Underwhelming start to the pacific tournaments

[theswanmcr]

If only... we could have had a World Four Nations based off the last World Cup...

World Series: Four semi-finalists from World Cup - Australia, Samoa, England, New Zealand
World Championship: Other four from Quarter Finals - PNG, Tonga, Lebanon, Fiji

Two of those series played before next World Cup. 

World Cup of 12 teams - 3 groups of four. Top two plus two best runners up make quarters and then the next set of Four Nations starts. Gives even more added incentive to make the quarters and can justify having those 8 pre-qualify for next world cup.

If only... oh well.

[unapologetic pedant]

8 hours ago, Damien said:

If they don't expect that then it is entirely the fault of the said NRL leadership! Up until very recently it was absolutely the norm.

Kangaroos/Samoa game thread on L.U. had 3 pages of replies. Grand Final had 125. The NRL can't force their fanbase to follow international RL anymore than we can force Londoners to follow RL in general. They have to work with the grain and the majority tend to clock off after the respective GFs in sync with AFL fans.

On the upside, 18k in Townsville is respectable. The game rated around 600k across all platforms. 

In a code war context, the only Fumble the Pacific Championships are competing with is AFLW. Jillaroos/Kiwi Ferns got 75k on Fox, Samoa/Fiji got 26k. None of the AFLW games made the top 20 over the weekend. Clear advantage to NRL by dint of an international calendar.

[rlno1]

31 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Kangaroos/Samoa game thread on L.U. had 3 pages of replies. Grand Final had 125. The NRL can't force their fanbase to follow international RL anymore than we can force Londoners to follow RL in general. They have to work with the grain and the majority tend to clock off after the respective GFs in sync with AFL fans.

On the upside, 18k in Townsville is respectable. The game rated around 600k across all platforms. 

In a code war context, the only Fumble the Pacific Championships are competing with is AFLW. Jillaroos/Kiwi Ferns got 75k on Fox, Samoa/Fiji got 26k. None of the AFLW games made the top 20 over the weekend. Clear advantage to NRL by dint of an international calendar.

I think the NRL can start pumping out propaganda with their media partners. Stop the constant rhetoric about Origin being the pinnacle no need for it we never use to do now we do it all the time. If the leaders of our game want tests to be important put them in during the season but they are at the mercy of the broadcasters. We can go to Vegas to start the season FFS. We lack leadership, Abdo god knows what this clown does, News Corp lackey I'm sure. V'landys is a racing man who is a salesman.

Edited October 16, 2023 by rlno1

[UTK]

The NRL shot themselves in the foot by drawing out the CBA and losing Tonga to the England tour, something that is probably lucky to have happened in a sense because if successful it opens up opportunities for other nations that weren't even considerable before. Consequence is that they've lost the nation required to make a competitive 4-team top tier for the Pacific Championships, 3-nation tournaments make no sense unless it's a home/away thing and there's too big a gap to the next level.

Made a post the other day about the ridiculous staging strategy of Townsville, it will be interesting to see how Eden Park goes next week - should get a decent enough response but may still be too big for NZ-Samoa at this stage but I guess we'll find out. 

The Cook Islands are in a tough spot, even though RL is their national sport they simply don't possess the population to sustain a competitive team against even other pacific nations. It's a bit of a miracle that someone like Kayal Iro can be born/raised in CI and make it to the NRL and even that has a lot to do with his family.

FTA coverage on a main channel in prime-time is a step forward for post-season internationals which should be noted.

Regional Pacific tournament is something that needs to happen (as is also the case for every other region in the World) - RL has well and truly outgrown the previous 4N concept and it makes zero sense for it to return today. The numbers/performance gaps aren't perfect at this stage but the competitions do need to be larger than 3 nations.

[eal]

Yeah, the international weekend in the Pacific was a damp squib. 

[Bradman Better]

The only revelation from these internationals is that James Tedesco is the greatest full back since Billy Slater, and fully deserves to be captain of Australia.

[AB90]

4 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Kangaroos/Samoa game thread on L.U. had 3 pages of replies. Grand Final had 125. The NRL can't force their fanbase to follow international RL anymore than we can force Londoners to follow RL in general. They have to work with the grain and the majority tend to clock off after the respective GFs in sync with AFL fans.

