Newcastle

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

19 hours ago, dkw said:

Only 1 west Cumbrian played for whitehaven today, that's unbelievable. I expect it's down to injuries as well, but I doubt it's ever been that low for either us or them in out entire existence 

I raised this a couple of weeks ago that there wasn’t the quality locally to sustain 2 pro sides.

i genuinely believe talks will have to start shortly between both pro and the amateur clubs to try and develop a strategy/pathway for rugby in west Cumbria.

The RFL aren’t going to help, sure they would sit back and watch both pro clubs vanish

[Neutralfan7]

44 minutes ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

I raised this a couple of weeks ago that there wasn’t the quality locally to sustain 2 pro sides.

i genuinely believe talks will have to start shortly between both pro and the amateur clubs to try and develop a strategy/pathway for rugby in west Cumbria.

The RFL aren’t going to help, sure they would sit back and watch both pro clubs vanish

At the risk of being shot , if hypothetically there ever was just the one merged club, I think if they brought back the scholarship system both clubs had years ago it would be a massive benefit to the club.

[Haven 123]

It’s just been proven we have the best U18s team in the country and nowhere for them to go to progress in a professional environment, summat has to give or Town, Haven & Barrow won’t be around in a couple of years. 

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

10 hours ago, Neutralfan7 said:

At the risk of being shot , if hypothetically there ever was just the one merged club, I think if they brought back the scholarship system both clubs had years ago it would be a massive benefit to the club.

The problems facing all Cumbrian clubs runs deeper than just starting up a scholarship scheme again.

Town, Haven, and to an extent, Barrow are 15-20 years and many millions behind the clubs in the Super League catchment area.

Look how long it’s taken Leigh and Salford to establish themselves as top division sides.

the Dewsburys, Batleys, Swinton and Oldhams etc, might have similar (and in some cases worse) infrastructure than our local pro clubs but they still benefit indirectly from the academy set ups at Saints, Wigan, Leeds, Hull etc, as they get second dibs on the players not deemed good enough for their super league sides are are also able to get quality loan players on a regular basis .

Yes Hensingham have a great U18 side which might produce 3-4 players good enough to play professionally, but those players aren’t ready for the step up just yet and that’s 4 players out of a Cumbrian player pool of maybe 150 at that age?? 

The entire Cumbrian game from youth through to open age needs unpicking and reevaluating. That can only be done with the cooperation and the willingness of the local league management, the amateur clubs and the pro clubs.

the problem in the Cumbrian amateur game is that its fractious, the league management at youth especially are happy to plod on as they have done for the last 30 years and the majority of clubs are only interested in their playing strength today and have little interest in pushing their better players towards the pro game.

it would need a real concerted effort from all sides to develop the game which could eventually lead to improved fortunes for our professional sides.

The local amateur game on the whole hasn’t suffered decline as bad as the more traditional areas, in the last 20 years I think there’s Broughton Red Rose, Clifton, Salterbeck and Westfield who have folded, which percentage wise is less than the RL heartlands who have lost full divisions of teams.

But look again…., that’s 3 teams folded out of Workington, so why’s that? how is it that there’s not enough interest in RL in Workington to get 17 lads to play socially on a Saturday ?

Workington is roughly the same size as Whitehaven who have both Hensingham and Kells with teams at all ages, consistently churning out top players good enough to play Super League.

compare that to Workington, which only has one club in Seaton, one of the biggest villages in the UK, putting out 1 open age side plus their youth.

Maryport is a third the size of Workington but has 2 open age sides at the min, hopefully 3 next season if Glasson can make a return.

in the last 30 years how many players from what was Allerdale have gone on to play in super league?

Tee Riston, Brandon Moore played a handful of games for Huddersfield, but how many more can you name?

I don’t know what the answers are, but there’s something badly wrong with the game as a whole in Cumbria and the pro clubs can’t fix it on their own as they are the top of the tree and it’s the roots that need fixed before the tree can blossom once again.

Directors at all the Cumbrian pro clubs are doing their best to keep the game alive but without help from the rest of the game In Cumbria they are fighting a losing battle.

Edited July 9 by Death to the Rah Rah's

[Cumberland Sausage]

The only 2 I could add to that list at the moment would be Ian Scott ( Leeds ) and Martin Oglanby (Town)

[Onreport]

31 minutes ago, Cumberland Sausage said:

The only 2 I could add to that list at the moment would be Ian Scott ( Leeds ) and Martin Oglanby (Town)

Shaun Lunt also

Edited July 9 by Onreport

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

40 minutes ago, Cumberland Sausage said:

The only 2 I could add to that list at the moment would be Ian Scott ( Leeds ) and Martin Oglanby (Town)

I think those 2 retired the year before superleague but both played in the Big League (Div 1) for Town, also Maryport lads like Tee and Brandon 

[JMB]

11 hours ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

The problems facing all Cumbrian clubs runs deeper than just starting up a scholarship scheme again.

