Top 3 or 4 SL clubs match NRL quality says Cleary

[Gerrumonside ref]

Nathan Cleary is quoted in the Guardian today as saying that he believes the top 3/4 Super League teams are a match in quality to the NRL.

He’s also really excited about playing Wigan away and that Penrith were ‘psyched’ when they heard it was sold out.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/feb/23/nathan-cleary-interview-penrith-panthers-rugby-league-world-club-challenge

Given what he’s saying are we creeping any closer to a kind of shortened (8 team in total) Champions League type tournament of northern and southern hemisphere club rugby league?

 

 

[Coggo]

4 is pushing it. Saints and Wigan are NRL quality, maybe Catalans too.  

[Human Punk]

Well that's big of him. Twit. Hope the Pies sort his lot out big time on Saturday.

Edited February 23 by Human Punk

[NRLandSL]

1 hour ago, Coggo said:

4 is pushing it. Saints and Wigan are NRL quality, maybe Catalans too.  

Define “NRL quality”. Saints and Wigan would be some of the best teams in the NRL if they played in aus, and there’s a few other teams that would have alright seasons.

London, Castleford and Hull would really be the only teams that wouldn’t be somewhat competitive in the NRL.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

This is tired debate that we'll never truly know the answer to, but in my mind it's pretty simple. The top SL clubs have proven they can compete with NRL teams in one-off games. How that translates across a whole season is the question - think Celtic and Rangers joining the Premier League. IMO - the top 4 SL sides would finish somewhere between 6th and 17th. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

If the top 4 of SL can compete it’s a pity a Champions League style equivalent tournament couldn’t be organised with top 4 NRL.

[nkpom]

It was - in 1997 didn't go too well for the Brits!

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, NRLandSL said:

Define “NRL quality”. Saints and Wigan would be some of the best teams in the NRL if they played in aus, and there’s a few other teams that would have alright seasons.

London, Castleford and Hull would really be the only teams that wouldn’t be somewhat competitive in the NRL.

You think Salford and Huddersfield would be? 

[Worzel]

3 hours ago, Coggo said:

4 is pushing it. Saints and Wigan are NRL quality, maybe Catalans too.  

Yes agree. Those 3 could compete. Nobody else. 

[sam4731]

47 minutes ago, nkpom said:

It was - in 1997 didn't go too well for the Brits!

All SL and NRL teams in one competition was a mistake. Having 3 or 4 from each comp in a 3 week tournament is more viable.

I would personally have 3 from each country. Both champions get a bye to the semis and other teams fight for the other 2 spots.

[N2022]

1 hour ago, sam4731 said:

All SL and NRL teams in one competition was a mistake. Having 3 or 4 from each comp in a 3 week tournament is more viable.

I would personally have 3 from each country. Both champions get a bye to the semis and other teams fight for the other 2 spots.

Could be good. Or if that's too long, just winners from one league play runners-up from other as semi-finals. 

[N2022]

Trying to work out where this equivalence fits into our (England's) repeated failure to beat Aus, as you'd have thought top 3 sides would provide a chunk of the starting line-up and it would be pretty even. Is it relative reliance of those top 3 sides on overseas players? Or just squad depth from the rest of the league? More consistency of opposition for top players from games v bottom half of league? Origin as further high-end competition? Something in mentality? 

[NRLandSL]

6 hours ago, Eddie said:

You think Salford and Huddersfield would be? 

This is what I reckon for each side.

Saints, Wigan - Top 4 Quality 

Warrington, Catalans- 7-9

Hull KR, Leeds- 10-13

Salford, Huddersfield, Leigh- 15-17

Hull, London, Castleford- Dead Last

Edited February 23 by NRLandSL

[AB90]

My thoughts for each side:

Wigan, Saints - 7th to 12th

Warrington, Catalans - 13th 17th

Hull KR, Leeds - 15th to 17th

Salford, Huddersfield, Leigh, Hull, London, Castleford - All dead last by a mile

 

 

Edited February 23 by AB90

[MZH]

Well the last time I saw a SL side play an NRL side we saw a team that many in Australia have proclaimed as one of the best ever get turned over in their back yard, and they were lucky that it ended up being close. If Penrith win tomorrow then maybe they can have the luxury of saying who they think could and couldn't compete with them. Until then they should keep their thoughts to themselves.

I hope Wigan tear them apart.

[NRLandSL]

1 hour ago, AB90 said:

My thoughts for each side:

Wigan, Saints - 7th to 12th

Warrington, Catalans - 13th 17th

Hull KR, Leeds - 15th to 17th

Salford, Huddersfield, Leigh, Hull, London, Castleford - All dead last by a mile

 

 

In what world are St Helens finishing 7-12th.

Ask any player on that Penrith team and they will firmly tell you St Helens are one of the best teams in the world, if not the best.

[Click]

I think a lot of SL sides would surprise the NRL teams if they had a full year training in Aus, in NRL standard ways. 