On the upside, 18k in Townsville is respectable. The game rated around 600k across all platforms. 

In a code war context, the only Fumble the Pacific Championships are competing with is AFLW. Jillaroos/Kiwi Ferns got 75k on Fox, Samoa/Fiji got 26k. None of the AFLW games made the top 20 over the weekend. Clear advantage to NRL by dint of an international calendar.

Agreed. Reality is, the rugby league fan base and general population of Australia is far more interested in club rugby league over internationals. It is what it is. 

The British/European sporting system/mindset has a very clear hierarchy of internationals being the pinnacle with club sport behind it however that view point isn’t shared throughout all of the world which I appreciate can be hard for the British sporting population to get their head around.

Those ratings tv ratings look good however a standard Friday Night football game in OZ generates more viewers than the recent Aus/Sam game. If people prefer watching Broncos/Roosters then who are we to criticise.

[UTK]

1 hour ago, AB90 said:

Agreed. Reality is, the rugby league fan base and general population of Australia is far more interested in club rugby league over internationals. It is what it is. 

The British/European sporting system/mindset has a very clear hierarchy of internationals being the pinnacle with club sport behind it however that view point isn’t shared throughout all of the world which I appreciate can be hard for the British sporting population to get their head around.

Those ratings tv ratings look good however a standard Friday Night football game in OZ generates more viewers than the recent Aus/Sam game. If people prefer watching Broncos/Roosters then who are we to criticise.

This is absolutely the current reality and one where much work will need to be done in Australia over the next few years. 

At the same time, the game is still big enough in Australia to sustain a profitable International game even if it isn't considered the pinnacle at this stage. That 18k in Townsville is disappointing and reflects poor strategy on behalf of those in charge yet there's every chance that is the worst attendance of the Pacific Championship (it may not be but it's probably the safest guess). 

Despite 18k being likely the worst attendance of a poorly constructed Pacific Championship, based on current sales for the England/Tonga series the Townsville crowd could well eclipse attendance of every game in that series (TW capacity doesn't allow it to get above that but nonetheless). While our relative popularity of the International game isn't where it needs to be we're still getting enough following to stage quality International events provided the administration gets a clue (wishful thinking perhaps). It's also going to be an essential strategic vector for developing the game in NZ, which links to the NRL's interests in their next expansion bout so further investment in that area at least wouldn't surprise me.

[Odsal Outlaw]

It’s not the ideal start or format.  BUT, we have a pacific championship concept off and underway. It can build from here. 10 years ago this would have seemed unlikely. So let’s give it a chance. 
 

It is a bit strange that it doesn’t have Tonga and next year may not have Samoa but that is to our benefit so shouldn’t moan too much!

[Northern Eel]

21 hours ago, sam4731 said:

If you want to know the heart that is going into this tournament, look at the Kangaroos.

They are going home this week as opposed to spending time in camp with their teammates. I've obviously never played for my country but I'm guessing having that team camaraderie is one of the highlights.

For them, this is simply post season training for next year's SOO.

The rest of the international teams need to pull their socks up and provide genuine competition for Australia, who will then start to take it seriously when they really need to. Until then, they will just keep turning up and winning.

[Sports Prophet]

389k watched on Saturday across cap cities on FTA and nationally with Fox.

worse still, only 61k watched PNG v Cook Islands on Fox and this game didn’t even feature in the top 20 programmes for the day, 20th having 164k nationally.

This is a very average result and offers support for those arguing much Australian based interest in RL post NRL GF disappears.

The others which say a simple addition would have been a fourth team in both the Championships and the Bowl would see the NRL on the hook for all player payment and fixture venue costs doubling, let alone accomodation and other logistics vastly increasing also along with other costs. So this is something the NRL has no doubt considered before making a commercially viable judgement on two Tri nations events.

[Dirkgee]

16 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

389k watched on Saturday across cap cities on FTA and nationally with Fox.

worse still, only 61k watched PNG v Cook Islands on Fox and this game didn’t even feature in the top 20 programmes for the day, 20th having 164k nationally.

