Is this good enough?

[Tommygilf]

Big reminder of how walking before running is essential, and just how big the gap is between a lot of the Championship and the Pro game.

Getting the basics right ahead of brash (failed) campaigns - at least they didn't spend the money on coloured printer ink - is just so important. 

This isn't professional, its poor. 

[David Shepherd]

5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Big reminder of how walking before running is essential, and just how big the gap is between a lot of the Championship and the Pro game.

Getting the basics right ahead of brash (failed) campaigns - at least they didn't spend the money on coloured printer ink - is just so important. 

This isn't professional, its poor. 

Probably looking at £5k to £15k depending on the complexity of the surgery and the length of any hospital stay.  Really does highlight how tin-pot the sport is that a club with aspirations of being in the top flight can't afford this.

Why aren't the RFL forcing all "pro" clubs to take medical insurance to cover injuries? (I guess the answer is lack of money). Really poor that the taxpayer is picking up the bill (and that players are expected to wait ages).

[OriginalMrC]

There's something seriously wrong at Keighley! The clock is ticking before they start asking fans to get their hands in their pockets again 

[Tommygilf]

7 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

Probably looking at £5k to £15k depending on the complexity of the surgery and the length of any hospital stay.  Really does highlight how tin-pot the sport is that a club with aspirations of being in the top flight can't afford this.

Why aren't the RFL forcing all "pro" clubs to take medical insurance to cover injuries? (I guess the answer is lack of money). Really poor that the taxpayer is picking up the bill (and that players are expected to wait ages).

As you say, these aren't huge sums of money, and if they are for said club, you really have to question whether the top flight is an option currently. IMG will be a major reality check!

I'm surprised the RFL don't have that sort of policy in place to force clubs into having insurance. Perhaps they think the market, ie agents, will push their players towards clubs that offer better deals on that front thus forcing everyone to adopt it. Evidently that hasn't happened.

The cheek to say they are disappointed in the NHS too...

[gingerjon]

33 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Big reminder of how walking before running is essential, and just how big the gap is between a lot of the Championship and the Pro game.

Getting the basics right ahead of brash (failed) campaigns - at least they didn't spend the money on coloured printer ink - is just so important. 

This isn't professional, its poor. 

That is obscene

[RP London]

I mean to be fair as an employer we offer workplace healthcare schemes that you can opt in to. Ok you pay for it out of your pay packet but we are a small family business and we do all the admin etc... I think the top level of cover is £30 a month but there are different levels... surely the clubs can afford to pay this sort of thing and I am sure if we enrolled everyone and haggled we could get a better deal than we do!

Edited June 8, 2023 by RP London

[David Shepherd]

19 minutes ago, RP London said:

I mean to be fair as an employer we offer workplace healthcare schemes that you can opt in to. Ok you pay for it out of your pay packet but we are a small family business and we do all the admin etc... I think the top level of cover is £30 a month but there are different levels... surely the clubs can afford to pay this sort of thing and I am sure if we enrolled everyone and haggled we could get a better deal than we do!

Yeah, I pay BUPA for all my employees (only 5 of them). As you say, it's about £30 a month and it's very much in my interest to keep them away from the NHS if/when they need surgery or a GP appointment.

I'm a farty little one man band travel agency with a turnover nowhere near that of the average RL club.  If I can afford it............

Edited June 8, 2023 by David Shepherd

[Damien]

That's appalling, as is trying to shift the blame to the NHS. I'm amazed it is not a requirement for professional clubs to have insurance in place.

[Angelic Cynic]

41 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

There's something seriously wrong at Keighley! The clock is ticking before they start asking fans to get their hands in their pockets again 

It hasn't done Salford any harm.

Shouldn't all clubs have a Supporters Trust in operation?

There again,happy clappers who believed owners at Wigan Athletic soccer club haven't had much return for their investment.

Who can you trust,nowadays?

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, David Shepherd said:

Yeah, I pay BUPA for all my employees (only 5 of them). As you say, it's about £30 a month and it's very much in my interest to keep them away from the NHS if/when they need surgery or a GP appointment.

I'm a farty little one man band travel agency with a turnover nowhere near that of the average RL club.  If I can afford it............

Enlightened self interest can be a powerful motivator!

I'd actually assumed it would be a requirement that all clubs have proper insurance to cover *at least* surgery needed as a result of an injury sustained whilst playing.

There's always the issue (it seems) about physio and recovery but the basis of essential surgery to even start the recovery process should surely be a minimum requirement.

