England v Tonga series

[Big Picture]

3 hours ago, theswanmcr said:

Well at least it is a reason but not a very good one.

Really should have had the first Tonga match in London (Brentford would have been ideal) - and shift the Knights game somewhere else. 

It is the big marquee games that get crowds in London.

Your thinking that a match against Tonga is more marquee than a European Championship match against Ireland is backward.  To outsiders, surely the latter would be the marquee match of the two.

This is because they'll surely rate Ireland much more than Tonga based on their rankings in other sports which are bigger and better known in England than RL is.  The only other sport in which those tiny little island countries amount to anything is RU, and in that sport although they regularly play in World Cups they practically never get past the group stage.  Any thought that they can boost RL's International game is nothing more than a fantasy.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Big Picture

[GeordieSaint]

27 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

Possibly down to costs and this series needs to make money.

I imagine that’s why they’ve gone for two RL club owned grounds. I imagine the rent at Huddersfield is low as well. 

[crashmon]

34 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

I look forward to having this test series confirmed in May next year

Test 1 at LSV

Test 2 at Hudds

Test 3 at Leeds

Can't actually try and make the game more accessible outside the small minority living within 30 miles of the M62 motoway

Edited April 29, 2023 by crashmon

[Guest]

I'll go to all games. I don't mind the John Smiths as a ground, but that feels like the wrong venue for an international game. They have shown they are iffy on attendances. 

Mind you, Hull struggles as well, so feels like a game for a 25k ground in the south or maybe back to Newcastle. 

[Madrileño]

55 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

I imagine that’s why they’ve gone for two RL club owned grounds. I imagine the rent at Huddersfield is low as well. 

I think you are right.

They are seemingly using their own RFL volunteer staff at todays game as well. Loads of people were queuing outside the HJ begore the womens game and complaining that turnstiles are closed. 

Sounds like the RFL desperately trying to minimise costs. 

[tec]

5 hours ago, zylya said:

I can't get behind this logic.

If you sell 20,000 seats in a 20,000 seater stadium then you're (likely) going to make less money than selling 40,000 seats in a 60,000 seater stadium.

Agree that it's better to have 20,000 in a 20,000 seater than 20,000 in a 60,000 but if we're talking about London, then 8 of the 10 highest ever England National Team attendances have been in London. 

Internationals have a chance to be a huge revenue generator that can then fund the game going forward. That means you need to be maximising attendance, not picking small stadiums.

Be lucky to get 20000 wherever the games are played that's why I think the RFL have made a good decision. You have added costs using Football stadiums and maybe that's why more profit will made by playing at the grounds chosen.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, tec said:

Be lucky to get 20000 wherever the games are played that's why I think the RFL have made a good decision. You have added costs using Football stadiums and maybe that's why more profit will made by playing at the grounds chosen.

Fair points. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

Embarrassing who the hell is running the game now?

[RP London]

2 hours ago, Big Picture said:

Your thinking that a match against Tonga is more marquee than a European Championship match against Ireland is backward.  To outsiders, surely the latter would be the marquee match of the two.

This is because they'll surely rate Ireland much more than Tonga based on their rankings in other sports which are bigger and better known in England than RL is.  The only other sport in which those tiny little island countries amount to anything is RU, and in that sport although they regularly play in World Cups they practically never get past the group stage.  Any thought that they can boost RL's International game is nothing more than a fantasy.

You do know the sports loving public of England and great Britain is actually quite knowledgeable... like knowing a series v Jamaica in netball is a big thing... a test series vs India at cricket is a big thing (even though they are shiiiiite at football and other sports).. 

"Sports fans" in England aren't simpletons.. Brazil, Germany, italy are good at football but at very few other sports the UK public have interest in so they do "get it"

 

[Mathius Hellwege]

even if you believe in just 60.000 customers (I am more inclined to believe in 120.000), this combination is unbelievably depressingly boring, fearful, M62fixated...

At least go to Sheffield, if it has to be Yorkshire so often....but at least a large city, South Yorkshire and a reward for their turn-out at the WC

 

[Gomersall]

2 minutes ago, Mathius Hellwege said:

even if you believe in just 60.000 customers (I am more inclined to believe in 120.000), this combination is unbelievably depressingly boring, fearful, M62fixated...

At least go to Sheffield, if it has to be Yorkshire so often....but at least a large city, South Yorkshire and a reward for their turn-out at the WC

 

Is the choice of venue another reason why some players are apathetic? Take today’s game at a ground the players either play at every other week or at least once or twice every season. This isn’t an excuse by the way I’m just putting it out there. I personally would be looking to represent my country at every and any opportunity if I were ever good enough.

