How can international rugby league recover its credibility after the humiliating cancellation of the 2025 World Cup in France?

[crashmon]

13 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

Bring back the Ashes! That is RL's big ticket internationally. Games at such venues as the Etihad, Headingley, Wembley, maybe Newcastle. Go big.

NZ, Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, PNG should all be playing several games against one another every year mid-season.

A Euro Comp and other comps for the developing regions.

I realy don't know how many times I have said this

Aus see no value in playing Eng in RL.  For there to be an ashes needs both parties at the table.   Aus are not interested in playing England either home or away

Its like Scotland or NI saying lets bring back the football home nations, can you see England wanting to play scotland and NI every year, or rather play teams like France, Germany, Brazil, Arg etc

Aus have no interest in playing Eng.... They would much rather play SH....

Edited July 11, 2023 by crashmon

[RP London]

6 minutes ago, crashmon said:

I realy don't know how many times I have said this

Aus see no value in playing Eng in RL.  For there to be an ashes needs both parties at the table.   Aus are not interested in playing England either home or away

Its like Scotland or NI saying lets bring back the football home nations, can you see England wanting to play scotland and NI every year, or rather play teams like France, Germany, Brazil, Arg etc

Aus have no interest in playing Eng.... They would much rather play SH....

it was talked about pre nations league about the home nations, but never seriously even when NI beat England in the qualifiers.. the talk was always "where do we fit it in" around friendlies (designed to build up for the next major game) and qualifiers. The answer was always "instead of friendlies" in reality but it never got any real traction... 

it does sound familiar (though the above is simplified)

[StandOffHalf]

13 minutes ago, crashmon said:

I realy don't know how many times I have said this

Aus see no value in playing Eng in RL.  For there to be an ashes needs both parties at the table.   Aus are not interested in playing England either home or away

Its like Scotland or NI saying lets bring back the football home nations, can you see England wanting to play scotland and NI every year, or rather play teams like France, Germany, Brazil, Arg etc

Aus have no interest in playing Eng.... They would much rather play SH....

Yeah, but RL should try to be better than soccer. A Home Nations comp in soccer would have more passion and fervour than a half-baked, limpid friendly against a visiting big boy.

Edited July 11, 2023 by StandOffHalf

[Damien]

The RFL always plead poverty yet the biggest way they can get more income is through internationals. Sometimes you need to speculate to accumulate and the RFL have been far too conservative for years now.

While the Tonga tests are most welcome, and way overdue, the venue choices are far too conservative and lazy. The boon in international crowds in the 80s and 90s happened when the RFL showed vision and ditched the normal RL grounds and went to Wembley, Old Trafford and Elland Road. At least one match should have been in either Newcastle or London, and preferably we should have had games in both.

[Damien]

The RFL should also be looking at getting Samoa, PNG, and Fiji across, as well as obviously NZ. Whether these are tests or 4 Nations I don't care as, just show some inititiative and try and make some bleeding money and grow the game here and internationally. It will also generate money for the PI nations away from the NRL. If the Aussies don't want to know the RFL should take the lead and build something bigger and better.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, crashmon said:

I realy don't know how many times I have said this

Aus see no value in playing Eng in RL.  For there to be an ashes needs both parties at the table.   Aus are not interested in playing England either home or away

Its like Scotland or NI saying lets bring back the football home nations, can you see England wanting to play scotland and NI every year, or rather play teams like France, Germany, Brazil, Arg etc

Aus have no interest in playing Eng.... They would much rather play SH....

A home nations tournament would be a big hit financially. They just can't fit it in anywhere.

[crashmon]

1 hour ago, StandOffHalf said:

Yeah, but RL should try to be better than soccer. A Home Nations comp in soccer would have more passion and fervour than a half-baked, limpid friendly against a visiting big boy.

I fully agree.    But England soccer team would play France or Brazil instead of Scotland or NI given the chance.

 

I would love to see an Ashes, but the NRL and Aus are just really not interested in it.  I full agree with your posts, its just that the NRL cannot see past SOO, and a 4 nations of Aus, NZ, Tonga and Samoa is pretty much an NRL only comp anyway as 95% of the players come from there

[Big Picture]

Playing Devil's advocate, I'll ask: What credibility is the OP talking about?