Town, Haven, and to an extent, Barrow are 15-20 years and many millions behind the clubs in the Super League catchment area.

Look how long it’s taken Leigh and Salford to establish themselves as top division sides.

the Dewsburys, Batleys, Swinton and Oldhams etc, might have similar (and in some cases worse) infrastructure than our local pro clubs but they still benefit indirectly from the academy set ups at Saints, Wigan, Leeds, Hull etc, as they get second dibs on the players not deemed good enough for their super league sides are are also able to get quality loan players on a regular basis .

Yes Hensingham have a great U18 side which might produce 3-4 players good enough to play professionally, but those players aren’t ready for the step up just yet and that’s 4 players out of a Cumbrian player pool of maybe 150 at that age?? 

The entire Cumbrian game from youth through to open age needs unpicking and reevaluating. That can only be done with the cooperation and the willingness of the local league management, the amateur clubs and the pro clubs.

the problem in the Cumbrian amateur game is that its fractious, the league management at youth especially are happy to plod on as they have done for the last 30 years and the majority of clubs are only interested in their playing strength today and have little interest in pushing their better players towards the pro game.

it would need a real concerted effort from all sides to develop the game which could eventually lead to improved fortunes for our professional sides.

The local amateur game on the whole hasn’t suffered decline as bad as the more traditional areas, in the last 20 years I think there’s Broughton Red Rose, Clifton, Salterbeck and Westfield who have folded, which percentage wise is less than the RL heartlands who have lost full divisions of teams.

But look again…., that’s 3 teams folded out of Workington, so why’s that? how is it that there’s not enough interest in RL in Workington to get 17 lads to play socially on a Saturday ?

Workington is roughly the same size as Whitehaven who have both Hensingham and Kells with teams at all ages, consistently churning out top players good enough to play Super League.

compare that to Workington, which only has one club in Seaton, one of the biggest villages in the UK, putting out 1 open age side plus their youth.

Maryport is a third the size of Workington but has 2 open age sides at the min, hopefully 3 next season if Glasson can make a return.

in the last 30 years how many players from what was Allerdale have gone on to play in super league?

Tee Riston, Brandon Moore played a handful of games for Huddersfield, but how many more can you name?

I don’t know what the answers are, but there’s something badly wrong with the game as a whole in Cumbria and the pro clubs can’t fix it on their own as they are the top of the tree and it’s the roots that need fixed before the tree can blossom once again.

Directors at all the Cumbrian pro clubs are doing their best to keep the game alive but without help from the rest of the game In Cumbria they are fighting a losing battle.

So true, so is it now time for one semi-pro club in West Cumbria.

 

[JMB]

19 hours ago, Haven 123 said:

It’s just been proven we have the best U18s team in the country and nowhere for them to go to progress in a professional environment, summat has to give or Town, Haven & Barrow won’t be around in a couple of years. 

Barrow will be around, don't worry about them, they have a good pathway from the amateur clubs.

[pmac]

The amateur clubs down that way have been struggling too, Walney has no open-age teams now.

[donald]

1 hour ago, JMB said:

Barrow will be around, don't worry about them, they have a good pathway from the amateur clubs.

Barrow will always be ok the towns bigger than whitehaven and workington put together and is the only major town in that part of the county giving it free pickings of all the local lads and more locals down that way seem more keen to progress as semi pro's.  The better local players up here seem a lot more hesitant to make the step up

[Gillmeister80]

15 hours ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

The problems facing all Cumbrian clubs runs deeper than just starting up a scholarship scheme again.

Town, Haven, and to an extent, Barrow are 15-20 years and many millions behind the clubs in the Super League catchment area.

Look how long it’s taken Leigh and Salford to establish themselves as top division sides.

the Dewsburys, Batleys, Swinton and Oldhams etc, might have similar (and in some cases worse) infrastructure than our local pro clubs but they still benefit indirectly from the academy set ups at Saints, Wigan, Leeds, Hull etc, as they get second dibs on the players not deemed good enough for their super league sides are are also able to get quality loan players on a regular basis .

Yes Hensingham have a great U18 side which might produce 3-4 players good enough to play professionally, but those players aren’t ready for the step up just yet and that’s 4 players out of a Cumbrian player pool of maybe 150 at that age?? 

