Melbourne Storm celebrating their 5th Victorian debutante

[Griff]

10 hours ago, Pulga said:

It has to be a bit of jealousy there. The Storm are bigger than any English team in a much more hostile market and have only been around since 1998.

"But, but, soccer is so big here hence our complete incompetence".

Gerrawaywithi.

[Sports Prophet]

52 minutes ago, Damien said:

Only inevitable because so many people have said it and think it of you. Its always the same behaviour, troll with some claim which is usually some thinly disguised dig at the English game or RL, then shift the goalposts when the said claim is shown to be nonsense and then proceed to keep moving the goalposts to keep arguing.

I wouldn't want to go as far as @The Future is League and say you are a banned AFL troll from League Unlimited, because I'd like to think you aren't actually that sad, and would like to give you a little more credit than that.

See we can all do this nonsense and go back and forth. We obviously disagree on the similarities between the Storm and Broncos so let's leave it at that.

I don’t throw any criticism of the English game without warrant. You must be thinking of someone else. I watch 20 minute highlights of most televised SL games because I enjoy the English game. I sat up to dumbass o’clock to watch the CC Final the other night, and wasn’t I rewarded for doing so. If I do have a dig at the game in the NH, it must be near on exclusively at the administrators, not the game. Next time you see me having an unnecessary dig at the English game, go ahead and call me out on it.

As for shifting goal posts, that is absolute garbage. I haven’t changed any goalposts in this or any other topic that I can think of. I am more than comfortable with changing my opinion on matters when someone presents good reason to. It’s happened on this forum a few times.

If you truly think I am trolling Damian, then more fool you for responding. I am always happy to have an adult discussion about Rugby League, other sports and other non-sporting matters. I suspect if we met in a bar, we would have an enjoyable chat and enjoy each other’s company.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Sports Prophet

[Pulga]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Is the good reason that the AFL was better than and is better now at expanding its footprint outside its heartlands and developing new players at the same time than the NRL is?

Nobody's arguing that. 

The AFL is better run than the NRL. No doubt.

The thing is that Poms whinging about player development are barking up the wrong tree when the Storm are bigger than any two SL clubs combined. 

If England could focus on what's important they could see progress in their game.

[gingerjon]

33 minutes ago, Pulga said:

Nobody's arguing that. 

The AFL is better run than the NRL. No doubt.

The thing is that Poms whinging about player development are barking up the wrong tree when the Storm are bigger than any two SL clubs combined. 

If England could focus on what's important they could see progress in their game.

But the Storm were bigger than any two SL clubs combined at the moment they were formed.

And I’d expect any SL club area to feature more than 2.5 players over 2.5 decades.

[Spidey]

 

1 hour ago, Pulga said:

Nobody's arguing that. 

The AFL is better run than the NRL. No doubt.

The thing is that Poms whinging about player development are barking up the wrong tree when the Storm are bigger than any two SL clubs combined. 

If England could focus on what's important they could see progress in their game.

No whinging. But celebrating 5 players given the resources and profile of Melbourne is over the top. 

[Griff]

12 minutes ago, Spidey said:

No whinging. But celebrating 5 players given the resources and profile of Melbourne is over the top. 

I'm still chuckling at how proud they are of producing a player every five years.

[Pulga]

50 minutes ago, Spidey said:

 

No whinging. But celebrating 5 players given the resources and profile of Melbourne is over the top. 

Tbf it's one tweet.

 

[unapologetic pedant]

4 hours ago, Griff said:

I'm still chuckling at how proud they are of producing a player every five years.

It's the Victorian RL and schools who "produce" juniors. Like all NRL clubs, Storm then attempt to develop those local products into first-graders.

Due to cultural and demographic factors, some areas are far more productive than others. The Roosters haven't brought many players through from Eastern Suburbs JRL in the past 25 years.

Both Storm and Roosters have excelled at talent identification and development.

[unapologetic pedant]

7 hours ago, Damien said:

I wouldn't want to go as far as @The Future is League and say you are a banned AFL troll from League Unlimited, because I'd like to think you aren't actually that sad, and would like to give you a little more credit than that.

Context is everything. I'm an AFL troll on L.U. 

Go easy on SP. He's on the rebound from Essendon 31 Collingwood 101.

6 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I am always happy to have an adult discussion about Rugby League, other sports and other non-sporting matters. I suspect if we met in a bar, we would have an enjoyable chat and enjoy each other’s company.

"Will you walk into my parlour" said a spider to a fly,

Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy.

[Griff]

12 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

It's the Victorian RL and schools who "produce" juniors. Like all NRL clubs, Storm then attempt to develop those local products into first-graders.

Due to cultural and demographic factors, some areas are far more productive than others.

Like the UK, then.

