England halfback dilemma

[NRLandSL]

55 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

He will be back here the following year I suspect, unless of course he suddenly becomes a very good player, who knows with good coaching?

He’s still very young people forget, same age as Sam Walker. Sam Walker is no where near reaching his potential and neither is Dodd. Even if Dodd has a poor first season for south’s I wouldn’t lose faith in him.

[Dave T]

As has been said by others, I think it's a really positive position to be in. I think we have some very decent halves running round in SL right now. We have some really good attacking halves like Williams and Lewis and then we do have those who fit in the game management mould more like Smith, Sneyd and Dodds. 

Some good options there and combinations that can support different styles and tactics. 

[Barry Badrinath]

16 hours ago, Click said:

He played 17 matches this season, and 26 matches last year.

That is one hell of a busy 6 weeks.

when was his last game for catalans this year?

[Click]

3 hours ago, Barry Badrinath said:

when was his last game for catalans this year?

No idea - But he certainly played for more than 3 weeks this year, and last.

You're going on about years ago when Johnstone was injury-prone while he was at Wakefield, over the last few years he has been very consistent and relatively injury free.

Unfortunately we watch an extremely hard game called Rugby League and injuries are inevitable for all players.

[Fly-By-TheWire]

I'm not sure I understand why Dodd is suddenly in the conversation.   Is he now in the squad?   He's been awful for a long time now.   I know he's had the distraction of signing elsewhere, but he really hasn't kicked on since his first full year, only gone backwards.   Maybe Souths is the refresh he needs, but I wouldn't be putting him anywhere near an England shirt, and I doubt Saints fans would disagree with me saying that.

Edited September 30, 2024 by Fly-By-TheWire

[StandOffHalf]

5 hours ago, Fly-By-TheWire said:

I'm not sure I understand why Dodd is suddenly in the conversation.   Is he now in the squad?   He's been awful for a long time now.   I know he's had the distraction of signing elsewhere, but he really hasn't kicked on since his first full year, only gone backwards.   Maybe Souths is the refresh he needs, but I wouldn't be putting him anywhere near an England shirt, and I doubt Saints fans would disagree with me saying that.

I think it was just kind-hearted posters trying not to kick a fella when he's down.

He's got time on his side but he's nowhere near an England jumper at the moment, in my opinion.

[Barry Badrinath]

19 hours ago, Click said:

No idea - But he certainly played for more than 3 weeks this year, and last.

You're going on about years ago when Johnstone was injury-prone while he was at Wakefield, over the last few years he has been very consistent and relatively injury free.

Unfortunately we watch an extremely hard game called Rugby League and injuries are inevitable for all players.

the 3 weeks was hyperbole, which we all do, but you do realise you're making my point for me here. matty ashton (and several other wingers) also play the extremely hard game called rugby league, and haven't picked up yet another season ending injury.

 

yes he had a good season with injuries last year, this season seems to have returned to type

[Just Browny]

Since you asked, as far as I can see Johnstone hasn't played since July so that will be a long lay off by the time the Samoa series kicks off.

[StandOffHalf]

I have no idea whether Johnstone will be good to go for the First Test, but I'd have him on the left wing if he is fit.

[Exiled Wiganer]

One of the downsides of being able to watch every game is that I have watched far less of some other sides than would ordinarily be the case (having prioritised Wigan of course, and Salford as they always seem to play in exciting games), so am nervous on picking my English side. However, my back line would be… 

? - Young - Farnworth - Wardle - Ashton - Williams - Lewis (with Smith a possible 7, depending  on whether we have organisers at 1 and 9)… I think Johnstone is absolutely first class, biut has been out for too long. 

In the forwards, I would have Thompson inked in, and both Havard and Nsemba in the mix. 

[StandOffHalf]

I have to admit to being a bit taken aback at how many on here seem on board with a complete refresh in England's second-row.

John Bateman has invariably been a stand-out whenever he's taken to the field over the last 5, 6, 7 years. I would be retaining him on the right and adding Nsemba into the mix on the left. KPP's athleticism would be perfectly suited to offloads and exploiting tiredness from the bench.

[GeordieSaint]

On 30/09/2024 at 12:56, Dunbar said:

Williams is the England captain. He will be picked.

I am very comfortable with the idea of picking Lewis or Smith based on their performances over the next fortnight. 

One of the big benefits the Aussies have had over us the last 40+ years is picking Australian teams on form off the back of Origin and Kangaroo touring squads off the back of play off's and Grand Final form.  Let's do that.

They do and they don’t. The Aussies (until they basically stopped playing internationals) quite often had a pretty settled squad regardless of the NRL form cycle. The likes of Darius Boyd, Brent Tate, DCE et al were consistently picked in the squads despite probably not being the best in-form players in their positions. Yes, they play Origin together. But it did feel like there was an Australian squad that was refreshed by 2-4 new players each year regardless of club (and Origin) form. 

So I am a keen advocate of ‘settled’ squad where the players know each well but that is refreshed with 2-4 quality players in each rotation. The international scene is not club rugby. 

(This is a generic statement - not directed at you Dunbar.)

[GeordieSaint]

11 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

John Bateman has invariably been a stand-out whenever he's taken to the field over the last 5, 6, 7 years. I would be retaining him on the right and adding Nsemba into the mix on the left. KPP's athleticism would be perfectly suited to offloads and exploiting tiredness from the bench.

This links to my previous post. Bateman should be a shoe-in for the 17. I’d probably start Bateman and KPP with Nsemba on the bench. You need experience in the team as well as just form. 

[Tex Evans Thigh]

On 30/09/2024 at 08:26, NRLandSL said:

He’s still very young people forget, same age as Sam Walker. Sam Walker is no where near reaching his potential and neither is Dodd. Even if Dodd has a poor first season for south’s I wouldn’t lose faith in him.

