Jack Welsby new Saints contract confirmed

[NRLandSL]

14 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Two things you say

"Reputation is a completely different thing to quality, SL players will never be as reputable as the Aussies but that does not mean they can’t be as good"

So how other than proving yourself to be the best in the best competition do you aquire that reputation? Of course it does not mean they can't be that good but the proof of the pudding is doing it.

Secondly, 

"This is the same argument Ronaldo fans to criticise Messi for not playing in the Prem"

What is this fatuation than many posters have in quoting the round ball game as though it substantially improves their argument, it means nothing to me when footballers are mentioned.

When talking about Reputation I am comparing the Best SL players to most NRL players. In the NRL there is a lot more fans and eyes, therefore most NRL players are far more reputable by default. 

There is nothing wrong with Analogies from another sport, and my statement is pretty Clear. The guy i was responding to was saying Welsby is not a top 5 player in the world because he doesn’t play in the NRL. So I referred to a pretty famous example were this same argument is used.

Edited December 21, 2023 by NRLandSL

[hindle xiii]

3 hours ago, NRLandSL said:

Imagine being a young kid from bloody Dewbury or something and you dream of become the greatest rugby league player of all time, yet you can never be that unless you move to the other of the world according to some people, it’s silly.

Sam Burgess.

[HawkMan]

48 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

When talking about Reputation I am comparing the Best SL players to most NRL players. In the NRL there is a lot more fans and eyes, therefore most NRL players are far more reputable by default. 

There is nothing wrong with Analogies from another sport, and my statement is pretty Clear. The guy i was responding to was saying Welsby is not a top 5 player in the world because he doesn’t play in the NRL. So I referred to a pretty famous example were this same argument is used.

The difference with Messi and Welsby is that Messi didn't need to come to the Prem to prove anything.

There's lots of big leagues, European competition, CL etc,  for Messi to prove he was/is a superstar.

Welsby has only the NRL to choose to play in a superior competition, to improve as a player,  playing with the very best. 

A better comparison might be Harry Kane who moved to Bayern Munich to win things, improve as a player and experience something other than his comfort zone. Anyway Welsby is free to choose so good luck to him.

Edited December 21, 2023 by HawkMan

[HawkMan]

..

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by HawkMan

[MattSantos]

I would have liked to see him go now and try and become a 6. I think he could be a superstar at that position.

With respect to how good he is, he's not in the top 3 full backs in the world at the moment and would need to prove it to be justifiably mentioned in the same conversation as Ponga and Walsh, never mind alongside Cleary et al as the best in the world as well

Choice of club is massive. I'd hate to see him at Wests or some other basket case like the Dragons. Saying that, a massive club brings it's own pressure in that market.

[del capo]

3 hours ago, hindle xiii said:

Sam Burgess.

I think you took the bait on that one....................

[graveyard johnny]

he could have gone to the NRL  and if it didn't work out play the old "homesickness" card that usually gets pulled out if things are not lovely jubbly 

[Jonty58]

9 hours ago, NRLandSL said:

@Jonty58 if you disagree with what I have to say, respond to it. Don’t just go and laugh at all of my posts.

I disagree with a lot of your posts.

I am guessing you are a youngster.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Jonty58

[NRLandSL]

4 hours ago, MattSantos said:

I would have liked to see him go now and try and become a 6. I think he could be a superstar at that position.

With respect to how good he is, he's not in the top 3 full backs in the world at the moment and would need to prove it to be justifiably mentioned in the same conversation as Ponga and Walsh, never mind alongside Cleary et al as the best in the world as well

Why Would Jack Welsby a 22 year old has won everything and proved on plenty of occasions he is better than the NRL’s best, have to prove himself to be “in the same conversation” as a 21 year old who’s had one solid season. That is a remarkable silly comment.

And Jack Welsby has already come up against the world best at the start of year and again how did that go. He is firmly one of the best players in the world, again this debate should have been after the start of this season.

Edited December 21, 2023 by NRLandSL

[NRLandSL]

1 hour ago, Jonty58 said:

I disagree with a lot of your posts.

I am guessing you are a youngster.

“A Youngster” because of a differing opinion.

You’re very entitled to disagree with me but disagree with me properly instead of just laughing at all of my posts. 

[AB90]

10 hours ago, NRLandSL said:

We have Differing opinions about the influence of Reputation on someone’s quality.

I personally Believe someone’s Reputation has absolutely nothing to do with how good a player is, especially in a sport in which the fans are so segregated. But for you it seems you need a player playing bright lights for them to reach the top.