This is a very average result and offers support for those arguing much Australian based interest in RL post NRL GF disappears.

The others which say a simple addition would have been a fourth team in both the Championships and the Bowl would see the NRL on the hook for all player payment and fixture venue costs doubling, let alone accomodation and other logistics vastly increasing also along with other costs. So this is something the NRL has no doubt considered before making a commercially viable judgement on two Tri nations events.

It’s worth noting that on the same day was a constitutional referendum so by 6pm when polls shut almost every TV channel was doing exhaustive coverage of the results that were being counted. 
 

With the Aus v Samoa game starting at 8pm, the political coverage would have significantly taken away viewership from the match

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Northern Eel said:

The rest of the international teams need to pull their socks up and provide genuine competition for Australia, who will then start to take it seriously when they really need to. Until then, they will just keep turning up and winning.

Its easy to say international teams should pull up their socks but pretty hard though when the NRL pulls the strings. SOO gives the Aussies a huge advantage and allows players to play 3 intense games and be in camp, albeit in separate teams, to get combinations going. With no mid season international countries no longer get a game to prepare or even just get together. If countries had 3 mid season internationals, instead of these players playing for their clubs while 40 of Australia's best players get together, then I daresay they'd be far more competitive against Australia.

Even look at the scheduling for this, Samoa v New Zealand as the opening game would have given both a much stronger chance against Australia but no Samoa have to go into a match v Australia cold. There are little things that can be done to help these nations but everything always seems so weighted towards the Aussies when they don't need it and already hold all the cards.

[londonrlfan]

11 hours ago, theswanmcr said:

If only... we could have had a World Four Nations based off the last World Cup...

World Series: Four semi-finalists from World Cup - Australia, Samoa, England, New Zealand
World Championship: Other four from Quarter Finals - PNG, Tonga, Lebanon, Fiji

Two of those series played before next World Cup. 

World Cup of 12 teams - 3 groups of four. Top two plus two best runners up make quarters and then the next set of Four Nations starts. Gives even more added incentive to make the quarters and can justify having those 8 pre-qualify for next world cup.

If only... oh well.

Cause the dinosaurs in charge still think it's the 70s and 3 match test series are the future, even though tournaments draw the most interest.

We could've had a 6 team Continental Cup for example:

England, NZ, France, Samoa, Tonga, Lebanon

Let's be honest the Aussies would refuse to play, and it'd be a shame for PNG/Fiji to miss out, but that was more geographical based. 

Then a second tier tournament:

PNG, Fiji, Italy, Wales, Jamaica, USA

[Sports Prophet]

48 minutes ago, Dirkgee said:

It’s worth noting that on the same day was a constitutional referendum so by 6pm when polls shut almost every TV channel was doing exhaustive coverage of the results that were being counted. 
 

With the Aus v Samoa game starting at 8pm, the political coverage would have significantly taken away viewership from the match

That is almost certain, but I don’t think it would be by any significant margin in Sydney and Brisbane. Maybe for the channel hopper in Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne. Time will tell over the next couple of weekends.

[Exiled Wiganer]

It’ll be fine. Build the brand, sell the events, tell the stories. We have the greatest game. These are the first steps after many years of neglect. It will grow and grow. 

When I started watching, a tournament on this scale was an impossible dream. 

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

It’ll be fine. Build the brand, sell the events, tell the stories. We have the greatest game. These are the first steps after many years of neglect. It will grow and grow. 

When I started watching, a tournament on this scale was an impossible dream. 

On this scale impossible to dream? 2 matches and possibly 3 is hardly some huge event. It's not even as big as the original Tri Nations  or 4 Nations.

[sam4731]

3 hours ago, Northern Eel said:

The rest of the international teams need to pull their socks up and provide genuine competition for Australia, who will then start to take it seriously when they really need to. Until then, they will just keep turning up and winning.

So the NRL can just keep hoovering up all the talent but expect the rest of the world to "pull their socks up"?

[Barley Mow]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Its easy to say international teams should pull up their socks but pretty hard though when the NRL pulls the strings. SOO gives the Aussies a huge advantage and allows players to play 3 intense games and be in camp, albeit in separate teams, to get combinations going. With no mid season international countries no longer get a game to prepare or even just get together. If countries had 3 mid season internationals, instead of these players playing for their clubs while 40 of Australia's best players get together, then I daresay they'd be far more competitive against Australia.