Sam Walker has really kicked on this season though and is way ahead of Dodd, not that Dodd can't improve. Walker of course qualifies for England, although he looks close to origin now with DCE aging out so doubt he will be an option.

[bobbruce]

I know I’ll get slated for this but I think Wane will play Williams and Smith in the halves and use Lewis as the interchange hooker. He isn’t dropping Williams and him and Lewis are too similar to play together but you have to get Lewis on the pitch somewhere. 

[Dunbar]

6 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

I know I’ll get slated for this but I think Wane will play Williams and Smith in the halves and use Lewis as the interchange hooker. He isn’t dropping Williams and him and Lewis are too similar to play together but you have to get Lewis on the pitch somewhere. 

I said the same earlier.  You cannot have Lewis and a specialist 9 on the bench.  Having Williams and Lewis on the pitch at the back end of a half would be a good option.  Particularly of we started with a 9 who could play big minutes.

[NRLandSL]

7 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Sam Walker has really kicked on this season though and is way ahead of Dodd, not that Dodd can't improve. Walker of course qualifies for England, although he looks close to origin now with DCE aging out so doubt he will be an option.

Not saying Sam Walker could play for England. Just using him as an example for Dodd. Sam Walker is no where his potential and will continue to improve. Same thing with Lewis Dodd, he is very young and will continue to Improve even if he doesn’t have the best season at south’s next year.

[JohnM]

On 30/09/2024 at 12:54, Worzel said:

He's come on leaps and bounds in 12 months. We had Joe Ford come in as his part-time kicking coach, and he seems to have made a huge difference to his game (Doncaster Knights RU coach, brother of George and son of Mike).

That's one of the good things about Mikey, he still has development in him, humble lad who listens and works hard. Waney said the same thing about him from the last England camp. 

I agree with what you say, but "humble lad'? No, no and thrice no! He has exactly the arrogance, the combative nature necessary in big games. 

[Worzel]

2 hours ago, JohnM said:

I agree with what you say, but "humble lad'? No, no and thrice no! He has exactly the arrogance, the combative nature necessary in big games. 

On the pitch he has swagger, yes, as all good half backs need - I agree. What I meant though was that off the pitch he's a sweetheart, a humble lad and a coaches dream who isn't in any way 'up himself' and is always looking to learn. I think that high performance mindset is why he'll be a far better player in his late twenties than he is now (or his positional competitors are at that age)

[Worzel]

13 hours ago, bobbruce said:

I know I’ll get slated for this but I think Wane will play Williams and Smith in the halves and use Lewis as the interchange hooker. He isn’t dropping Williams and him and Lewis are too similar to play together but you have to get Lewis on the pitch somewhere. 

Yes I think this is inevitable, given the mechanics of Waneball. He isn't a creative coach.

Personally I think the team will be far better with a Williams and Lewis combination, alongside a pivot-style loose forward. I think we have the players for that structure, and it would be more disruptive to NRL-raised players. But I agree Wane will do what you say. 

[Dunbar]

I have spent the last couple of days looking at the game play of Lewis and Smith and also looking at the stats.

I have changed my view, despite Smith performing really well in the last series, I think that Lewis is the better player - matching the tactical kicking game and game managememt of Smith while providing a much more dangerous running threat.

I would go with Lewis and Williams in the halves.  I think this may be cemented over the next two weeks if Lewis can stamp his class on the eliniation final and Grand Final if KR get there.

[Welshleaguelover]

On 30/09/2024 at 19:03, Fly-By-TheWire said:

I'm not sure I understand why Dodd is suddenly in the conversation.   Is he now in the squad?   He's been awful for a long time now.   I know he's had the distraction of signing elsewhere, but he really hasn't kicked on since his first full year, only gone backwards.   Maybe Souths is the refresh he needs, but I wouldn't be putting him anywhere near an England shirt, and I doubt Saints fans would disagree with me saying that.

Probably because aussie journalists have decided he is a "gun".

They haven't seen him play, but he kicked a drop goal against Penrith so he must be.

[Welshleaguelover]

8 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I have spent the last couple of days looking at the game play of Lewis and Smith and also looking at the stats.

I have changed my view, despite Smith performing really well in the last series, I think that Lewis is the better player - matching the tactical kicking game and game managememt of Smith while providing a much more dangerous running threat.

I would go with Lewis and Williams in the halves.  I think this may be cemented over the next two weeks if Lewis can stamp his class on the eliniation final and Grand Final if KR get there.

Lewis' kicking game has really come on over the last year. His goal kicking is still a work in progress but I'm sure he'll keep working at it.

[Welshleaguelover]

On 30/09/2024 at 10:06, StandOffHalf said:

I'd be very tempted to go with a KR and Wire spine. I'm a massive admirer of Welsby but I think he might benefit from a good off-season and a chance to get away from the game.

Evalds, Williams, Lewis, Minchella and Walker.

Keep a measure of continuity and see how they fare in the England jumper. 

Evalds as a support-running FB, with Lewis and Williams adding the magic, and Minchella as a middle ball-handler.

Evalds will be physically dominated by the southern hemisphere teams. Cracking club player though.

[StandOffHalf]

1 hour ago, Welshleaguelover said:

Evalds will be physically dominated by the southern hemisphere teams. Cracking club player though.

That could be true - especially in Southern Hemisphere conditions - but I think he'd go well at home in England.

I just think he should be right in contention. Honestly, I think he has been quite a bit better than Welsby in 2024. Form is obviously not the only thing, but I think it is important. I don't think Welsby is in the right space heading into this series.