Also I’ll mention Jack Welsby is definitely house hold name down here in aus after the World Cup and especially the WCC. I think NRL fans are very aware that Welsby is special, most don’t know to how much extent he is special but he’s still pretty popular.  Some NRL clubs have reportedly offered almost 1 Mil a year for Welsby, which would be make him around 7-8 highest paid player in the comp, if some NRL clubs rank him that highly I think it’s fair to say most people in Oceania have “a clue who he is”. 

But ‘how good someone is’ is just an opinion. All these top 10, 20 lists, who the best half in the world is etc are just that….opinions of the experts, media and fan base. Now unfortunately for English based SL players, the vast majority of those rugby league experts, media & fan base are based in the Southern Hemisphere and only watch the NRL. So to become a consensus top X player you need to obtain the opinions the largest rugby league market on the world.

If you put a poll out to every world expert, media & fan and asked ‘is Jack Welsby a top 5 player in the world’ and the answer comes back an overwhelming majority ‘no’ (which it would you are literally the only person that thinks this) then guess what - that means he’s not a top 5 player in the world. The public determine who the best players are in team sports.

You labelling Welsby as a top 5 player in the world is just your own opinion which could be wright or wrong. No different to you suggesting that Lachie Miller would be the starting fullback for ‘most’ NRL teams and that Matt Frawley is an incredibly talented halfback.

[Jonty58]

43 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

“A Youngster” because of a differing opinion.

You’re very entitled to disagree with me but disagree with me properly instead of just laughing at all of my posts. 

No, I asked are you a younger fan as many of your posts appear to be how a young fan often thinks.

Anyway I am not much for lists of top five, top ten, or top 20 players in the world or terms than commentators use like “World Class”

Too many things change from year to year, players lose form or get long term injuries that often has an affect on their performance.

Super League and the NRL are not comparable in many ways either other than they play a similar version of the same Sport.

[NRLandSL]

28 minutes ago, AB90 said:

But ‘how good someone is’ is just an opinion. All these top 10, 20 lists, who the best half in the world is etc are just that….opinions of the experts, media and fan base. Now unfortunately for English based SL players, the vast majority of those rugby league experts, media & fan base are based in the Southern Hemisphere and only watch the NRL. So to become a consensus top X player you need to obtain the opinions the largest rugby league market on the world.

If you put a poll out to every world expert, media & fan and asked ‘is Jack Welsby a top 5 player in the world’ and the answer comes back an overwhelming majority ‘no’ (which it would you are literally the only person that thinks this) then guess what - that means he’s not a top 5 player in the world. The public determine who the best players are in team sports.

You labelling Welsby as a top 5 player in the world is just your own opinion which could be wright or wrong. No different to you suggesting that Lachie Miller would be the starting fullback for ‘most’ NRL teams and that Matt Frawley is an incredibly talented halfback.

Of course it is my opinion, we are both expressing our opinions and both allowed to do so. 

There is no centralised rugby league public, and like you mentioned 75% of rugby league fans in the word have probably bearly heard of Welsby and never watched him, so it is not possible to question the whole rugby league community as most wouldn’t have a clue what there talking about. Someone who doesn’t watch the SL should never be entitled to make a judgement on him.

I’m not sure why you keep making out that if NRL fans get to decide how good Welsby is. 99.9% of Aussie NRL fans have never watched a game of SL in there life and even fewer actually watch SL consistently like myself. The only people who should be making a judgement on how good Welsby is compared the rest of the world is people who watch both NRL and SL consistently.

[NRLandSL]

10 minutes ago, Jonty58 said:

No, I asked are you a younger fan as many of your posts appear to be how a young fan often thinks.

Anyway I am not much for lists of top five, top ten, or top 20 players in the world or terms than commentators use like “World Class”

Too many things change from year to year, players lose form or get long term injuries that often has an affect on their performance.

Super League and the NRL are not comparable in many ways either other than they play a similar version of the same Sport.

Think what you wan’t buddy, there is nothing wrong with lists and terms for players and it is entirely subjective, just a different way from your own of illustrating the world best. Lists are not at all set a stone and I am completely aware things can change in an instant.

Super League and the NRL are incrediblely comparable, and are both quality first grade rugby league competitions. Just like how the Premier League and Serie A are incredibly Comparable and both Quality first grade football competitions.