As with the woman playing for Ireland, it would be interesting to know what players were told and what was implied about what they were covered for.

[RP London]

14 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Enlightened self interest can be a powerful motivator!

I'd actually assumed it would be a requirement that all clubs have proper insurance to cover *at least* surgery needed as a result of an injury sustained whilst playing.

There's always the issue (it seems) about physio and recovery but the basis of essential surgery to even start the recovery process should surely be a minimum requirement.

As with the woman playing for Ireland, it would be interesting to know what players were told and what was implied about what they were covered for.

Totally agree.. we are the same as @David Shepherd in that we want the staff healthy to work in a factory environment. Physio, dental, Chiropractors etc all included to an extent.. 

On my cover I get all dental, 3/4 of physio bills, £250 every 2 years towards glasses (havent paid for a pair since needing them and normally get 2 so I can keep one at work and one at home) I get paid for nights in hospital ffs (when my Dad was dying of cancer he was happy that he was getting paid to be in hospital.. the little things that keep you smiling!) When my wife gave birth to both our kids we got given £250 each time just for having them! When the midwife scared the bejeesus out of my wife saying she needed to go for a scan asap but the next appt was 2 weeks we got one within an hour through the scheme.... 

The whole thing is so easy to use its ridiculous, there is also mental care covered.. I am properly shocked that a team of the level of Keighley dont have something in place. 

Edited June 8, 2023 by RP London

[Dovster]

It does seem bad at face value. However Nobody on this forum knows how this situation arose.

Did the club inform the player that they did not cover any injury insurance?. 

Did the player play knowing this and not use his own personal cover?

I suppose the club could and probably should cover the insurance and negotiate this when signing a contract.

May be lessons learnt all round.

 

[RBKnight]

Perhaps this is the reason Luke Gale left - Cougars wouldn't pay for hair maintenance.....

[RP London]

11 minutes ago, Dovster said:

It does seem bad at face value. However Nobody on this forum knows how this situation arose.

Did the club inform the player that they did not cover any injury insurance?. 

Did the player play knowing this and not use his own personal cover?

I suppose the club could and probably should cover the insurance and negotiate this when signing a contract.

May be lessons learnt all round.

 

While i understand what you are saying the main asset of any club are the players (away from the physical value of the ground).. as in without them you really are in the creek without a canoe let alone a paddle. To rely on the NHS for treatment and especially surgery seems like utter madness, especially when this type of cover is around £360 per player per year (without even haggling on cost or having a good deal).. so for a squad of 30 (easy maths) all you are adding is £10,800 to a full wage bill to make sure, as much as possible, your players get the care and get back to playing as fast as humanly possible...

Just checked and one of the Eagles partners is an insurance company that does Sports Club Insurance and Surgical Insurance according to their website so I guess this is covered, potentially as part of the "partnership" ie dont pay us but cover us.. so there are other ways to do it that wont be so expensive.

I am astonished clubs do not have this in place..

[gingerjon]

6 minutes ago, RP London said:

While i understand what you are saying the main asset of any club are the players (away from the physical value of the ground).. as in without them you really are in the creek without a canoe let alone a paddle. To rely on the NHS for treatment and especially surgery seems like utter madness, especially when this type of cover is around £360 per player per year (without even haggling on cost or having a good deal).. so for a squad of 30 (easy maths) all you are adding is £10,800 to a full wage bill to make sure, as much as possible, your players get the care and get back to playing as fast as humanly possible...

Just checked and one of the Eagles partners is an insurance company that does Sports Club Insurance and Surgical Insurance according to their website so I guess this is covered, potentially as part of the "partnership" ie dont pay us but cover us.. so there are other ways to do it that wont be so expensive.

I am astonished clubs do not have this in place..

Sign, as well, of a weak/non existent players' union that something this basic isn't a requirement of every contract.

[RP London]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

Sign, as well, of a weak/non existent players' union that something this basic isn't a requirement of every contract.

yes thats very true.

[Dovster]

18 minutes ago, RP London said:

While i understand what you are saying the main asset of any club are the players (away from the physical value of the ground).. as in without them you really are in the creek without a canoe let alone a paddle. To rely on the NHS for treatment and especially surgery seems like utter madness, especially when this type of cover is around £360 per player per year (without even haggling on cost or having a good deal).. so for a squad of 30 (easy maths) all you are adding is £10,800 to a full wage bill to make sure, as much as possible, your players get the care and get back to playing as fast as humanly possible...

