England v Australia 2025 - coming to the UK!

[Archie Gordon]

We talk about creating narratives and peaks during the season. Bookended by both the women's and men's cricket Ashes, we really could have pushed 2025 as a year-long contest between England and Australia. So many opportunities for cross-promotion.

Women's Ashes launched by a blockbuster Vegas 1st test, followed by two tests in April/May (outside NRLW and WSL windows) and then a men's series running in October/November, straight into the cricket version. The advantages of being able to push all of this from the end of 2024 are obvious. Wasted opportunity.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Hopie said:

If the "are they actually coming" question has actually been answered, then you have a point, I suspect that like last year we still need an opponent to commit. 

Yep, that's my worry too.

[Tommygilf]

The Aussies know the value of having these sorts of fixtures set in stone and planned out. They do it annually with great success for Origin for example.

That they do not do this with the international game is a choice, made because it is clearly now so low on their list of priorities it's almost dropping off.

[Big Picture]

4 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

The Aussies know the value of having these sorts of fixtures set in stone and planned out. They do it annually with great success for Origin for example.

That they do not do this with the international game is a choice, made because it is clearly now so low on their list of priorities it's almost dropping off.

I suggest that the real reason for the delay in sorting everything out and announcing it isn't that, it's that the RFL is struggling to show the Aussies a solid plan for a profitable series.  

[Damien]

6 hours ago, Big Picture said:

I suggest that the real reason for the delay in sorting everything out and announcing it isn't that, it's that the RFL is struggling to show the Aussies a solid plan for a profitable series.  

I don't buy this at all. There was a plan in place for the cancelled 2020 Ashes tour that was set to be very profitable and a significant boost to the RFL's finances. It really doesn't have to be greatly different, or different at all, than was arranged for 5 years ago.

We have also had profitable Ashes matches in this country going back a long time and there is an obvious appetite for this series too. At no time in a series like this has there been a hangup over a business plan and this just seems like a get out of jail card waiting to be played. If the Aussies want to play then it will be played and will be profitable, its as simple as that.

It also seems strange that this narrative has begun to put all of this on the RFL and blame them. This series was meant to be in Australia, what was that business plan like? I can absolutely guarantee there wasn't one.

[sam4731]

6 hours ago, Big Picture said:

I suggest that the real reason for the delay in sorting everything out and announcing it isn't that, it's that the RFL is struggling to show the Aussies a solid plan for a profitable series.  

How is it on the RFL to make this work? The original plan was for Australia to host. This seemed to land on our door with not much notice. You can't expect miracles from the RFL, these things take time to organise.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

How is it on the RFL to make this work? The original plan was for Australia to host. This seemed to land on our door with not much notice. You can't expect miracles from the RFL, these things take time to organise.

I was going to make a similar point about why is this always on the RFL. Back when we last toured it was all put on the RFL and then the Aussies decided they didn't want to host GB after all so our tour consisted only of NZ, Tonga and Samoa - but there won't have been demands on Tonga to make the your a success for example.

We really need to grow up as a sport and realise that we are all stakeholders and everyone has their part to play. Income from am Ashes series should be driven from more than the UK market.

This delay does also seem to challenge some people's narrative that it was the RFL who asked for it in GB instead of going on tour.

I do think it'll be venues that are challenging. Due to our sporadic approach to these Autumn internationals we haven't really built up these regular relationships, and organising matches in London during the football season and NFL international games is likely to be challenging. All the mentions of Everton are ultimately about a ground that isn't finished yet.

[sam4731]

10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I was going to make a similar point about why is this always on the RFL. Back when we last toured it was all put on the RFL and then the Aussies decided they didn't want to host GB after all so our tour consisted only of NZ, Tonga and Samoa - but there won't have been demands on Tonga to make the your a success for example.

We really need to grow up as a sport and realise that we are all stakeholders and everyone has their part to play. Income from am Ashes series should be driven from more than the UK market.

This delay does also seem to challenge some people's narrative that it was the RFL who asked for it in GB instead of going on tour.

I do think it'll be venues that are challenging. Due to our sporadic approach to these Autumn internationals we haven't really built up these regular relationships, and organising matches in London during the football season and NFL international games is likely to be challenging. All the mentions of Everton are ultimately about a ground that isn't finished yet.

