Dartsifying Rugby League

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The biggest stars in my time have been Martin Offiah, Jonathan Davies, Jason Robinson, Vaiga Tuigamala, Sam Burgess, Andy Farrell etc. Every one has an RU link. The likes of Sculthorpe are never featured outside of RL circles. 

I think the odd one out there is Offiah, in that he didn't make his name in RU. Everyone else on that list is known by the wider public primarily because of what they've done in RU.

[Dunbar]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

Maybe, Ellery Hanley, but I think as RL fans we will overstate his profile. 

I'm not sure about that.  In the quarter of a century since his retirement and the disappearance of our sport behind a paywall (like many sports), I think we forget how big a name Hanley was in the sporting landscape when we were a terrestrial sport.

If anything, I think we underestimate his profile.

Edited January 7 by Dunbar

[Rugbyleaguesupporter]

@Dave Tyes- internationals a missed opportunity for us (RU generates most of its income from them). 

And very few people knew of Sculthorpe. And I think sub 5% of the national population could name Jack Welsby or George Williams. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

57 minutes ago, Rugbyleaguesupporter said:

@Dave Tyes- internationals a missed opportunity for us (RU generates most of its income from them). 

And very few people knew of Sculthorpe. And I think sub 5% of the national population could name Jack Welsby or George Williams. 

Alas I'd go much lower than that

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I'm not sure about that.  In the quarter of a century since his retirement and the disappearance of our sport behind a paywall (like many sports), I think we forget how big a name Hanley was in the sporting landscape when we were a terrestrial sport.

If anything, I think we underestimate his profile.

I'm just not so sure. How well known was he really? Was he a regular on QoS and being nominated for national sports awards? 

I was relatively young, so may be misremembering, but I just don't recall any significant level of interest outside of RL. 

[Dave T]

I often make this point about individuals in team sports. There are very few real huge stars that could be named unprompted. That isn't the nature of those sports. 

If we take casual fans, i.e. Non-dedicated followers of the sports, I suggest very few can name many, if any RU players, and even football would be the same. I follow football to an extent, and when I watch the major international tournaments, I'd struggle to name the England starting 11 and their clubs. But those tournaments put them in front of us. 

As much as football is huge, big stars of individual sports (Henman, Murray, Johnson, Taylor, Christie, Faldo, McIlroy, Ennis) and the like will often be bigger than the vast majority of team sport players - obviously we have breakthrough stars like Beckham etc or a handful of top England and PL stars each generation. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

28 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm just not so sure. How well known was he really? Was he a regular on QoS and being nominated for national sports awards? 

I was relatively young, so may be misremembering, but I just don't recall any significant level of interest outside of RL. 

I agree with that. He was massive within RL, and for people with a passing interest in it. I reckon he would've been a household name had he done media stuff and not maintained a wall of silence. Offiah was the big name that people knew.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

22 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I often make this point about individuals in team sports. There are very few real huge stars that could be named unprompted. That isn't the nature of those sports. 

If we take casual fans, i.e. Non-dedicated followers of the sports, I suggest very few can name many, if any RU players, and even football would be the same. I follow football to an extent, and when I watch the major international tournaments, I'd struggle to name the England starting 11 and their clubs. But those tournaments put them in front of us. 

As much as football is huge, big stars of individual sports (Henman, Murray, Johnson, Taylor, Christie, Faldo, McIlroy, Ennis) and the like will often be bigger than the vast majority of team sport players - obviously we have breakthrough stars like Beckham etc or a handful of top England and PL stars each generation. 

Fair point. Is the trick therefore to market the teams, almost like the NFL do? E.g. Warriors v Rhinos rather than Wigan v Leeds? Or do we already do this but it just doesn't have the cut-through?

[Tommygilf]

5 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Fair point. Is the trick therefore to market the teams, almost like the NFL do? E.g. Warriors v Rhinos rather than Wigan v Leeds? Or do we already do this but it just doesn't have the cut-through?

