England vs Samoa Series

[Worzel]

On 02/04/2024 at 17:42, Dave T said:

So, does anyone think we've missed the boat on Samoa? 

Sadly, I think we have. Hope that I'm wrong. No idea what Paul thinks though - anyone know?

[Worzel]

1 hour ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Brentford is the place however expect the usual suspects which will be depressing 

It will be at Leigh and Doncaster. On a Thursday night. In the rain. 

[Gomersall]

45 minutes ago, Click said:

I'd hope we would be aiming to beat 17k for attendance. Has an England game in London ever got that low amount?

GB have had two games under 17k, both at Wembley in 1963 and 1973. The 1973 game was sub 10k!

[Archie Gordon]

And all the while we dawdle, other sports with sharper elbows push past us. 

[sam4731]

43 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

It's one of those frustrating situations because if it goes to 2-0, I do think that a third test can feel a bit pointless. But if it goes to 1-1, I would like a decisive 3rd test. Otherwise it's unfinished business.

Winner of the series on aggregate?

[Dave T]

51 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

It's one of those frustrating situations because if it goes to 2-0, I do think that a third test can feel a bit pointless. But if it goes to 1-1, I would like a decisive 3rd test. Otherwise it's unfinished business.

Unless you just count aggregate if you really want a series winned? 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Click said:

I'd hope we would be aiming to beat 17k for attendance. Has an England game in London ever got that low amount?

My aspiration for this would be 20-25k for this game, but if we managed to absolutely pack out a 17.2k stadium, that would be far better than what we did last year. 

We should remember that whilst we often do quite well in London, it isn't a given, we've only ever staged huge games there, I.e versus the Aussie or Kiwis. The Samoa crowd was solid for a World Cup Semi at Arsenal, but this series would be nothing like that. 

I'm not sure if there are any decent grounds around the 25k mark that would be suitable. 

[Click]

24 minutes ago, Dave T said:

My aspiration for this would be 20-25k for this game, but if we managed to absolutely pack out a 17.2k stadium, that would be far better than what we did last year. 

We should remember that whilst we often do quite well in London, it isn't a given, we've only ever staged huge games there, I.e versus the Aussie or Kiwis. The Samoa crowd was solid for a World Cup Semi at Arsenal, but this series would be nothing like that. 

I'm not sure if there are any decent grounds around the 25k mark that would be suitable. 

I am honestly not that hopeful that we will even get an England test in London this year. 

Being an RL fan in the South is pretty *&$"

[Dave T]

18 minutes ago, Click said:

I am honestly not that hopeful that we will even get an England test in London this year. 

Being an RL fan in the South is pretty *&$"

I agree. I think this is partly a response to finding that three tests all within 50/60 miles was a bad idea - so they will reduce it to 2 tests within 50/60 miles. 

If I had to put money on, it would be Wigan and Leeds or similar.

[Click]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I agree. I think this is partly a response to finding that three tests all within 50/60 miles was a bad idea - so they will reduce it to 2 tests within 50/60 miles. 

If I had to put money on, it would be Wigan and Leeds or similar.

Yeah, that is how I feel it will be done. 

"We only have 2 tests this year, gotta play them both in the North"

[Anita Bath]

If they are intending playing them at football grounds they might have to wait until June when the football fixtures come out to see which grounds would be available.

 

My bet would be on Headingly and Warrington.

[gingerjon]

14 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I agree. I think this is partly a response to finding that three tests all within 50/60 miles was a bad idea - so they will reduce it to 2 tests within 50/60 miles. 

If I had to put money on, it would be Wigan and Leeds or similar.

I'll echo the suggestion above that one will be Warrington and the other will be Headingley.

[M j M]

30 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

If they are intending playing them at football grounds they might have to wait until June when the football fixtures come out to see which grounds would be available.

That's not the case. Like in our sport soccer clubs flag dates their ground isn't available. Old Trafford isn't always free for the Grand Final by chance.

[17 stone giant]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Unless you just count aggregate if you really want a series winned? 

You make it sound as though wanting a decisive winner is a weird thing. I think it's more abnormal to set things up with a fair chance of things ending in a draw at 1-1.

As I said, if it's 2-0, there's no great problem with it. But I'm wondering what the narrative would be and how it would look to viewers on tv, if after the 2nd test England had just played very well to level the series. Would there not be people asking why there is no decider? And I'm not sure that telling them "oh we'll just add up the points from the two games to produce a winner" is going to be particularly impressive.

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

You make it sound as though wanting a decisive winner is a weird thing. I think it's more abnormal to set things up with a fair chance of things ending in a draw at 1-1.

As I said, if it's 2-0, there's no great problem with it. But I'm wondering what the narrative would be and how it would look to viewers on tv, if after the 2nd test England had just played very well to level the series. Would there not be people asking why there is no decider? And I'm not sure that telling them "oh we'll just add up the points from the two games to produce a winner" is going to be particularly impressive.

Nobody suggested it is weird. 

I don't think anyone would think too much of it. Aggregate score is a perfectly valid way of doing something like this and nobody would bat an eyelid. 