The entire Cumbrian game from youth through to open age needs unpicking and reevaluating. That can only be done with the cooperation and the willingness of the local league management, the amateur clubs and the pro clubs.

the problem in the Cumbrian amateur game is that its fractious, the league management at youth especially are happy to plod on as they have done for the last 30 years and the majority of clubs are only interested in their playing strength today and have little interest in pushing their better players towards the pro game.

it would need a real concerted effort from all sides to develop the game which could eventually lead to improved fortunes for our professional sides.

The local amateur game on the whole hasn’t suffered decline as bad as the more traditional areas, in the last 20 years I think there’s Broughton Red Rose, Clifton, Salterbeck and Westfield who have folded, which percentage wise is less than the RL heartlands who have lost full divisions of teams.

But look again…., that’s 3 teams folded out of Workington, so why’s that? how is it that there’s not enough interest in RL in Workington to get 17 lads to play socially on a Saturday ?

Workington is roughly the same size as Whitehaven who have both Hensingham and Kells with teams at all ages, consistently churning out top players good enough to play Super League.

compare that to Workington, which only has one club in Seaton, one of the biggest villages in the UK, putting out 1 open age side plus their youth.

Maryport is a third the size of Workington but has 2 open age sides at the min, hopefully 3 next season if Glasson can make a return.

in the last 30 years how many players from what was Allerdale have gone on to play in super league?

Tee Riston, Brandon Moore played a handful of games for Huddersfield, but how many more can you name?

I don’t know what the answers are, but there’s something badly wrong with the game as a whole in Cumbria and the pro clubs can’t fix it on their own as they are the top of the tree and it’s the roots that need fixed before the tree can blossom once again.

Directors at all the Cumbrian pro clubs are doing their best to keep the game alive but without help from the rest of the game In Cumbria they are fighting a losing battle.

Connor Fitz played a couple for Cas. Our areas biggest success is Jamie Blamire but his achievements have been in union 

agree with everything you’ve written! 

[Hate the rec]

On another note heard on the sellafield rumour mill haven have received £98 grand from a sponsor( don't know how true tho ) good money that 

[donald]

15 minutes ago, Hate the rec said:

On another note heard on the sellafield rumour mill haven have received £98 grand from a sponsor( don't know how true tho ) good money that 

Bounty competitions that's the amount he's paid since he started sponsoring us . Pays so much a month not sure how much

[dkw]

58 minutes ago, Hate the rec said:

On another note heard on the sellafield rumour mill haven have received £98 grand from a sponsor( don't know how true tho ) good money that 

There's a rumour they needed a whip round to pay for the bus to fev last week. Down to 2 directors now, 3 resigned over the past few weeks, one said this "Far too many people down there think they are bigger than the club and if things don’t change drastically, sadly the gates will close."

[Gillmeister80]

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

There's a rumour they needed a whip round to pay for the bus to fev last week. Down to 2 directors now, 3 resigned over the past few weeks, one said this "Far too many people down there think they are bigger than the club and if things don’t change drastically, sadly the gates will close."

Town have 3? Barrow and Haven 2 each??

it’s worrying that so few people are trying to keep all the Cumbrian clubs alive, and that extends to the amateur game where leagues and clubs are running on barebones of volunteers 

[Barry Earl]

We have 4 Directors and myself as Company Secretary 

I try to help them as much as possible and have nothing but admiration for the work they all do

A privilege to follow Joe Aitcheson as Company Secretary Joe gave 40 years service and retired rather than resigned

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

3 hours ago, Barry Earl said:

We have 4 Directors and myself as Company Secretary 

I try to help them as much as possible and have nothing but admiration for the work they all do

A privilege to follow Joe Aitcheson as Company Secretary Joe gave 40 years service and retired rather than resigned

You all do a tremendous job Barry, I really do salute you guys and all the others working silently in the background to keep the club afloat.

i haven’t been to watch Whitehaven this season, but by all accounts their crowds are on a level pegging if not slightly smaller than what passes through the turnstiles at Town. That makes it unsustainable and borderline insolvent in the long term.

When we examine the local amateur scene that becomes even more ludicrous. We have the local open age CARL league currently being ran by 2 people as they can’t get any volunteers from clubs to go on the committee.

we have the junior sections at the CARL clubs which are managed by West Cumbria Youth, which is a completely different management panel to the open age (but managing the same clubs)

then you have the NCL clubs who come under the NCL management.

so that means some clubs are being looked after by 3 different management boards, all operating on slightly different local rules ….madness!! 

….and Barrow & District also have their local league management which is split between youth and open age!

