"On the Road" games coming back?

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

Play the internationals in every stadium you've just earmarked for your on-the-road double headers.

To repeat a truth we learnt the last time round, no need to learn it again: internationals, not club games, are the most efficient way to reach new fans.

For club games, the idea of The Big Match at a bigger than usual local stadium seems a smart one - and also maps onto the RU versions that seem to have worked best.

That would be my preference.

I've already earmarked say Bramley Moor Docks, Etihad and Elland Road as potential venues for these big games. Maybe London and Newcastle based on proximity/accessibility. But this is a club fixture thought and as you say has worked fairly well in Union (and indeed in League see Leeds vs Cas and vs KR in 2018 when Headingley was being rebuilt). Some people are snobbish about it, but clearly there is a massive growth opportunity by doing these events - and if they become formalised then its not just the "home" club hosting and taking the risk.

Any talk of Bristol, Coventry, Cardiff etc should be for Internationals only at this stage.

[sam4731]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Would have been an ideal spot, how much bridges have been burned however I'm not sure.

I'd think Leeds, Saints and Catalans would be the teams most popular in Toronto.

Leeds vs Saints

Toronto Wolfpack vs Toronto City Saints curtain raiser.

[JonM]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Equally, I think there is value for any club in getting a large amount of latent support to 1 big game a year. Only 4 max can make a final each year, for the rest a big event crowd can be years away.

I think this is a good point - although perhaps that maps best to a club like Leeds or Catalans (or dare I say London Broncos) where you have a much bigger stadium on your doorstep and perhaps some actual latent support that might turn up. Leigh trying to tap into Bolton might be interesting.

Generally, when we have done on the road fixtures, there's been no real point to it, or any attempt to follow up. There is no value in randomly playing a Hull game in Middlesbrough or wherever.

I could make the argument for say Warrington playing in Chester, North Wales, Macclesfield etc. but it would only work as part of a multi-year strategy to become a regional team and to get kids outside of Warrington & Halton playing, free travel from those places to certain home games and so on. And all of those things would cost money.

[Tommygilf]

27 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

Leeds vs Saints

Toronto Wolfpack vs Toronto City Saints curtain raiser.

I'd definitely like that

[Tommygilf]

24 minutes ago, JonM said:

I think this is a good point - although perhaps that maps best to a club like Leeds or Catalans (or dare I say London Broncos) where you have a much bigger stadium on your doorstep and perhaps some actual latent support that might turn up. Leigh trying to tap into Bolton might be interesting.

Generally, when we have done on the road fixtures, there's been no real point to it, or any attempt to follow up. There is no value in randomly playing a Hull game in Middlesbrough or wherever.

I could make the argument for say Warrington playing in Chester, North Wales, Macclesfield etc. but it would only work as part of a multi-year strategy to become a regional team and to get kids outside of Warrington & Halton playing, free travel from those places to certain home games and so on. And all of those things would cost money.

Yeah I get that, I still think Manchester and Liverpool offer the Lancastrian clubs opportunities too like Leeds, Catalans, and London, and perhaps also Bolton with Leigh as you describe.

I totally agree, strategy and long term impact has to be at the core of these concepts. Finances are part of that too of course. 

[JonM]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Yeah I get that, I still think Manchester and Liverpool offer the Lancastrian clubs opportunities too like Leeds, Catalans, and London, and perhaps also Bolton with Leigh as you describe.

Seems highly unlikely to me that people in Liverpool would ever support a team from St. Helens.

We have a couple of teams in Manchester and their problem is that they don't have much latent support - Salford getting to the GF hasn't impacted their crowds in any meaningful way. And of course we already have a big occasion there each year. There needs to be a proper strategy for RL in Manchester, but Salford playing a game in a larger venue probably isn't part of it. I could imagine Warrington drawing some support from Irlam, Altrincham commuter belt kind of area, but even that is a stretch.

[Tommygilf]

39 minutes ago, JonM said:

Seems highly unlikely to me that people in Liverpool would ever support a team from St. Helens.

We have a couple of teams in Manchester and their problem is that they don't have much latent support - Salford getting to the GF hasn't impacted their crowds in any meaningful way. And of course we already have a big occasion there each year. There needs to be a proper strategy for RL in Manchester, but Salford playing a game in a larger venue probably isn't part of it. I could imagine Warrington drawing some support from Irlam, Altrincham commuter belt kind of area, but even that is a stretch.

It don't think its that impossible, and regardless, this is about latent support as much as new fans for me.

We have 3 teams in Greater Manchester. I wouldn't include Salford as headliners for a big game there.