In the not-too-distance past only five countries played the game, occasionally augmented by Wales when they had enough RU converts available despite there being no RL base in that country.  In time those countries were augmented by others able to field made up teams full of players who either never lived in the countries they represented or if they ever did live there, left at a young age when their parents emigrated to one of the few countries where RL was played.

In view of those facts I repeat my question: Just what credibility has International RL lost?  Or in other worlds did International RL ever have genuine credibility at all?  In the eyes of the outsiders who make up the target audience which IMG needs to attract in order to make any money out their 12-year deal with the RFL, the answer might well be No.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Big Picture

[JM2010]

There just needs to be some sort of tournament for England each year. Whether that’s the Ashes, a 4/6 N, test series against other SH nations, or a Euro tournament. Same for the other tier 1 and 2 nations, finished off with a WC in the 4th year. 

[Dave T]

I'm personally pretty torn on international RL. 

On one hand I want to buy tickets to all of the three Tonga Tests, drag as many people along as possible and help the series be a resounding success, showing there is life in international RL that isn't all about the usual suspects. 

On the other hand. I just can't really be arsed. 

[Sports Prophet]

4 hours ago, Big Picture said:

Playing Devil's advocate, I'll ask: What credibility is the OP talking about?

In the not-too-distance past only five countries played the game, occasionally augmented by Wales when they had enough RU converts available despite there being no RL base in that country.  In time those countries were augmented by others able to field made up teams full of players who either never lived in the countries they represented or if they ever did live there, left at a young age when their parents emigrated to one of the few countries where RL was played.

In view of those facts I repeat my question: Just what credibility has International RL lost?  Or in other worlds did International RL ever have genuine credibility at all?  In the eyes of the outsiders who make up the target audience which IMG needs to attract in order to make any money out their 12-year deal with the RFL, the answer might well be No.

that is a pretty good summary. I would also question the OP on “who” it is thought the international game has lost credibility with?

If we are talking about the general sports fan who has a passing interest in the game, then if they have even heard the news, then yes, there may be some credibility lost.

To the Non-fan? Well I doubt they heard the news at all.

To the detractor? Well haters gonna hate.

To the fan? Well yes, although outside a WC, I think the international game has already diminished to a pretty low bar. But for the WC to now fall over, yeah, I think we can say credibility is further diminished.

If the RFL make a success of Tonga this post season, then I think they can start looking to expand to a four nations concept next year, but just the one nation in 2023 is a smart move. I don’t think France have a pot to wee in, so unfortunately I don’t think they bring anything financially to the table of a four nations. The question I have is, should a four nations of Eng, Tonga, Samoa and Fiji/PNG be considered for next year, would the non-England fixtures be profitable? Would they be played in front of 10,000 people? If the answer is no to those questions, then I don’t think the RFL could run that.

[Jparrish]

56 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

that is a pretty good summary. I would also question the OP on “who” it is thought the international game has lost credibility with?

If we are talking about the general sports fan who has a passing interest in the game, then if they have even heard the news, then yes, there may be some credibility lost.

To the Non-fan? Well I doubt they heard the news at all.

To the detractor? Well haters gonna hate.

To the fan? Well yes, although outside a WC, I think the international game has already diminished to a pretty low bar. But for the WC to now fall over, yeah, I think we can say credibility is further diminished.

If the RFL make a success of Tonga this post season, then I think they can start looking to expand to a four nations concept next year, but just the one nation in 2023 is a smart move. I don’t think France have a pot to wee in, so unfortunately I don’t think they bring anything financially to the table of a four nations. The question I have is, should a four nations of Eng, Tonga, Samoa and Fiji/PNG be considered for next year, would the non-England fixtures be profitable? Would they be played in front of 10,000 people? If the answer is no to those questions, then I don’t think the RFL could run that.

I think New Zealand has to be in the mix personally. A 4 nations of England, NZ ,Samoa and Tonga or Fiji could be a good success at the end of 2024. Don't base 90 percent of the tournament in the M62, market it and charge reasonable ticket prices. We've never had as many competitive teams as now so I think 4 nations is the best way to capitalise 

Tri nations and 4 nations have made money in the past if im not mistaken?

