Pacific Championships 2024

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

https://www.theroar.com.au/2024/11/07/nrl-admits-kiwis-robbed-of-match-winning-penalty-goal-by-ref-blunder-in-frenetic-tonga-finish/

I'm not sure it's follow the article. It says they may have got a six again and maybe not gone for the dg. Where's the reference to a penalty?

 

[Jonty58]

5 hours ago, bazza_merged said:

I guess Australia has been lucky in having a relatively competitive opponent (NZ) close by to play regular internationals with and also a source of players for their competition. This also led to the rise of the PI countries mainly via heritage players to becoming competitive - giving 6 or so relatively competitive countries that can play in localised tournaments like this.

Imagine if England had of had something similar with France (and expanding into Wales, Ireland, Scotland, etc) - but it seems those things never were persisted with and the focus has appeared to be on matches against southern hemisphere countries

Wasn’t France once competitive? What happened.

Has England invested into France and given them support or concessions to build the game there?

Surely there are players born or raised in England with Welsh, Irish or Scottish ancestry.

The last World Cup was so exciting I didn’t bother watching the Final.

 

[Hopie]

27 minutes ago, Jonty58 said:

Wasn’t France once competitive? What happened.

 

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6957652-the-forbidden-game

[Damien]

11 hours ago, Dave T said:

Nah, it really hasn't. Let's be honest, the asks haven't been onerous. 

I understand your view, they had to focus on themselves at all costs. I just don't agree that the international game would be harmful. 

In the same way Origin isn't harmful to the NRL. These things can co-exist, and more.

Other sports manage it. We even did in Rugby League for much of our history. For all the revisionism and gaslighting of the last couple of pages it is quite clear when this started to change and why.

All international Rugby League needs is games in suitable stadiums. In some respects it has done extraordinarily well, all things considered, with the lip service shown to it and the obstacles thrown in its way. While the games in the Pacific Championship are welcome we can still be doing an awful lot better. 

[Dave T]

25 minutes ago, Damien said:

Other sports manage it. We even did in Rugby League for much of our history. For all the revisionism and gaslighting of the last couple of pages it is quite clear when this started to change and why.

All international Rugby League needs is games in suitable stadiums. In some respects it has done extraordinarily well, all things considered, with the lip service shown to it and the obstacles thrown in its way. While the games in the Pacific Championship are welcome we can still be doing an awful lot better. 

It's where I call BS on the whole point that the Aussies need to look after their club game ruthlessly above everything else and that means that it's fine to ignore or do bare minimum in the international space.

The problem is that will never change. For all the nonsense about focusing on expansion of the NRL now to reduce games and then we can do more internationals - it won't happen. It will always make more sense to focus on the club game if you have that ruthless attitude because it is so far ahead of the international game.

A hugely successful international game will never be as commercially beneficial to the NRL as the NRL club game will be - so that means they can always justify negative actions towards Test rugby. It's a drug and they will never come off it.

Buying into international RL has to be part of your philosophy, you have to want to do it, you have to want to raise money to develop the sport in developing nations.

This is the end game. 3 games a year maximum for nations, a smaller world cup every now and then, culling of anyone weak, no material funding routed to develop the sport outside of what we have. It works for the NRL. This is it.

[Damien]

10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's where I call BS on the whole point that the Aussies need to look after their club game ruthlessly above everything else and that means that it's fine to ignore or do bare minimum in the international space.

The problem is that will never change. For all the nonsense about focusing on expansion of the NRL now to reduce games and then we can do more internationals - it won't happen. It will always make more sense to focus on the club game if you have that ruthless attitude because it is so far ahead of the international game.

A hugely successful international game will never be as commercially beneficial to the NRL as the NRL club game will be - so that means they can always justify negative actions towards Test rugby. It's a drug and they will never come off it.

Buying into international RL has to be part of your philosophy, you have to want to do it, you have to want to raise money to develop the sport in developing nations.

This is the end game. 3 games a year maximum for nations, a smaller world cup every now and then, culling of anyone weak, no material funding routed to develop the sport outside of what we have. It works for the NRL. This is it.

This is the trouble with the game in Australia being defecto run by the NRL and not a governing body like the ARL of old. They just don't have the wider philosophy of growing and developing the game. The NRL and club game have taken over everything. Before the SL war the ARL had all the growth in the club game, growing to 20 teams and a true nationwide competition, but none of that came at the expense of the international game. It was complimentary to that.

[The Rocket]

30 minutes ago, Dave T said:

A hugely successful international game will never be as commercially beneficial to the NRL as the NRL club game will be

The NRL`s broadcast deal with FTA channel 9 is worth about 120m, Origin is estimated to be about 30m of that. 3 games out of 110 or whatever (regular rounds plus finals) one quarter of the deal.

Once NZ2 and eventually 3 come in the Kiwis will be able to field three teams that will match it with Oz. Very likely it will replace the Bledisloe as the number one sporting contest between those two countries. Packed out 50/60k stadiums in either country with massive broadcast ratings. There`s another 30m there.

You watch how quickly the NRL find a place for it in the calendar.