[AB90]

1 hour ago, NRLandSL said:

Of course it is my opinion, we are both expressing our opinions and both allowed to do so. 

There is no centralised rugby league public, and like you mentioned 75% of rugby league fans in the word have probably bearly heard of Welsby and never watched him, so it is not possible to question the whole rugby league community as most wouldn’t have a clue what there talking about. Someone who doesn’t watch the SL should never be entitled to make a judgement on him.

I’m not sure why you keep making out that if NRL fans get to decide how good Welsby is. 99.9% of Aussie NRL fans have never watched a game of SL in there life and even fewer actually watch SL consistently like myself. The only people who should be making a judgement on how good Welsby is compared the rest of the world is people who watch both NRL and SL consistently.

Pretty hard to be considered a consensus top 5 player when as you say, 75% of the rugby league world have probably barley heard of him or watched him play (you previously said Welsby was ‘definitely a household name’ in Australia - both statements can’t be true!).

Im not saying NRL fans get to decide how good Welsby is. Im saying the wider rugby league public get to decide however it just so happens that the majority of the games fans are based in the southern hemisphere and only watch the NRL.

So essentially in your opinion no one can have any opinion on the best players in any sport unless they watch all professional competitions of that sport. This is fantasy land!

[NRLandSL]

1 hour ago, AB90 said:

Pretty hard to be considered a consensus top 5 player when as you say, 75% of the rugby league world have probably barley heard of him or watched him play (you previously said Welsby was ‘definitely a household name’ in Australia - both statements can’t be true!).

Im not saying NRL fans get to decide how good Welsby is. Im saying the wider rugby league public get to decide however it just so happens that the majority of the games fans are based in the southern hemisphere and only watch the NRL.

So essentially in your opinion no one can have any opinion on the best players in any sport unless they watch all professional competitions of that sport. This is fantasy land!

We’re going in circles so I’ll stop the argument.

[frank]

I said in a previous post that I didn't rate Welsby, but, according to  NRLand SL this guy has won everything.  Welsby is playing in a league, where, unlike the NRL,  outstanding players are  hard  to find. One could pick  out many NRL players ahead of this guy. I hope Welsby makes it to  the NRL and proves me wrong

 

[NRLandSL]

35 minutes ago, frank said:

I said in a previous post that I didn't rate Welsby, but, according to  NRLand SL this guy has won everything.  Welsby is playing in a league, where, unlike the NRL,  outstanding players are  hard  to find. One could pick  out many NRL players ahead of this guy. I hope Welsby makes it to  the NRL and proves me wrong

 

Mate Welsby does not need to “make it to the NRL”. He has already beat the NRL champions and proved he is one of the best in the world.

[Dunbar]

8 hours ago, Jonty58 said:

No, I asked are you a younger fan as many of your posts appear to be how a young fan often thinks.

Wondering what the cut off is to be considered a youngster on here?

[Jonty58]

7 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Wondering what the cut off is to be considered a youngster on here?

Under 30 years old

Edited December 22, 2023 by Jonty58

[JohnM]

4 hours ago, NRLandSL said:

Mate Welsby does not need to “make it to the NRL”. He has already beat the NRL champions and proved he is one of the best in the world.

One swallow and all that......

However, it's good for SuperLeague in my view that Saints have been able to retain him for a few more years. Perhaps, too, he's learnt from those who've gone to Australia and not settled there. Family ties, homesickness possibility, cultural differences and a natural aversion to risk.  

[NRLandSL]

2 minutes ago, JohnM said:

One swallow and all that......

However, it's good for SuperLeague in my view that Saints have been able to retain him for a few more years. Perhaps, too, he's learnt from those who've gone to Australia and not settled there. Family ties, homesickness possibility, cultural differences and a natural aversion to risk.  

If you watch Jack Welsby on James James Graham he talks about Saint Helens being his home and that he could never see himself playing for anyone else. He’s now resigned with saints for probably like 300,000 grand less than NRL offers, he seems a very loyal character.

[Dunbar]

57 minutes ago, Jonty58 said:

Under 30 years old

Damn, just missed.

[JohnM]

52 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

If you watch Jack Welsby on James James Graham he talks about Saint Helens being his home and that he could never see himself playing for anyone else. He’s now resigned with saints for probably like 300,000 grand less than NRL offers, he seems a very loyal character.

I never deliberately watch anything to do with Saint Helens. Standards, you understand. Standards.

[Jonty58]

48 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Damn, just missed.

I had you pegged for a young at heart late 40 something.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Jonty58