[Pulga]

I was reading a 'Ask me anything' with a union 7's coach on Reddit. It seems that outside of the top 20 nations union basically has the same feeling towards World Rugby as we do towards the IRL.

I would suggest focusing on nations outside the top 20 union nations.

At the moment their rankings look like this:

Ireland

France

New Zealand

South Africa

Scotland

England

Australia

Argentina

Wales

Japan

Georgia

Samoa

Fiji

Italy

Tonga

Portugal

Uruguay

United States

Romania

Spain

The next 20 teams look like this:

Namibia

Chile

Canada

Hong Kong

Russian Federation

Netherlands

Switzerland

Brazil

Belgium

Korea

Zimbabwe

Germany

Kenya

Poland

Czech Republic

Ukraine

Colombia

Tunisia

Sweden

Paraguay

The nations in bold have some rugby league going on.

The IRL isn't making any money as it is. Sew your seeds where they are actually going to grow. 

[Sports Prophet]

9 hours ago, Jparrish said:

I think New Zealand has to be in the mix personally. A 4 nations of England, NZ ,Samoa and Tonga or Fiji could be a good success at the end of 2024. Don't base 90 percent of the tournament in the M62, market it and charge reasonable ticket prices. We've never had as many competitive teams as now so I think 4 nations is the best way to capitalise 

Tri nations and 4 nations have made money in the past if im not mistaken?

Correct, I should have replaced PNG/Fiji with NZ.

Tri nations are expensive because it costs money for teams to sit in a hotel for a week when they don’t have a game. So any series must have an even amount of teams to capitalise on each team playing each weekend.

[Sports Prophet]

10 minutes ago, Pulga said:

I was reading a 'Ask me anything' with a union 7's coach on Reddit. It seems that outside of the top 20 nations union basically has the same feeling towards World Rugby as we do towards the IRL.

I would suggest focusing on nations outside the top 20 union nations.

At the moment their rankings look like this:

Ireland

France

New Zealand

South Africa

Scotland

England

Australia

Argentina

Wales

Japan

Georgia

Samoa

Fiji

Italy

Tonga

Portugal

Uruguay

United States

Romania

Spain

The next 20 teams look like this:

Namibia

Chile

Canada

Hong Kong

Russian Federation

Netherlands

Switzerland

Brazil

Belgium

Korea

Zimbabwe

Germany

Kenya

Poland

Czech Republic

Ukraine

Colombia

Tunisia

Sweden

Paraguay

The nations in bold have some rugby league going on.

The IRL isn't making any money as it is. Sew your seeds where they are actually going to grow. 

That is a great idea and I have commented myself recently on the opportunity to have entire bodies and clubs of fledgling and disenchanted nations to convert to RL, however, I just don’t think we have much to offer them anyway to improve their satisfaction with an international governing body.

[Pulga]

4 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

That is a great idea and I have commented myself recently on the opportunity to have entire bodies and clubs of fledgling and disenchanted nations to convert to RL, however, I just don’t think we have much to offer them anyway to improve their satisfaction with an international governing body.

The IRL gives $20k a year to Full members including Australia, NZ and England. Why the hell would they need that? Use the money they do have wisely.

We see results when money is used wisely. Look at Jamaica. The only nation in all the Americas with a paid RL employee. We can see the direct results of that.

 

[Sports Prophet]

23 minutes ago, Pulga said:

The IRL gives $20k a year to Full members including Australia, NZ and England. Why the hell would they need that? Use the money they do have wisely.

We see results when money is used wisely. Look at Jamaica. The only nation in all the Americas with a paid RL employee. We can see the direct results of that.

 

$20k a year for the tier 1 nations is simply ridiculous if it’s true.

[bird]

The game can not expand without a financially viable IRL and the only properties they own are the 3 World Cups and the World Nines. The 3 and 4 Nations were and are the joint property of England, Australia and New Zealand and any 4th Nation did not get a share. It is not the way to go.