[sam4731]

2 hours ago, JonM said:

Seems highly unlikely to me that people in Liverpool would ever support a team from St. Helens.

We have a couple of teams in Manchester and their problem is that they don't have much latent support - Salford getting to the GF hasn't impacted their crowds in any meaningful way. And of course we already have a big occasion there each year. There needs to be a proper strategy for RL in Manchester, but Salford playing a game in a larger venue probably isn't part of it. I could imagine Warrington drawing some support from Irlam, Altrincham commuter belt kind of area, but even that is a stretch.

I think we underestimate the value of having a big place name on a team. Salford is not and never will be a Manchester team, neither are Oldham, Rochdale or Swinton. 

There's a reason why Liverpool has a higher fan base than Everton.

A reason why NFL doesn't have the New Jersey Jets or New Jersey Giants.

And a reason why people don't know a lot about Rugby League.

It's no coincidence that when cricket devised The Hundred, they chose City names rather than county names.

[JonM]

Don't disagree with any of that. There are some exceptions in UK sport, of course, but Arsenal, Aston Villa etc. have 100+ years history behind them.

As for the hundred, city names like Northern, Southern, Oval, Trent & Welsh? Don't see those on my map   If anything, that's an argument for non-geographic names (like Arsenal, Harlequins or whatever). Calling the Northwest hundred team Manchester immediately cut their potential supporter base in half, AFAICT.

 

[JM2010]

If they bring back ‘on the road’ games then they need a strategy for it. Each SL club could be given a city or area to develop the game both at community level and also to widen their fan bases. It might be more beneficial if the these areas aren’t too far away. For example, St Helens and Warrington - Liverpool,  Wigan and Salford -  Manchester, Leigh - Bolton/Preston, Castleford - Sheffield/Barnsley, London stay in London, Hull KR - Newcastle, Hull - Middlesbrough - Teeside. Not sure about Hudds and Leeds, maybe Birmingham and Nottingham 

 

[whatmichaelsays]

On 22/02/2024 at 15:08, Tommygilf said:

A few examples might be Saints vs Warrington at New Everton, or Wigan vs Saints or Leeds at the Etihad, Leeds vs Cas at Elland Road. I know Wigan did take a game to Millwall recently, but that appeared to be out of necessity rather than a concerted vision and plan. Catalans at Barcelona seems to make sense too. 

I'm not sure that there's a real material benefit to Leeds taking games to Elland Road.

As a venue, it only really appeals to people already within the club's catchment area and, whilst I accept that you can sell Elland Road as a "big game" type event, I suspect that even a sold-out Elland Road generates less revenue for the Rhinos than a typical game at Headingley when you take into account the value and volume of hospitality that goes through Headingley on a matchday (which would be lost to Leeds United). 

Not against taking Leeds games to bigger venues in the slightest, but I don't think Elland Road is commercially the right option. 

[gingerjon]

2 hours ago, sam4731 said:

There's a reason why Liverpool has a higher fan base than Everton.

Is it the same reason why Aston Villa are a bigger club than Birmingham City?

[mrfranco]

6 hours ago, sam4731 said:

Leeds vs Saints

Toronto Wolfpack vs Toronto City Saints curtain raiser.

If you were gonna move a home game, surely it would be one where Catalans are the visitors, especially if the suggestion about Cats being one of the more popular teams in Toronto were true

 

[N2022]

3 hours ago, sam4731 said:

I think we underestimate the value of having a big place name on a team. Salford is not and never will be a Manchester team, neither are Oldham, Rochdale or Swinton. 

There's a reason why Liverpool has a higher fan base than Everton.

A reason why NFL doesn't have the New Jersey Jets or New Jersey Giants.

And a reason why people don't know a lot about Rugby League.

It's no coincidence that when cricket devised The Hundred, they chose City names rather than county names.

Fair points, except people follow Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs, not London Utd, London Rangers and London City. And The Hundred teams are city-based but only 3 of the 8 are named after the city they play in.

[JM2010]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Is it the same reason why Aston Villa are a bigger club than Birmingham City?

Success??

[longboard]

12 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Doubt Huddersfield needed much persuasion given it prevented them from being relegated and they got £1m in to the bargain. 

Your doubt, or otherwise, it was done under duress, with a threat from Magic Maurice that if Hudds were prepared to be relegated, rather than agree to the 'merger', they would not be allowed back into Superleague no matter if they won the subsequent season's  second tier competition, or the ones after that. You may, or may not, recall this course of events.

[Styx]

Funny how most suggestions are for towns and cities in the North yet again...

