowest common denominator, race-to-the-bottom strategy we’ve been locked into for over 15 years now. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

1 hour ago, Angelic Cynic said:

If you watched most of that at which pertinent point did you stop watching?

As for moaners,wasn't it Hudgell who moaned about the RFL Disciplinary and was allowed a fair bit of power above that usually permitted to a club owner?

I could mention people moaning at a certain time in history which allowed Wilberforce to make a name for himself? Should no one have complained,or moaned about that?

With the reputation of American businessmen * buying 'distressed assets' and making profits,perhaps the Super League owners allowed the top of the sport to become 'distressed' and needed USA assistance.

LED advertising hoardings will obstruct the view of our officials.They already face more than enough criticism from those in Super League. 

Will the Gradings be removed if the Dockhouse 2 make better Hot Dogs than the stadia people where Super League games are held?

*and/or businesswomen. 

I love your schtick, it’s awesome.

Comparing Keighley Cougars’ owners moaning about changes to the promotion criteria, and the lack of a free ride on tier 1 TV revenues, to William Wilberforce’s long campaign to abolish the slave trade is right up there in my list of all-time favourite comments on here. I almost spat my tea out.

[meast]

Could there not be a case that the bottom SL club goes down to be replaced by the top championship club (providing they meet sufficient grading)

Then.. a play off between the lowest graded ranked SL team and the highest graded championship team?

It would give most teams something to aim and play for but would also mean SL teams can't rest on their laurels.

[Angelic Cynic]

11 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

I love your schtick, it’s awesome.

Comparing Keighley Cougars’ owners moaning about changes to the promotion criteria, and the lack of a free ride on tier 1 TV revenues, to William Wilberforce’s long campaign to abolish the slave trade is right up there in my list of all-time favourite comments on here. I almost spat my tea out.

It's a change to the entire sport.

If the idea is to gain a better broadcast deal by having a better product then surely improving the product,via the players and coaching is the way ahead.

The Ladies side and wheelchair sides formed themselves - no club owners woke up one day and decided to start them.They formed themselves and eventually got themselves under the club umbrella. 

The suits and brains haven't consulted the players or coaches.

Have they done any data.Castleford not permitted an elite Academy because of the lack on international call ups? When there has been an Australian head coach and an ex-Wigan head coach? Not really fair - particularly when Denis Betts assisted Wayne Bennett and Dennis Betts had 2 artificial promotions with Widnes Vikings and Newcastle Thunder.Didn't win games on the pitch.

Performances on the field for Castleford Academy may not have helped.

Anyway,one thing,I am now beginning to think one man,a solicitor,Rod Findlay,did more work in a shorter period of time,with Licensing,than any of the number of IMG experts it has taken to come up with this smudge,hitherto.

LED advertising! Way to go!

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

54 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

It's a change to the entire sport.

If the idea is to gain a better broadcast deal by having a better product then surely improving the product,via the players and coaching is the way ahead.

The Ladies side and wheelchair sides formed themselves - no club owners woke up one day and decided to start them.They formed themselves and eventually got themselves under the club umbrella. 

The suits and brains haven't consulted the players or coaches.

Have they done any data.Castleford not permitted an elite Academy because of the lack on international call ups? When there has been an Australian head coach and an ex-Wigan head coach? Not really fair - particularly when Denis Betts assisted Wayne Bennett and Dennis Betts had 2 artificial promotions with Widnes Vikings and Newcastle Thunder.Didn't win games on the pitch.

Performances on the field for Castleford Academy may not have helped.

Anyway,one thing,I am now beginning to think one man,a solicitor,Rod Findlay,did more work in a shorter period of time,with Licensing,than any of the number of IMG experts it has taken to come up with this smudge,hitherto.

LED advertising! Way to go!

If I wanted to collaborate to develop new ideas on how to position, promote and grow the sport, then players and coaches would not exactly be my first port of call, no. 

 

[Oxford]

15 hours ago, DEANO said:

I would argue that we’re paying somebody a awful lot of money just to maintain the status quo 

They're not being paid until and if  theyre successful.

[steve oates]

17 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Good grief, I just watched most of that, that's time I'll never get back. What a pair of moaners. You can just imagine how that attitude went down in the room  As for Martyn, a good summary might be "I think relegation doesn't work, but I'm not sure I think all this new fangled 'no promotion' lark is a great idea"

I remember the days Rovers were in the third tier of the game, and crowds got as low as 1,400, leading to them being nowhere near good enough for Superleague let alone the Championship. Maybe cut a little slack for clubs that want to do well and don't have a cabal of rich people like Rovers have today.

Rovers eventually got promotions for them to enter Superleague accordingly, and they have been a credit to the game since. All through the years of P&R the major problem was clubs trying to stay up (inc rovers) when the dice were loaded against them, when it came to the job of getting ready to take on the established professionals in the Superleague.

By the time promotion was achieved all the decent available pro-players were signed up for the next season. That issue had an easy answer SL clubs never implemented which was have P & R every two years to give the promoted club time to build a Superleage quality squad.

I congratulate Martyn for his soaring doubts about IMG and the utter nonsense they have generated. Please do come back to me if or when their plans see crowds sky rocket and new investors are queuing at the doors of Superleague Towers...

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

11 minutes ago, steve oates said:

I remember the days Rovers were in the third tier of the game, and crowds got as low as 1,400, leading to them being nowhere near good enough for Superleague let alone the Championship. Maybe cut a little slack for clubs that want to do well and don't have a cabal of rich people like Rovers have today.

Rovers eventually got promotions for them to enter Superleague accordingly, and they have been a credit to the game since. All through the years of P&R the major problem was clubs trying to stay up (inc rovers) when the dice were loaded against them, when it came to the job of getting ready to take on the established professionals in the Superleague.

By the time promotion was achieved all the decent available pro-players were signed up for the next season. That issue had an easy answer SL clubs never implemented which was have P & R every two years to give the promoted club time to build a Superleage quality squad.

I congratulate Martyn for his soaring doubts about IMG and the utter nonsense they have generated. Please do come back to me if or when their plans see crowds sky rocket and new investors are queuing at the doors of Superleague Towers...

You can still get promotion from Tier 3 to Tier 2 in the future plan. You can still get promotion to Tier 1, just looking at a wider range of important criteria. It's not a closed shop idea. 

I have always believed in promotion to the elite level on a wider basket of measures than "local bookie spends £500k more than the part-time competitors one season to win the league". It's the best way to grow a challenger sport like ours. I've said that consistently here and elsewhere, for years, however that impacted on Rovers directly.

I support rugby league first, and my club's own interests second. I think generally if the sport grows, the fortunes of my own club will improve.

I've zero interest in achieving some lowest common denominator, in a race to the bottom we all lose.