[unapologetic pedant]

3 minutes ago, Griff said:

Like the UK, then.

Major difference in my view is that NRL standards are higher than SL standards.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, unapologetic pedant said:

It's the Victorian RL and schools who "produce" juniors. Like all NRL clubs, Storm then attempt to develop those local products into first-graders.

Due to cultural and demographic factors, some areas are far more productive than others. The Roosters haven't brought many players through from Eastern Suburbs JRL in the past 25 years.

Both Storm and Roosters have excelled at talent identification and development.

But surely when you are the only professional club in a traditionally non-RL region there is an onus on you to play a large part too. It is after all to your benefit whether that be for potential players or fans. If its not played in schools work to get it played, put on camps etc. That is what English clubs do and I'm sure NRL clubs like Melbourne do too.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Damien

[Damien]

Articles like this show the game is certainly on the rise in Victoria:

2023 will go down as a milestone year for rugby league in Victoria with a record number of players joining local competitions around the state. 

Over 4,500 registered footy players have already registered across men's, women's and junior competitions, breaking the previous 2019 record of 4,431 players. 

With 30 clubs across Victoria and more than 250 teams in metropolitan competitions, playing in the Storm Premiership and Storm Junior League, the game has seen record-growth state-wide. 

Players are also joined by over 1,000 registered volunteers and 99 referees maintaining the game’s smooth operation both on and off-field. 

The growth has also seen female participation increase by 43%, prompting five clubs to field teams in the women’s first-grade competition this year, providing more opportunities than ever for females to play rugby league in Victoria.

https://www.melbournestorm.com.au/news/2023/06/08/nrl-vic-record/

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

But surely when you are the only professional club in a traditionally non-RL region there is an onus on you to play a large part too. It is after all to your benefit whether that be for potential players or fans. If its not played in schools work to get it played, put on camps etc. 

Wouldn't disagree with any of that. I said earlier in the thread the fecundity of their QLD feeder systems had led to a degree of culpable inertia. 

Let's not forget the club's provenance. They were a News Ltd creation conceived in the SL war. Not part of any strategic plan to grow grass roots RL in Victoria. Most people didn't think they'd last more than a few years. Including me.

Priorities are changing. Your following post illustrates the burgeoning role for Storm in Vic RL development.

2 hours ago, Damien said:

 That is what English clubs do and I'm sure NRL clubs like Melbourne do too.

@Griff presumably thinks NRL standards are not higher than SL standards. I believe they clearly are and that the discrepancy affects everything downstream. The gap between JRL in Melbourne and NRL is harder to bridge than the gap between JRL in London and SL. 

Several more players in Vic junior rep teams, had they been educated at somewhere like Patrician Brothers Fairfield or Keebra Park, would have made the NRL.

[DoubleD]

On 31/08/2023 at 22:40, unapologetic pedant said:

When I was scouring the Affiliated States results in "Rugby League Week" around 80s/90s, Melbourne was as barren as Adelaide is now.

Do not underestimate the cult of Fumbleball. Striking how often you see interviews with RL participants in Vic where they feel obliged to say things like "I've got nothing against AFL". Worse than being a non-Mormon in Utah.

You’ve hit the nail on the head with a few of your posts here. 

Melbourne have definitely relied too heavily on their Queensland feeder clubs as the supply chain. It’s only in the last 10 years where significant effort has gone into developing the game more effectively in Victoria. 

Fumbleball is a like a cult in Victoria and Melbourne in particular, hard to describe if you’ve not lived there but I would describe the dominance at a higher level than football in the UK. 

Western Australia has nearly as many participants of RL as Victoria state. The cult of fumbleball is less strong there and in general it’s a much more open market. Certainly would develop quicker with an NRL team based there. 

As Damien’s last link highlights, there are now some strong green shoots coming through in Victoria and the Storm are also working closely with the local state government to develop the game more widely. Great to see a side now starting up in Geelong

[Damien]

1 hour ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Wouldn't disagree with any of that. I said earlier in the thread the fecundity of their QLD feeder systems had led to a degree of culpable inertia. 

Let's not forget the club's provenance. They were a News Ltd creation conceived in the SL war. Not part of any strategic plan to grow grass roots RL in Victoria. Most people didn't think they'd last more than a few years. Including me.

Priorities are changing. Your following post illustrates the burgeoning role for Storm in Vic RL development.

I certainly think you have a point about inertia. When you are getting players of the quality of Billy Slater, Cameron Smith, Greg Inglis, Israel Folau, Cooper Cronk etc it probably seems pointless doing anything different and developing your own.

[DACS]

AFL has a huge grip on Victoria. There are fans of other sports, but the general population doesn't care. Most cities in Britain are like that with football. Go to Birmingham, Newcastle, Sheffield etc and football will the only sport anyone is interested in. The difference is that Melbourne is like London in terms of number clubs. If the EPL had far fewer teams and most of them were the London teams it would look very similar. The lower tier London teams would be much bigger in that imagined world, as they would be leveraging off the big clubs.