We have seen some plays like Cooper who wasn't exactly ripping things up, go to the NRL, get fitter, etc and then he was a different player. 

I don't believe the quality of the equipment that most clubs in SL use would get close to what they use in all NRL teams. I am sure there are some teams like Wigan, St Helens & Leeds that may have good equipment, etc. But they won't be putting the money in like the NRL clubs do. 

[Hopie]

In this hypothetical are SL teams getting an NRL budget, if so they could have a chance?

If not then the way SL squads are now so thin they would have to be very lucky to get a run of games going. Think how often we have academy players playing because of injuries/suspensions who look out of their depth in Super League. Against the best of the NRL they would get physically dominated, and any players who did look good would be signed up by higher paying employers. As the salary cap has fallen further and further behind its not really a surprise to see the drop off in quality here.

[AB90]

4 hours ago, NRLandSL said:

In what world are St Helens finishing 7-12th.

Ask any player on that Penrith team and they will firmly tell you St Helens are one of the best teams in the world, if not the best.

I thought I was giving Saints & Wigan a huge compliment by saying they would finish 7th to 12th considering they spend less than half the money on player wages than the worse NRL club!

If you objectively look at it player for player, position vs position, talent vs talent (which I feel your not doing) then I think that’s pretty accurate.

This was the full strength Wigan side that won SL in 2023 in order of position- Field, Miski, King, Wardle, Marshall, French, Smith, Byrne, Powell, Ellis, Isa, Farrell, Smithies (Subs: Dupree, Mago, Pearce-Paul, O’Neill)

Now this was the full strength 2023 Parramatta Eels team that came 10th in the NRL in 2023 - Gutherson, Sivo, Simonsson, Penisini, Blake, Brown, Moses, Paulo, Lussick, Campbell-Gillard, Matterson, Lane, Hopgood (Subs: Ofahengaou, Greig, Cartwright, Hands)

Now are we 100% certain that the 2023 Wigan side is more talented than this Eels team? If you think they they are ‘top 4 quality’ then it should be a no contest.

In my opinion from a talent perspective, the 2023 Eels player for player are stronger with the only positions Wigan have the Eels beat is Centre & Hooker and maybe Full Back. Eels are superior in the Middles, Edge Back Rowers, Halves & Wingers.

If you can’t say that 2023 Wigan team are easily better than this 2023 Eels team then I struggle to see how they can be considered ‘too 4 quality’. Melbourne Storm are tipped to finish 5th in 2024 as per the bookies so you are ranking Wigan & Saints above the Storm. 

[AB90]

3 hours ago, Hopie said:

In this hypothetical are SL teams getting an NRL budget, if so they could have a chance?

If not then the way SL squads are now so thin they would have to be very lucky to get a run of games going. Think how often we have academy players playing because of injuries/suspensions who look out of their depth in Super League. Against the best of the NRL they would get physically dominated, and any players who did look good would be signed up by higher paying employers. As the salary cap has fallen further and further behind its not really a surprise to see the drop off in quality here.

If SL teams had an NRL budget (£6.4m) then the teams would look nothing like what they look like now!

That a good point you make. When making these hypothetical comparisons people generally just look at the starting 13 or 17 man, strongest line ups. Generally speaking, SL clubs depth is made up of young kids under the age of 21 who wouldn’t be anywhere near ready for 1st grade NRL. Depth is the biggest difference between the two competitions 

[bobbruce]

2 hours ago, AB90 said:

If SL teams had an NRL budget (£6.4m) then the teams would look nothing like what they look like now!

That a good point you make. When making these hypothetical comparisons people generally just look at the starting 13 or 17 man, strongest line ups. Generally speaking, SL clubs depth is made up of young kids under the age of 21 who wouldn’t be anywhere near ready for 1st grade NRL. Depth is the biggest difference between the two competitions 

Which is why in a one off game SL teams can be competitive but I don’t think that would transfer to a full season. 

[yipyee]

7 hours ago, Click said:

I think a lot of SL sides would surprise the NRL teams if they had a full year training in Aus, in NRL standard ways. 

We have seen some plays like Cooper who wasn't exactly ripping things up, go to the NRL, get fitter, etc and then he was a different player. 

I don't believe the quality of the equipment that most clubs in SL use would get close to what they use in all NRL teams. I am sure there are some teams like Wigan, St Helens & Leeds that may have good equipment, etc. But they won't be putting the money in like the NRL clubs do. 

So do you bench money? Strange comment, Wigan saints Leeds have good equipment but nrl have a bit more money 

 

[yipyee]

44 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Which is why in a one off game SL teams can be competitive but I don’t think that would transfer to a full season. 

Saints won 2 games in Aus last year and would have beaten both at home.

Keep dreaming ..

[Click]

5 hours ago, yipyee said:

So do you bench money? Strange comment, Wigan saints Leeds have good equipment but nrl have a bit more money 

 

"a bit more money" is understating it quite a lot.

[DavidM]

There are some average teams in the NRL to , I support one