[Big Picture]

54 minutes ago, RP London said:

You do know the sports loving public of England and great Britain is actually quite knowledgeable... like knowing a series v Jamaica in netball is a big thing... a test series vs India at cricket is a big thing (even though they are shiiiiite at football and other sports).. 

"Sports fans" in England aren't simpletons.. Brazil, Germany, italy are good at football but at very few other sports the UK public have interest in so they do "get it"

 

Netball is a niche sport more or less limited to the Commonwealth and a little handful of other countries, so naturally Jamaica punches above its weight in that small pond.  And Jamaica being world famous as the place where reggae began helps its profile too.  All the other countries you mentioned are big countries which are part of the G-20, so naturally they're good in at least one sport and the public in England knows that.

Tonga on the other hand (and all the other little Pacific island countries too) is a place they never hear about in the news, so what percentage of English sports followers do you think know anything at all about Tonga?  I suggest that you'd find that percentage to be very small.

And when they do learn about it and how tiny it is, what will it say about a sport where tiny little Tonga can compete with and even beat England?  It will say that in England it's a tiny, insignificant sport, just as its detractors claim, because if that wasn't the case a tiny country like Tonga would never be competitive with a country like England.

[RP London]

Just now, Big Picture said:

Netball is a niche sport more or less limited to the Commonwealth and a little handful of other countries, so naturally Jamaica punches above its weight in that small pond.  And Jamaica being world famous as the place where reggae began helps its profile too.  All the other countries you mentioned are big countries which are part of the G-20, so naturally they're good in at least one sport and the public in England knows that.

Tonga on the other hand (and all the other little Pacific island countries too) is a place they never hear about in the news, so what percentage of English sports followers do you think know anything at all about Tonga?  I suggest that you'd find that percentage to be very small.

And when they do learn about it and how tiny it is, what will it say about a sport where tiny little Tonga can compete with and even beat England?  It will say that in England it's a tiny, insignificant sport, just as its detractors claim, because if that wasn't the case a tiny country like Tonga would never be competitive with a country like England.

Say you don't understand sport and sports fan in England and Great Britian with saying you don't understand....

What a load of utter codswallop

[Big Picture]

5 minutes ago, RP London said:

Say you don't understand sport and sports fan in England and Great Britian with saying you don't understand....

What a load of utter codswallop

If you can show me how it's "utter codwsallop", then by all means do so.

[Davo5]

3 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Netball is a niche sport more or less limited to the Commonwealth and a little handful of other countries, so naturally Jamaica punches above its weight in that small pond.  And Jamaica being world famous as the place where reggae began helps its profile too.  All the other countries you mentioned are big countries which are part of the G-20, so naturally they're good in at least one sport and the public in England knows that.

Tonga on the other hand (and all the other little Pacific island countries too) is a place they never hear about in the news, so what percentage of English sports followers do you think know anything at all about Tonga?  I suggest that you'd find that percentage to be very small.

And when they do learn about it and how tiny it is, what will it say about a sport where tiny little Tonga can compete with and even beat England?  It will say that in England it's a tiny, insignificant sport, just as its detractors claim, because if that wasn't the case a tiny country like Tonga would never be competitive with a country like England.

And yet a tiny little island like Jamaica dominated sprinting in multiple global events watched by millions.& don’t come to the conclusion that athletics & the Olympics are tiny insignificant sports/events.

Your argument that the size of a successful sporting country reflects on the the significance of a sport is laughable & ridiculous.

[Davo5]

9 minutes ago, RP London said:

Say you don't understand sport and sports fan in England and Great Britian with saying you don't understand....

What a load of utter codswallop

Just sporting fans in England & Great Britain ?

[Gomersall]

12 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Netball is a niche sport more or less limited to the Commonwealth and a little handful of other countries, so naturally Jamaica punches above its weight in that small pond.  And Jamaica being world famous as the place where reggae began helps its profile too.  All the other countries you mentioned are big countries which are part of the G-20, so naturally they're good in at least one sport and the public in England knows that.

Tonga on the other hand (and all the other little Pacific island countries too) is a place they never hear about in the news, so what percentage of English sports followers do you think know anything at all about Tonga?  I suggest that you'd find that percentage to be very small.