Just checked and one of the Eagles partners is an insurance company that does Sports Club Insurance and Surgical Insurance according to their website so I guess this is covered, potentially as part of the "partnership" ie dont pay us but cover us.. so there are other ways to do it that wont be so expensive.

I am astonished clubs do not have this in place..

Agreed I hope the Cougars have learnt a lesson from this episode.

 

[wilsontown]

1 hour ago, RP London said:

While i understand what you are saying the main asset of any club are the players (away from the physical value of the ground).. as in without them you really are in the creek without a canoe let alone a paddle. To rely on the NHS for treatment and especially surgery seems like utter madness, especially when this type of cover is around £360 per player per year (without even haggling on cost or having a good deal).. so for a squad of 30 (easy maths) all you are adding is £10,800 to a full wage bill to make sure, as much as possible, your players get the care and get back to playing as fast as humanly possible...

Just checked and one of the Eagles partners is an insurance company that does Sports Club Insurance and Surgical Insurance according to their website so I guess this is covered, potentially as part of the "partnership" ie dont pay us but cover us.. so there are other ways to do it that wont be so expensive.

I am astonished clubs do not have this in place..

Would it be as cheap as that? I mean, these are of course fit and healthy people but they are quite likely to get injured and need treatment, I expect that would push the premiums up. Not that I think it's in any way acceptable.

[RP London]

30 minutes ago, wilsontown said:

Would it be as cheap as that? I mean, these are of course fit and healthy people but they are quite likely to get injured and need treatment, I expect that would push the premiums up. Not that I think it's in any way acceptable.

The one we use at work doesn't ask any questions so assume the premium is the same.. I didn't pay more when I was playing rugby than I do now. 

[Griff]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Sign, as well, of a weak/non existent players' union that something this basic isn't a requirement of every contract.

Yet every time a players' union has been proposed, it's been met with massive apathy.

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Griff said:

Yet every time a players' union has been proposed, it's been met with massive apathy.

Not disagreeing, just observing.

[Griff]

3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Not disagreeing, just observing.

Noted.

[Griff]

2 hours ago, RP London said:

While i understand what you are saying the main asset of any club are the players (away from the physical value of the ground).. as in without them you really are in the creek without a canoe let alone a paddle. To rely on the NHS for treatment and especially surgery seems like utter madness, especially when this type of cover is around £360 per player per year (without even haggling on cost or having a good deal).. so for a squad of 30 (easy maths) all you are adding is £10,800 to a full wage bill to make sure, as much as possible, your players get the care and get back to playing as fast as humanly possible...

Just checked and one of the Eagles partners is an insurance company that does Sports Club Insurance and Surgical Insurance according to their website so I guess this is covered, potentially as part of the "partnership" ie dont pay us but cover us.. so there are other ways to do it that wont be so expensive.

I am astonished clubs do not have this in place..

I'm astonished that this isn't covered by compulsory Employers' Liability insurance, to be honest.  It's a work related injury.  I assume Keighley - and every other club, for that matter - have such a policy in place.

[OriginalMrC]

4 minutes ago, Griff said:

I'm astonished that this isn't covered by compulsory Employers' Liability insurance, to be honest.  It's a work related injury.  I assume Keighley - and every other club, for that matter - have such a policy in place.

You'd be correct, they should have a policy in place. So should the player to be fair. 

I find it astonishing that the owner expects the NHS to pick up the tab. Didn't they have some thank you NHS kit as well during covid? 

[Angelic Cynic]

10 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

You'd be correct, they should have a policy in place. So should the player to be fair. 

I find it astonishing that the owner expects the NHS to pick up the tab. Didn't they have some thank you NHS kit as well during covid? 

That is not the case.Here is the quote - 

Quote

Lewis has an injury to his ankle, which unfortunately the NHS do not feel is essential to be fixed. As a professional rugby league player this could end his career, and despite best efforts to get Lewis the surgery he needs through the NHS, we have been unsuccessful in achieving it. We are disappointed our national health service are reluctant to operate on injuries that are needed and essential to a person's career and livelihood.

Lots of people around the country,including Labour MP's,seem to share the same feelings.Many have stronger views.

Do not mistake this post as in any way accepting the level of professionalism shown in the sport of rugby league in England. Nor the comments on Twitter, from a Super League player who chased the dollar in Toronto then whinged when the money failed to arrive.

One day the sport may improve and reach a nearly acceptable level.So may this country.