 

Same as it will be against you if we can start to go series for series for the next decade or so.

There is commercial value in international League for the NRL, but we need consistent competitive competition.

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

The NRL`s broadcast deal with FTA channel 9 is worth about 120m, Origin is estimated to be about 30m of that. 3 games out of 110 or whatever (regular rounds plus finals) one quarter of the deal.

Once NZ2 and eventually 3 come in the Kiwis will be able to field three teams that will match it with Oz. Very likely it will replace the Bledisloe as the number one sporting contest between those two countries. Packed out 50/60k stadiums in either country with massive broadcast ratings. There`s another 30m there.

You watch how quickly the NRL find a place for it in the calendar.

 

Same as it will be against you if we can start to go series for series for the next decade or so.

There is commercial value in international League for the NRL, but we need consistent competitive competition.

We started reducing games when the Aussies started losing tournaments.

The logic isn't following.

[The Rocket]

24 minutes ago, Dave T said:

We started reducing games when the Aussies started losing tournaments.

The logic isn't following.

It`s been covered a million times. One WC to the Kiwi`s and a 3 (?) nations and a 20 year drought either side and not a series against you for 50 years, I`m sorry mate but as an Aussie and international League fan, it`s not enough. But I`ll be going tomorrow because we live in hope, but I know I`m kidding myself it will be competitive, we`ll thump the Tongans just like we did two weeks ago. Same old, same old.

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

It`s been covered a million times. One WC to the Kiwi`s and a 3 (?) nations and a 20 year drought either side and not a series against you for 50 years, I`m sorry mate but as an Aussie and international League fan, it`s not enough. But I`ll be going tomorrow because we live in hope, but I know I`m kidding myself it will be competitive, we`ll thump the Tongans just like we did two weeks ago. Same old, same old.

Weren't people saying this before the final last year?

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, The Rocket said:

It`s been covered a million times. One WC to the Kiwi`s and a 3 (?) nations and a 20 year drought either side and not a series against you for 50 years, I`m sorry mate but as an Aussie and international League fan, it`s not enough. But I`ll be going tomorrow because we live in hope, but I know I`m kidding myself it will be competitive, we`ll thump the Tongans just like we did two weeks ago. Same old, same old.

No. Over a decade, the Kiwis won a World Cup, a Tri-Nations and 2 Four Nations. Why on earth would you ignore two Kiwi tournament victories if you view competitiveness as an important issue? If it's been covered a million times I'd expect you to know this. It's almost as though it ain't really important.

We've also seen the Aussies win a World Cup Final 6 nil, a Semi Final by 2, lose to Tonga and get hammered in last years Pacific Final.

This competitive nonsense is just that.

In 2005 (the first time the Aussies lost a series for years) they played 7 tests. This year they played 3 tests.

Edited November 8, 2024 by Dave T

[Exiled Wiganer]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

No. Over a decade, the Kiwis won a World Cup, a Tri-Nations and 2 Four Nations. Why kn earth would you ignore two Kiwi tournament victories if you view competitiveness as an issue? If it's been covered a million times I'd expect you to know this.

We've also seen the Aussies win a World Cup Final 6 nil, a Semi Final by 2, lose to Tonga and get hammered in last years Pacific Final.

This competitive nonsense is just that.

In 2005 (the first time the Aussies lost a series for years) they played 7 tests. This year they played 3 tests.

I am really sorry that you see so little to be optimistic about for the international game, and know it comes from a place of caring deeply. In the end, only the future will tell us whether your pessimism or my optimism is justified. I hope you enjoy the games this weekend despite your frustrations. 

[unapologetic pedant]

7 hours ago, George Watt said:

Channel Nine will hold the News until the match finishes. Has happened before in an NRL match when a long injury incident caused a 6pm overrun.

When a game runs over into the News, I've been told Nine cut short their post-match coverage with a zeal the BBC would be proud of. Potentially more of a concern with a tournament final than an NRL game.

This was one of a number of reasons why some fans had inferred the 6:20 kick-off would be the final. Until last weekend, the NRL.com schedule was unclear which games were in which timeslots.

[Exiled Wiganer]

The Kangaroo games have had Fox/9 TV audiences above 1 million, with the others being around half that (sometimes more and sometimes less). Which they are very happy about.

So, I suspect that the timings have been chosen with the goal of maximising TV viewing figures. 

Edited November 8, 2024 by Exiled Wiganer

[unapologetic pedant]

34 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

The Kangaroo games have had Fox/9 TV audiences above 1 million, with the others being around half that (sometimes more and sometimes less). Which they are very happy about.

So, I suspect that the timings have been chosen with the goal of maximising TV viewing figures. 

Makes no sense. 

FTA rating for Kiwis/Kangaroos was 546k. FTA rating for Kangaroos/Tonga was 698k.

Evenings generally rate better than afternoons.