[17 stone giant]

12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I don't think anyone would think too much of it. Aggregate score is a perfectly valid way of doing something like this and nobody would bat an eyelid. 

I obviously disagree, because although I won't be batting my eyelids at anything, I would find it a bit unsatisfactory if it ended 1-1. But there's no right or wrong answer - it's just an opinion, and I'm happy if everyone else feels differently.

I will just ask though, would you feel the same way if The Ashes was a two match series, with the potential to be decided by aggregate score?

[Dave T]

16 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

I obviously disagree, because although I won't be batting my eyelids at anything, I would find it a bit unsatisfactory if it ended 1-1. But there's no right or wrong answer - it's just an opinion, and I'm happy if everyone else feels differently.

I will just ask though, would you feel the same way if The Ashes was a two match series, with the potential to be decided by aggregate score?

I care little for the Ashes if I'm honest. Three test series are not my favourite things

[JM2010]

I would like to see England take on France at the end of the season and then maybe even Samoa play France on the way too

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I care little for the Ashes if I'm honest. Three test series are not my favourite things

Aggregate scores for a series are not a good idea. You need to let this suggestion go to a farm upstate for its retirement.

[17 stone giant]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I care little for the Ashes if I'm honest. Three test series are not my favourite things

Fair enough. I don't completely disagree with you about 3 test series, although The Ashes is the one series that I would retain as three matches.

i like Four Nations events because you don't have teams missing a week and it adds more variety and more matches. I appreciate that's probably not possible or feasible this year though.

I probably would also even have preferred a Tri-Nations with England, France and Samoa, but I guess that too takes longer than is available. Unless you could tinker with it a bit. Would playing twice in a week be too much, even allowing for the fact that France are not at the same level as Eng/Samoa?

Tue - England vs France

Sat - England vs Samoa

Wed - Samoa vs France

Sun - Final

 

 

[Dave T]

21 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Aggregate scores for a series are not a good idea. You need to let this suggestion go to a farm upstate for its retirement.

I don't mind a drawn series tbh, the RLWC showed how aggregates could kill a series after the first game. 

I think 3 test series are a little archaic though, and I'm disappointed that we are just trying to retain them but with less attractive teams. If that's how we get games, so be it, but I much prefer things like tri and four nations tournaments. 

[Dave T]

15 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

Fair enough. I don't completely disagree with you about 3 test series, although The Ashes is the one series that I would retain as three matches.

i like Four Nations events because you don't have teams missing a week and it adds more variety and more matches. I appreciate that's probably not possible or feasible this year though.

I probably would also even have preferred a Tri-Nations with England, France and Samoa, but I guess that too takes longer than is available. Unless you could tinker with it a bit. Would playing twice in a week be too much, even allowing for the fact that France are not at the same level as Eng/Samoa?

Tue - England vs France

Sat - England vs Samoa

Wed - Samoa vs France

Sun - Final

 

 

Tri series with France can always work, but would need three weekends for touring teams. England could play France in Wk1 while Samoa play Tonga in Oz. Then Samoa v Eng, Samoa v France and then a final, which you'd expect Eng to make. Not perfect schedules, but means three games in England for the touring team like last year instead of three this year. 

[BristolDevonCharlie]

5 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Warm up - Cumbria v England

Home nations - Wales v England

Test 1 - England v Samoa (London)

Test 2 - England v Samoa (M62)

 

6 hours ago, Dave T said:

 If we can get another game, probably France as well to give us three games that's OK.

 

6 hours ago, Jack GB said:

If it's only 2 tests we need to also be playing France for 2 tests too to test out combinations, develop the team etc. (the france tests could be in france)

 

France and Wales will both be in World Cup qualifying this autumn. Since the demotion of Italy, Scotland and Ireland it seems that only four European teams are eligible for RLWC 2025, so that is likely to be a European Championship over four weeks (round robin and final) to decide who qualifies for the World Series 2025.

Unlikely that France or Wales will play more than 3 or 4 games in the autumn window. 

Lebanon won't be doing anything much. Maybe them for a one-off game against England? (Plus they could warm up by playing Ireland or Scotland?) 

Edited April 26 by BristolDevonCharlie

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, BristolDevonCharlie said:

 

 

France and Wales will both be in World Cup qualifying this autumn. Since the demotion of Italy, Scotland and Ireland it seems that only four European teams are eligible for RLWC 2025, so that is likely to be a European Championship over four weeks (round robin and final) to decide who qualifies for the World Series 2025.

Unlikely that France or Wales will play more than 3 or 4 games in the autumn window. 

Lebanon won't be doing anything much. Maybe them for a one-off game against England?

I wouldn't be surprised if WC qualifying is a game of rock, paper, scissors over zoom. 

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

I agree. I think this is partly a response to finding that three tests all within 50/60 miles was a bad idea - so they will reduce it to 2 tests within 50/60 miles. 

If I had to put money on, it would be Wigan and Leeds or similar.

Wigan, Leeds and Brentford would be a pretty good spread and should get decent crowds at each.