Add into that BARLA who are still an organisation but nobody actually knows why or what they do, plus the RFL community board who are supposed to look after the interests of the community game, but again, what do they do and what’s their purpose - it’s no wonder the game is in a mess.

I’m not for one minute knocking the people who are running any of these leagues, as without them there wouldn’t be any rugby in west Cumbria, I’m merely highlighting the current set-ups to those Town supporters who don’t understand how rugby is structured within the county and the need for a strategic review.

IF a smaller local review could be undertaken as a viability study, then it might be possible to get the RFL to allocate a member of their paid staff to work alongside the review panel to collate all the information and write a more detailed in-depth report as they will have all the participation figures for the community game.

That in-depth report would then be used as a the starting point to discuss drawing up a 5 or 10 year plan for rugby league in west Cumbria.

Those are my suggestions, feel free to add and I would be interested to hear the views of the Whitehaven supporters who regularly visit this site 

 

[Hate the rec]

7 hours ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

You all do a tremendous job Barry, I really do salute you guys and all the others working silently in the background to keep the club afloat.

i haven’t been to watch Whitehaven this season, but by all accounts their crowds are on a level pegging if not slightly smaller than what passes through the turnstiles at Town. That makes it unsustainable and borderline insolvent in the long term.

When we examine the local amateur scene that becomes even more ludicrous. We have the local open age CARL league currently being ran by 2 people as they can’t get any volunteers from clubs to go on the committee.

we have the junior sections at the CARL clubs which are managed by West Cumbria Youth, which is a completely different management panel to the open age (but managing the same clubs)

then you have the NCL clubs who come under the NCL management.

so that means some clubs are being looked after by 3 different management boards, all operating on slightly different local rules ….madness!! 

….and Barrow & District also have their local league management which is split between youth and open age!

Add into that BARLA who are still an organisation but nobody actually knows why or what they do, plus the RFL community board who are supposed to look after the interests of the community game, but again, what do they do and what’s their purpose - it’s no wonder the game is in a mess.

I’m not for one minute knocking the people who are running any of these leagues, as without them there wouldn’t be any rugby in west Cumbria, I’m merely highlighting the current set-ups to those Town supporters who don’t understand how rugby is structured within the county and the need for a strategic review.

IF a smaller local review could be undertaken as a viability study, then it might be possible to get the RFL to allocate a member of their paid staff to work alongside the review panel to collate all the information and write a more detailed in-depth report as they will have all the participation figures for the community game.

That in-depth report would then be used as a the starting point to discuss drawing up a 5 or 10 year plan for rugby league in west Cumbria.

Those are my suggestions, feel free to add and I would be interested to hear the views of the Whitehaven supporters who regularly visit this site 

 

Good post , isn't Daisy (sorry forgot his name ) still employed by the RFL as a development officer for this area or has that post gone ?

[CowHouse]

Fantastic posts here. I agree, the people in charge of RL in Cumbria do next to nothing. They rely on goodwill of coaches and clubs to keep things going year after year.

Primary RL – U6s – U9s numbers are at record levels then there is an alarming drop off, which gets worse through the age groups. They have the foundations here to grow the game, I’d love to see a long-term plan which builds from this.

The most frustrating thing is how those at Cumbria Rugby, some who get paid a salary, do so little to promote the game. Apart from pushing coaching courses and signing up players which generates revenue for the RFL they have very few ideas.

It is the same old story every year. Alarm bells were there - Local clubs such as Hensingham, WBH, Kells etc…. have to enter national youth leagues as a result.

The recent revival of the U18s league shows that it can be done, sponsorship is usually available and this is a success story – but where does it go from here?

The area is fortunate that there are lots of talented local coaches available in West Cumbria. I am sure people involved with ARL could easily name 3 or 4 from their club alone. What these coaches need now is structure in place to allow the game to grow.

For example, district teams, representative teams, Cumbria teams could be running from ages as young as U8s/9s. Teams could be found to play these from Barrow, Yorkshire and Lancashire. It is a model Workington Reds do very well. Ideally the teams would have some prestige, this could be done by having kits / training tops and some positive coverage on social media.

I am sure that the coaches would be available to do this. Most coaches at youth level have family attachments to their teams, which would help drive the idea.

It just needs pulling together from the top. It would be great publicity for the game, no doubt the stories would be shared in schools, social media all around the area.

These rep teams could then start to form a pathway into the semi pro game – this is where the two local pro sides would need to get together and work something out. At the moment their excuse is the players are not there - Hensingham recent success shows that this is just a lazy excuse not to try anything. 

In a couple of years if you had a strong Cumbria U15/16 team this excuse would not work. They would have a nucleus of a strong competitive team. Players would still be involved with their local clubs, which is often a sticking point as many don't want to go outside of their comfort zone.