[sam4731]

7 hours ago, MatthewWoody said:

https://www.theroar.com.au/2024/11/07/nrl-admits-kiwis-robbed-of-match-winning-penalty-goal-by-ref-blunder-in-frenetic-tonga-finish/

I'm sorry but this is just BS. There's hundreds of micro mistakes during a game of RL. This is probably one of many marginal markers not square, offsides or holding down calls that go unnoticed. Also you can guarantee that if the shoe was on the other foot and it was Tonga that were 'robbed' it wouldn't be news.

[StandOffHalf]

7 hours ago, MatthewWoody said:

https://www.theroar.com.au/2024/11/07/nrl-admits-kiwis-robbed-of-match-winning-penalty-goal-by-ref-blunder-in-frenetic-tonga-finish/

They got the 6 Again for the charge-down, so this is really by-the-by. It wouldn't have been a kick at the posts for Katoa not being square.

Isaako didn't have to shoot again. He could have set up in front.

 

[Hopie]

1 hour ago, sam4731 said:

Also you can guarantee that if the shoe was on the other foot and it was Tonga that were 'robbed' it wouldn't be news.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/344747/tongan-fans-protest-controversial-world-cup-knock-out

[sam4731]

10 minutes ago, Hopie said:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/344747/tongan-fans-protest-controversial-world-cup-knock-out

I'm not sure if you've fully read it but the referee fully defends his decision. I wonder if he would have defended the decision if it was Australia.

[George Watt]

7 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

When a game runs over into the News, I've been told Nine cut short their post-match coverage with a zeal the BBC would be proud of. Potentially more of a concern with a tournament final than an NRL game.

This was one of a number of reasons why some fans had inferred the 6:20 kick-off would be the final. Until last weekend, the NRL.com schedule was unclear which games were in which timeslots.

Do not watch Nine as I follow league on Fox here but I have watched it in the recent past and it has never had post-match coverage after the Sunday afternoon game which finishes here at 6pm and is followed by the news with no RL after this.

Just had a look at Sundays Nine RL schedule and it is covering the first 3 matches but finishes that at 6pm. The 4th game Kiwis v PNG is not scheduled to be shown. Checked other Nine network channels and all have the same coverage.

Would be interested to know where your source has watched FTA post 6pm RL. here in Aus.

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, George Watt said:

Do not watch Nine as I follow league on Fox here but I have watched it in the recent past and it has never had post-match coverage after the Sunday afternoon game which finishes here at 6pm and is followed by the news with no RL after this.

That was my point i.e. there is minimal scope for post-game coverage on Sunday afternoon. You said they will defer the start of Nine News if the game overruns. Quite right, but once it finishes the programme will likely be wound up with indecent haste. In the case of a final, this would mean no broadcast of the presentations.

[George Watt]

48 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

That was my point i.e. there is minimal scope for post-game coverage on Sunday afternoon. You said they will defer the start of Nine News if the game overruns. Quite right, but once it finishes the programme will likely be wound up with indecent haste. In the case of a final, this would mean no broadcast of the presentations.

As part of the 9 News in its sporting coverage they will report on the 3 games and show replays of any presentations they feel are appropriate- eg the winner of the men's Pacific Cup.

I will look at the 9 news tomorrow night and see what they do cover in their sport coverage segment.

Edited November 8, 2024 by George Watt

[Sports Prophet]

16 hours ago, Damien said:

This is the trouble with the game in Australia being defecto run by the NRL and not a governing body like the ARL of old. They just don't have the wider philosophy of growing and developing the game. The NRL and club game have taken over everything. Before the SL war the ARL had all the growth in the club game, growing to 20 teams and a true nationwide competition, but none of that came at the expense of the international game. It was complimentary to that.

Calling it a “nationwide” competition is quite disingenuous in my opinion and it is not the remit of the NRL to grow and develop any part of the game other than the NRL. That is the job of the ARLC, who are but one stakeholder and decision maker of the NRL.

You are very right though, the club game does take precedence. After all, the game of RL is not blessed with well financed and resourced NGBs, nor just as importantly, well funded or resourced IGBs. The players are primarily contracted to the club game, rather than central contracts like in RU and Cricket, and whilst there are no well resourced or funded IGBs or NGBs, it will forever be difficult to prioritise international sport above club RL, similar to Basketball and Ice Hockey. There’s no point getting angry about that fact, the best which can be done is to deliver solutions which compliment those club priorities. Fortunately the Australian game is doing a pretty good job of this of late.

Alternatively, the RFL can try and speed this improvement up by giving the Kangaroos three sellouts at Wembley, Manchester and Newcastle and get some good media partners, then the risk to the club game is offset. You will see the international game flourish even sooner.

Edited November 9, 2024 by Sports Prophet

[Sports Prophet]

13 hours ago, Dave T said:

Buying into international RL has to be part of your philosophy, you have to want to do it, you have to want to raise money to develop the sport in developing nations.

 

You are spot on here. 

[Sports Prophet]

12 hours ago, Dave T said:

We started reducing games when the Aussies started losing tournaments.

The logic isn't following.

If your suggestion is that the Aussies have been deliberately destroying the international game because they “started” losing games, then unfortunately Dave, I think you are falling down the same rabbit hole many here have.