I think there is an element of both. Whilst the town/city names give an authenticity to a clash, there is no doubt at all from anyone who has gone beyond RL land that they also have a clear amount of "baggage" associated with them. That baggage isn't all negative, but it clearly is there. Anyone pretending it isn't is deluding themselves.

It's a hard one to judge, some clubs have just gone with a name and little else, others have done it much better. As a sport we seem a bit embarrassed by it at times, but these often tend to be at the clubs who treat the nicknames with embarrassment anyway. 

I think a mixture of both isn't a problem, as ever it is about using what we have to the audience it is most appealing to. 

[Eddie]

6 hours ago, Dave T said:

I'm just not so sure. How well known was he really? Was he a regular on QoS and being nominated for national sports awards? 

I was relatively young, so may be misremembering, but I just don't recall any significant level of interest outside of RL. 

I think most blokes in their 40s and 50s in non heartlands areas but who like sport would know who Hanley is. 

[RigbyLuger]

Doesn't really matter who knows who from the past, but how we make more of what we have today. 

[Mattrhino]

As said before Darts was always massive with household names. Me Nan used to go to Lakeside every year in the 1980's and 1990's.

All Sky and Hearn have done is turned it into an awful stag party, pantomime. I love darts but you wouldn't see me going to watch it live.

 

[Mattrhino]

19 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I'm not sure about that.  In the quarter of a century since his retirement and the disappearance of our sport behind a paywall (like many sports), I think we forget how big a name Hanley was in the sporting landscape when we were a terrestrial sport.

If anything, I think we underestimate his profile.

Similar to boxing. You'd have old granny's watching Eubank, Benn, Bruno. They would be on every prime time tv show. Most of the population today would struggle to name a boxer today.

[tuutaisrambo]

On 05/01/2024 at 17:01, Dave T said:

Neither has RL. You've had a shocker tbh mate. 

I think you know what I was getting at.......

[JonM]

On 05/01/2024 at 20:18, Rugbyleaguesupporter said:

Two things id point out.

1. Turnover of pdc (£40m plus) is more than RFL

2. Sky tv deal on Sky (£22m) is double that of PDC darts (£11m) 

PDC can sell many more tickets- but undoubtedly do better with non tv income

This point interested me. PDC have quadrupled revenue inside a decade, so you might think there was something interesting happening there. However, it doesn't seem to hold any obvious lessons for RL. They were previously holding events in pubs when they started and only had four things on tv - now they have a proper tour, with events all round the world and use bigger venues, such as the O2. They turned down CVC in 2022, too.

[JonM]

5 hours ago, Mattrhino said:

Similar to boxing. You'd have old granny's watching Eubank, Benn, Bruno. They would be on every prime time tv show. Most of the population today would struggle to name a boxer today.

You could make the same argument about many sports though. Who can name the (British) 1500m World Athletics Championship winner from 2023? Zharnel Hughes profile today vs Linford Christie back in the 1990s?

[gingerjon]

2 hours ago, JonM said:

You could make the same argument about many sports though. Who can name the (British) 1500m World Athletics Championship winner from 2023? Zharnel Hughes profile today vs Linford Christie back in the 1990s?

My grandad could remember being unable to get into Wembley Stadium because it was sold out.

For speedway.

[gingerjon]

2 hours ago, JonM said:

This point interested me. PDC have quadrupled revenue inside a decade, so you might think there was something interesting happening there. However, it doesn't seem to hold any obvious lessons for RL. They were previously holding events in pubs when they started and only had four things on tv - now they have a proper tour, with events all round the world and use bigger venues, such as the O2. They turned down CVC in 2022, too.

A fixed and promotable calendar.

That would be something but it’s not a PDC lesson so much as common sense.

[Eddie]

Not worthy of its own thread so I’ll stick it here - good to hear Wigan described as Rugby League Country at the start of the Man Utd game.