[Tommygilf]

17 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I'm not sure that there's a real material benefit to Leeds taking games to Elland Road.

As a venue, it only really appeals to people already within the club's catchment area and, whilst I accept that you can sell Elland Road as a "big game" type event, I suspect that even a sold-out Elland Road generates less revenue for the Rhinos than a typical game at Headingley when you take into account the value and volume of hospitality that goes through Headingley on a matchday (which would be lost to Leeds United). 

Not against taking Leeds games to bigger venues in the slightest, but I don't think Elland Road is commercially the right option. 

I'd compare with our WCC matches at Elland Road. Lots of casual fans were created through those times. 

Equally, what is to say that it couldn't be a joint venture between say Leeds and Cas to host. To some extent it is a loss leader potentially, but we aren't filling Headingley for these games in the way we seem to exceed Headingley's capacity with matches at Elland Road.

This is an equivalent of Quins at Twickenham rather than the stoop or Saracens at Spurs. There isn't another option for Leeds imo.

[Tommygilf]

11 minutes ago, Styx said:

Funny how most suggestions are for towns and cities in the North yet again...

I think London could make sense. "Capital Challenge" or something between 2 big clubs maybe.

Most other places would benefit far more from international matches than a Super League game.

[sam4731]

2 hours ago, Styx said:

Funny how most suggestions are for towns and cities in the North yet again...

Don't get me wrong, I've always said that the fact that Magic has never been in London is criminal. The London Stadium seems such an obvious choice for Magic, it's astounding that it's never been picked. I'm happy to be told that the cons outweigh the pros but I just can't see it.

[RP London]

 

On 23/02/2024 at 08:23, Leyther_Matt said:

Doubt Huddersfield needed much persuasion given it prevented them from being relegated and they got £1m in to the bargain. 

They also kept their team rather than losing it and having to fight to get readmittance... 

 

[RP London]

On 23/02/2024 at 20:41, longboard said:

Your doubt, or otherwise, it was done under duress, with a threat from Magic Maurice that if Hudds were prepared to be relegated, rather than agree to the 'merger', they would not be allowed back into Superleague no matter if they won the subsequent season's  second tier competition, or the ones after that. You may, or may not, recall this course of events.

my heart bleeds.. after 2 seasons finishing dead last you're "threatened" with relegation or being given £1m to "merge" with Sheffield and play all but 2 games in Huddersfield... tough one that!

They needed to drop from 14 clubs to 12 but for some reason thats beyond me they were desperate for Huddersfield not to get relegated even though they were dead last for 2 years running.. this was their solution and with a £1m bonus to boot.. Huddersfield should have been relegated its as simple as that to be fair, there was no "duress" they were threatened with what they had deserved for 2 years of being the worst team in the league but not being relegated.. 

but this is a massive derailment and been done to death.

[Damien]

13 minutes ago, RP London said:

my heart bleeds.. after 2 seasons finishing dead last you're "threatened" with relegation or being given £1m to "merge" with Sheffield and play all but 2 games in Huddersfield... tough one that!

They needed to drop from 14 clubs to 12 but for some reason thats beyond me they were desperate for Huddersfield not to get relegated even though they were dead last for 2 years running.. this was their solution and with a £1m bonus to boot.. Huddersfield should have been relegated its as simple as that to be fair, there was no "duress" they were threatened with what they had deserved for 2 years of being the worst team in the league but not being relegated.. 

but this is a massive derailment and been done to death.

Huddersfield had a nice stadium. I'm not sure there was much more to it than that.

[yipyee]

On 21/02/2024 at 08:31, sam4731 said:

I'd welcome each team taking a home game on the road, with a split which rotates each year.

Current SL teams:

Castleford - Bramall Lane

Huddersfield- Hillsborough

Leeds- Elland Road

St Helens- Anfield

Wigan- Etihad

Warrington- Everton New Ground

Catalans- Paris

Salford- Bolton Stadium

London- Craven Cottage

Leigh- Stoke Stadium

Hull FC- Riverside Stadium

Hull KR- Stadium of Light

 

None in the Midlands or south west ?

Salford in Bolton is a bit mad, don't people bolton way support wigan , thinking Westhoughton here

What about Cumbria, Wales is also a good target

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, yipyee said:

None in the Midlands or south west ?

Salford in Bolton is a bit mad, don't people bolton way support wigan , thinking Westhoughton here

What about Cumbria, Wales is also a good target

The Midlands and SW are a difficult one imo. None are local and big event destinations.

As for Cumbria, for the same reason there isn't a Super League team there, there isn't a venue to match other than maybe Brunton Park. That would stand out compared to the other examples though.