And when they do learn about it and how tiny it is, what will it say about a sport where tiny little Tonga can compete with and even beat England?  It will say that in England it's a tiny, insignificant sport, just as its detractors claim, because if that wasn't the case a tiny country like Tonga would never be competitive with a country like England.

Next thing we know Iceland, yes Iceland, will be beating England at soccer!

[sam4731]

3 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

If you can show me how it's "utter codwsallop", then by all means do so.

It's codswallop because when you start comparing size, population, reputation or financial situation, you might wanna rethink that bet that you've got on China to beat Sri Lanka at a game of cricket.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

21 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Netball is a niche sport more or less limited to the Commonwealth and a little handful of other countries, so naturally Jamaica punches above its weight in that small pond.  And Jamaica being world famous as the place where reggae began helps its profile too.  All the other countries you mentioned are big countries which are part of the G-20, so naturally they're good in at least one sport and the public in England knows that.

Tonga on the other hand (and all the other little Pacific island countries too) is a place they never hear about in the news, so what percentage of English sports followers do you think know anything at all about Tonga?  I suggest that you'd find that percentage to be very small.

And when they do learn about it and how tiny it is, what will it say about a sport where tiny little Tonga can compete with and even beat England?  It will say that in England it's a tiny, insignificant sport, just as its detractors claim, because if that wasn't the case a tiny country like Tonga would never be competitive with a country like England.

I've been having a rubbish time of it recently but in the last half hour two things have happened to cheer me up no end.

1. My favourite snooker player, Luca Brecel, came from 5-14 down to stage the greatest comeback in crucible history to become the first Continental European to reached the World Snooker Championship final. 

2. I read your post. 

[Big Picture]

17 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

And yet a tiny little island like Jamaica dominated sprinting in multiple global events watched by millions.& don’t come to the conclusion that athletics & the Olympics are tiny insignificant sports/events.

Your argument that the size of a successful sporting country reflects on the the significance of a sport is laughable & ridiculous.

Individual sports like sprinting aren't the same as team sports.  A top individual competitor can excel in an individual sport regardless of his or her background, team sports tend to be dominated by big, populous countries.  And the analogy wouldn't be that Athletics or the Olympics are tiny insignificant sports/events, it would be that sprinting is a minor sport in such big, populous countries.  And it's probably true that sprinting isn't generally seen as a big sport in those countries.

The fact remains that in the sports which are big in England, small countries like those in this discussion aren't competitive with England and as a rule they don't advance far in International tournaments.  When Iceland beat England in the 2016 soccer Euros, the press headlines described it as a shock, a humiliation, and the like.  So if that kind of one-off defeat was seen as humiliating, how could a few losses to an even tinier country in RL be seen as any less humiliating?

Edited April 29, 2023 by Big Picture

[Davo5]

9 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Individual sports like sprinting aren't the same as team sports.  A top individual competitor can excel in an individual sport regardless of his or her background, team sports tend to be dominated by big, populous countries.  And the analogy wouldn't be that Athletics or the Olympics are tiny insignificant sports/events, it would be that sprinting is a minor sport in such big, populous countries.  And it's probably true that sprinting isn't generally seen as a big sport in those countries.

The fact remains that in the sports which are big in England, small countries like those in this discussion aren't competitive with England and as a rule they don't advance far in International tournaments.  When Iceland beat England in the 2016 soccer Euros, the press headlines described it as a shock, a humiliation, and the like.  So if that kind of one-off defeat was seen as humiliating, how could a few losses to an even tinier country in RL be seen as any less humiliating?

Comedy genius 

[Big Picture]

1 minute ago, Davo5 said:

Comedy genius 

If that's what you think, then by all means explain why England being beaten by Tonga would not be seen as a humiliation when England losing to Iceland in soccer was.

[Gomersall]

6 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

If that's what you think, then by all means explain why England being beaten by Tonga would not be seen as a humiliation when England losing to Iceland in soccer was.

Soccer is by far the biggest sport in England with players earning hundreds of thousands a week. The majority of the Tongan players will be earning more money than their SL counterparts and will, generally, have come through the NRL system. Are there any Icelandic players in the EPL? It was embarrassing for England because it was the swanky rich kids being shown up by a minnow soccer nation. Tonga beating England at RL  wouldn’t have anywhere near the same resonance. 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Gomersall

[RP London]

40 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Just sporting fans in England & Great Britain ?

Yes fair point 

[RP London]

45 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

If you can show me how it's "utter codwsallop", then by all means do so.

How many times do we all have to do that before you listen? wont waste my time doing it again it's like playing a pigeon at chess..