Even look at the scheduling for this, Samoa v New Zealand as the opening game would have given both a much stronger chance against Australia but no Samoa have to go into a match v Australia cold. There are little things that can be done to help these nations but everything always seems so weighted towards the Aussies when they don't need it and already hold all the cards.

I half expected New Zealand to organise a warm up match against Fiji with neither playing until next weekend.

[Bamboozle]

5 hours ago, Odsal Outlaw said:

It’s not the ideal start or format.  BUT, we have a pacific championship concept off and underway. It can build from here. 10 years ago this would have seemed unlikely. So let’s give it a chance. 
 

It is a bit strange that it doesn’t have Tonga and next year may not have Samoa but that is to our benefit so shouldn’t moan too much!

The only reason I moan is because I know for a fact that the game could do much, much better with the extremely talented athletes, large numbers of enthusiastic supporters and world class stadiums at our disposal.

I just hope it isn’t canned after a couple of years like the 4nations tournament.

[Northern Eel]

2 hours ago, sam4731 said:

So the NRL can just keep hoovering up all the talent but expect the rest of the world to "pull their socks up"?

I know why you are challenging the phraseology. It is certainly not an easy home truth that Australia are, essentially, the masters of the whole international game and have been for some time. However, I would need to be convinced that the international programme (and the ability of the federation) is sufficient to change anything of the status quo in the game. Until it is, why would Australia even consider taking the international game any more seriously? The rest of the world doesn't have the balls to cut Australia out of their thinking. Australia dictate everything. Until that changes, nothing else will. Should they just let it happen? I think not.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Northern Eel

[Northern Eel]

3 hours ago, Damien said:

Its easy to say international teams should pull up their socks but pretty hard though when the NRL pulls the strings. SOO gives the Aussies a huge advantage and allows players to play 3 intense games and be in camp, albeit in separate teams, to get combinations going. With no mid season international countries no longer get a game to prepare or even just get together. If countries had 3 mid season internationals, instead of these players playing for their clubs while 40 of Australia's best players get together, then I daresay they'd be far more competitive against Australia.

Even look at the scheduling for this, Samoa v New Zealand as the opening game would have given both a much stronger chance against Australia but no Samoa have to go into a match v Australia cold. There are little things that can be done to help these nations but everything always seems so weighted towards the Aussies when they don't need it and already hold all the cards.

The 'pulling up of the socks' is a catch-all phrase to point out that, if we just allow the domination to continue and the same strings to be pulled, nothing will change. We either stand and wait for nothing, or do something about it. Our game seems devoid of ideas as to how they might actually challenge the status quo.

[sam4731]

14 minutes ago, Northern Eel said:

I know why you are challenging the phraseology. It is certainly not an easy home truth that Australia are, essentially, the masters of the whole international game and have been for some time. However, I would need to be convinced that the international programme (and the ability of the federation) is sufficient to change anything of the status quo in the game. Until it is, why would Australia even consider taking the international game any more seriously? The rest of the world doesn't have the balls to cut Australia out of their thinking. Australia dictate everything. Until that changes, nothing else will. Should they just let it happen? I think not.

I agree to some extent that the IRL needs to have some balls and say its our way or the highway. If they don't comply, let them get the backlash from the players who still want to get a kangaroo jumper. Would also call the bluff of NZ and pacific countries who would have to take sides. Do I think this will happen? No.

[eal]

I don't really have a lot of faith that the NRL has a long term goal for the international game. Given how well they organize the NRL, SOO, Magic Round, and now Las Vegas, it seems baffling that organizing a decent international tournament with good promotion, excitement, etc is so far beyond them.

[Bamboozle]

3 minutes ago, eal said:

I don't really have a lot of faith that the NRL has a long term goal for the international game. Given how well they organize the NRL, SOO, Magic Round, and now Las Vegas, it seems baffling that organizing a decent international tournament with good promotion, excitement, etc is so far beyond them.

Can’t have the international game upstaging the jewel in the crown namely state of origin.