[Damien]

49 minutes ago, Pulga said:

The IRL gives $20k a year to Full members including Australia, NZ and England. Why the hell would they need that? Use the money they do have wisely.

We see results when money is used wisely. Look at Jamaica. The only nation in all the Americas with a paid RL employee. We can see the direct results of that.

Australia, NZ and England should be fully funding themselves. That is $60k that could be much better spent on growing the game in developing countries.

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

19 hours ago, Damien said:

The RFL should also be looking at getting Samoa, PNG, and Fiji across, as well as obviously NZ. Whether these are tests or 4 Nations I don't care as, just show some inititiative and try and make some bleeding money and grow the game here and internationally. It will also generate money for the PI nations away from the NRL. If the Aussies don't want to know the RFL should take the lead and build something bigger and better.

Absolutely this.

I said this many times, but we need to have someone, for me preferably Samoa, lined up for 2024 before we play Tonga. Then, assuming that the world cup goes ahead in 2025, one (or 2) of the other 3  lined up for 2026 ahead of it starting.

While I agree with your earlier post about the lack of ambition, I can understand it for the first tour of a PI nation, but regular games would allow us to build momentum and show more ambition. They may even encourage the other PI nations and NZ to start organising their own internationals against each other.

[RP London]

41 minutes ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

Absolutely this.

I said this many times, but we need to have someone, for me preferably Samoa, lined up for 2024 before we play Tonga. Then, assuming that the world cup goes ahead in 2025, one (or 2) of the other 3  lined up for 2026 ahead of it starting.

While I agree with your earlier post about the lack of ambition, I can understand it for the first tour of a PI nation, but regular games would allow us to build momentum and show more ambition. They may even encourage the other PI nations and NZ to start organising their own internationals against each other.

its a simple case of having to have the next one set up to be able to sell to the people enjoying the present one.. I dont quite get why the powers that be dont quite understand this.. 

If they had Tonga (or whoever) lined up while the world cup was on, and especially a london or newcastle test set up while we played there, then how many more tickets would have been sold by people already in the headspace to watch/spend on international RL.. 

Rocket science it aint.

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

1 minute ago, RP London said:

its a simple case of having to have the next one set up to be able to sell to the people enjoying the present one.. I dont quite get why the powers that be dont quite understand this.. 

If they had Tonga (or whoever) lined up while the world cup was on, and especially a london or newcastle test set up while we played there, then how many more tickets would have been sold by people already in the headspace to watch/spend on international RL.. 

Rocket science it aint.

It's not just internationals, I take quite a few people to the challenge cup final every year, including many who don't have rugby league as their first sport. I can never tell them when next year's game is

[Sports Prophet]

I feel like the opportunity to buy tickets well in advance is quite overstated.

There is an argument to say that opening sales closer to the match date is a better strategy. The biggest events, sports or any form of entertainment, open their sales to packed crowds of individuals looking to book the moment they go on sale, for fear of missing out altogether.

RL in the UK on the other hand seems to go for the lack of demand/urgency strategy which results in an expectation that tickets will still be available, much closer to the fixture date, possibly at a reduced price.

In an ideal world, by the time the Tonga series is about to start, next years tourists will have been confirmed, without a specific date. For those who are interested, they can register that interest and get updates of dates when they are confirmed and further confirmation when tickets go on sale.

[Eddie]

19 hours ago, Dave T said:

I'm personally pretty torn on international RL. 

On one hand I want to buy tickets to all of the three Tonga Tests, drag as many people along as possible and help the series be a resounding success, showing there is life in international RL that isn't all about the usual suspects. 

On the other hand. I just can't really be arsed. 

Agreed, I’ll be dragging six or seven pals from Norfolk to the game at Headingley, with the carrot of a night out in Leeds, but I’m not expecting the ground to be full or much of a spectacle. That said they all really enjoyed the NZ v Fiji WC QF in Hull, even though the weather was awful and there were about 8,000 in the ground. 

[Eddie]

4 hours ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

It's not just internationals, I take quite a few people to the challenge cup final every year, including many who don't have rugby league as their first sport. I can never tell them when next year's game is

Not even the month, it’s incredible.