AFL has a strong foothold in Sydney and Brisbane, although here in Brisbane it lives and dies with the success of the Lions. When they were winning the threepeat I was forever being told by AFL fans that the sport would end up dominant here as well. They vanished along with the Lions' ability to win a game. The Lions are now back near the top, but the cockiness has gone. Also while the AFL have generally done a much better job with expansion, they have been as daft as the NRL in trying the Gold Coast.

[UTK]

Just on the "5" Victorians, anyone expecting a single Victorian to come through to the NRL in the first generation of their existence is simply dreaming, that is just not possible for a competition with the standard of the NRL.

The total number of Victorian juniors to have played in the NRL is actually 11 - Drury Low, Mahe Fonua, Young Tonumaipea, Richie Kennar, Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad (initially in NZ but played multiple years of juniors in Victoria), Jamayne Taunoa-Brown, Dean Ieremia, Kelma Tuilagi (same as CNK but more Victorian), Fonua Pole, Sione Finau, and Sua Fa'alogo 

Demonstrating the impact of having a generation of the Storm before producing players, 6 of those players have debuted from 2020 onwards.

 

 

[unapologetic pedant]

A few more details. There are 17 RL clubs in Melbourne. Along with names like Altona and Waverley I remember seeing in the 80s, 14 were formed in the past 25 years -

Northern Thunder (1999), Doveton Steelers (2001), South Eastern Titans (2007), Werribee Bears (2008), North West Wolves (2010), Eastern Raptors (2011), Casey Warriors (2013), Melton Broncos (2013), Frankston Raiders (2015), Truganina Rabbitohs (2015), Mernda Dragons (2015), Pakenham Eels (2016), Sunshine Cowboys (2016), Hume Eagles (2020 out of Hume City Bulldogs who were formed in 2016).

Clubs have proliferated in line with Polynesian migration. Much of the current Vic RL community were not there 20-25 years ago. There was huge cultural resistance to non-AFL sports. Storm could have spent millions back then and produced nothing. 

[Spidey]

14 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Major difference in my view is that NRL standards are higher than SL standards.

Another thread reminded me of this fact. Greg Eden has played in the NRL 

[Griff]

14 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Major difference in my view is that NRL standards are higher than SL standards.

Changing the subject slightly, just remind me how the Brisbane Broncos take-over of London Crusaders went. Not as easy as they thought?

[Damien]

1 hour ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Clubs have proliferated in line with Polynesian migration. Much of the current Vic RL community were not there 20-25 years ago. There was huge cultural resistance to non-AFL sports. Storm could have spent millions back then and produced nothing. 

Could is doing a lot of heavy lifting here and you could say the same about anywhere. I certainly don't see it as an excuse not to try. You could equally say that clubs have increased in line with the Storm taking development much more seriously and working with the Vic RL to develop the game, especially through things like tag and modified games up to u12s.

In a population of almost 7 million they should be looking at the Victorian RL community consisting of more than just Polynesians anyway, who are a tiny percentage of that population. Waiting on a little good fortune in terms of migration isn't a strategy. Yes it takes time but the longer you wait before taking it seriously the longer it will take.

[UTK]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

Another thread reminded me of this fact. Greg Eden has played in the NRL 

Eden went from not being able to get a run at the Broncs to a 40+ try season for Cas the very next season, not a strong argument against the initial statement there.

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, UTK said:

Eden went from not being able to get a run at the Broncs to a 40+ try season for Cas the very next season, not a strong argument against the initial statement there.

It’s a light hearted comment. Don’t be so serious

[The Rocket]

2 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Storm could have spent millions back then and produced nothing. 

They did, I remember reading a few years back that they had spent several million dollars on junior development in Melbourne over the previous twenty years. Things got so desperate that it was only a few years back they ran a campaign aimed at kids with the tag line " you can try both codes you know".

 

1 hour ago, Damien said:

You could equally say that clubs have increased in line with the Storm taking development much more seriously and working with the Vic RL to develop the game, especially through things like tag and modified games up to u12s.

This does to be the accepted wisdom, the Storm name, Storm colours, Storm involvement. Someone on here said the Storm relied for far too long on recruiting out of Qld-and I`d add NZ - and they were probably right.

I`d add one other thing here for all those that I`ve noticed have been knocking the Storm`s development success rate, I believe that these things may tend to be exponential up to a point. Getting that initial critical mass engagement is the hard part, once the game reaches that point, engagement will be a lot easier after that. Hopefully Rugby League in Victoria has now reached that point.

Edited September 3, 2023 by The Rocket