[homeandawayer]

Well I know Graeme Peers reads these posts and the best way to find out what works and what doesn't is from people like you who are involved in it, so hopefully he can take your comments on board.

[gillmeister]

1 hour ago, Hate the rec said:

Good post , isn't Daisy (sorry forgot his name ) still employed by the RFL as a development officer for this area or has that post gone ?

He is still an employee of the RFL but is national talent manager I believe with his remit being the England community Lions teams, sadly we no longer have a dedicated development officer in the area which is a far cry from when we had 3 doing development, and a referees development officer

[gillmeister]

1 hour ago, CowHouse said:

Fantastic posts here. I agree, the people in charge of RL in Cumbria do next to nothing. They rely on goodwill of coaches and clubs to keep things going year after year.

Primary RL – U6s – U9s numbers are at record levels then there is an alarming drop off, which gets worse through the age groups. They have the foundations here to grow the game, I’d love to see a long-term plan which builds from this.

The most frustrating thing is how those at Cumbria Rugby, some who get paid a salary, do so little to promote the game. Apart from pushing coaching courses and signing up players which generates revenue for the RFL they have very few ideas.

It is the same old story every year. Alarm bells were there - Local clubs such as Hensingham, WBH, Kells etc…. have to enter national youth leagues as a result.

The recent revival of the U18s league shows that it can be done, sponsorship is usually available and this is a success story – but where does it go from here?

The area is fortunate that there are lots of talented local coaches available in West Cumbria. I am sure people involved with ARL could easily name 3 or 4 from their club alone. What these coaches need now is structure in place to allow the game to grow.

For example, district teams, representative teams, Cumbria teams could be running from ages as young as U8s/9s. Teams could be found to play these from Barrow, Yorkshire and Lancashire. It is a model Workington Reds do very well. Ideally the teams would have some prestige, this could be done by having kits / training tops and some positive coverage on social media.

I am sure that the coaches would be available to do this. Most coaches at youth level have family attachments to their teams, which would help drive the idea.

It just needs pulling together from the top. It would be great publicity for the game, no doubt the stories would be shared in schools, social media all around the area.

These rep teams could then start to form a pathway into the semi pro game – this is where the two local pro sides would need to get together and work something out. At the moment their excuse is the players are not there - Hensingham recent success shows that this is just a lazy excuse not to try anything. 

In a couple of years if you had a strong Cumbria U15/16 team this excuse would not work. They would have a nucleus of a strong competitive team. Players would still be involved with their local clubs, which is often a sticking point as many don't want to go outside of their comfort zone.

A lot of great things in your post sadly constraints apply from above. The RFL wont entertain the idea of town teams this year we have a West Cumbria v Barrow origin at under 14s and under 16s anything outside of that concept is a non starter through circumstances beyond local control. The 18s has been a breath of fresh air but this year its worked because finally the clubs supported it and in years gone by when it was attempted to be set up it simply didnt have the clubs support

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

2 hours ago, CowHouse said:

Fantastic posts here. I agree, the people in charge of RL in Cumbria do next to nothing. They rely on goodwill of coaches and clubs to keep things going year after year.

Wow hang on a minute, at no point have I said the people in charge of Cumbrian RL do next to nothing, there wouldn’t be any Cumbrian RL without those people volunteering to go on the various management groups.

what I’ve said is the game needs reevaluated, and from that create a cumbria wide strategy to develop the game in the county.

that can only be done with cooperation from all parts of the game or it will continue on its slow downward trajectory.

[CowHouse]

Fantastic to hear about the West Cumbria v Barrow concepts, hopefully a great success and marketed well. Could Town do a training session with the team to help raise the profile. Such a shame that is where it will stop, the whole concept is surely crying out for a Cumbria team to be selected after it. 

The local game is crying out for a bit of improvisation by the RFL / Cumbria Amateur Rugby League. 

Apart from attending junior Cumbria Cup finals there presence and communication is non existent, especially primary rugby where festivals run weekly with well over 250 players. This area at junior level is doing really well, it just needs a bit of innovation from the top to really take it to the next level. 

Look at Derwent Park Rangers, very early days but all volunteers involved with the club should be applauded. They have set up a club, numbers are great and shows what can be done with a bit of creative thinking. By all accounts Town have been brilliant in accommodating the club and the use of their facilities, shows the willingness is there.

Honestly think the junior game isn't too far away. We just need RFL with Town/Haven support to drive it to the next level with pathways. This will take patience and planning to get right, but if done correctly will have a huge impact on Town.