I think the reality of why it's over here is that the NRL doesn't want it to overshadow the Pacific Championships which will be more important to them in terms of commercial success.

[gingerjon]

31 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

How is it on the RFL to make this work? 

It shouldn't be.

It is.

They can't.

[Tommygilf]

7 hours ago, Big Picture said:

I suggest that the real reason for the delay in sorting everything out and announcing it isn't that, it's that the RFL is struggling to show the Aussies a solid plan for a profitable series.  

That strikes me as nonsense. Australia touring here (and NZ) has always been a relatively easy sell in big stadiums in the recent past. The RFL would also be financially responsible for whatever plan is in place, it's not a joint venture. A 3 match series based in London, the North West, and Yorkshire would be fine and easy enough to sort. 

Given the Aussies were the ones to flip their desire to host a series at the 11th hour, I'd suggest the real reason is because they aren't actually that keen on coming at all.

[Dave T]

14 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

That strikes me as nonsense. Australia touring here (and NZ) has always been a relatively easy sell in big stadiums in the recent past. The RFL would also be financially responsible for whatever plan is in place, it's not a joint venture. A 3 match series based in London, the North West, and Yorkshire would be fine and easy enough to sort. 

Given the Aussies were the ones to flip their desire to host a series at the 11th hour, I'd suggest the real reason is because they aren't actually that keen on coming at all.

I wouldn't be surprised if they really want to just stay and play the Pacific Cup. They get the money and it's less effort.

If they were serious about international RL they could actually do both, imagine playing 5/6 matches at the end of the year.

[Sports Prophet]

As usual, there are a lot of unsubstantiated accusations being touted here.

[JonM]

21 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

 A 3 match series based in London, the North West, and Yorkshire would be fine and easy enough to sort. 

How so? That's how you end up with playing at Wigan, Leeds and Huddersfield or Hull. Premier League football teams are under no obligation to rent their stadia to us, and the money involved is peanuts to them.

Spurs, Arsenal, Wembley all have specific planning restrictions on how many non-football events they can hold and NFL games, concerts, football internationals etc. are all booked in already. If the ARL/ NRL doesn't confirm that they're coming (or not) until halfway through 2025, the chances of securing a big venue are pretty slim. 

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, JonM said:

How so? That's how you end up with playing at Wigan, Leeds and Huddersfield or Hull. Premier League football teams are under no obligation to rent their stadia to us, and the money involved is peanuts to them.

Spurs, Arsenal, Wembley all have specific planning restrictions on how many non-football events they can hold and NFL games, concerts, football internationals etc. are all booked in already. If the ARL/ NRL doesn't confirm that they're coming (or not) until halfway through 2025, the chances of securing a big venue are pretty slim. 

Sorry I should have caveated that they are easy enough to sort with more than 3 weeks notice. 

[Tommygilf]

15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they really want to just stay and play the Pacific Cup. They get the money and it's less effort.

If they were serious about international RL they could actually do both, imagine playing 5/6 matches at the end of the year.

What like a sport who actually takes internationals seriously? You must be mad.

[Tommygilf]

14 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

As usual, there are a lot of unsubstantiated accusations being touted here.

Absolutely, against the RFL.

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, JonM said:

How so? That's how you end up with playing at Wigan, Leeds and Huddersfield or Hull. Premier League football teams are under no obligation to rent their stadia to us, and the money involved is peanuts to them.

Spurs, Arsenal, Wembley all have specific planning restrictions on how many non-football events they can hold and NFL games, concerts, football internationals etc. are all booked in already. If the ARL/ NRL doesn't confirm that they're coming (or not) until halfway through 2025, the chances of securing a big venue are pretty slim. 

You learn very quickly about restrictions and cross them off the list and move to your next option. Ultimately if London don't have a stadium available, and I find that difficult to believe, you move on to Newcastle etc.

[Damien]

Just now, Dave T said:

You learn very quickly about restrictions and cross them off the list and move to your next option. Ultimately if London don't have a stadium available, and I find that difficult to believe, you move on to Newcastle etc.

Yeah it's not really an excuse after 4 months.

Ultimately we have good relationships with Man Utd and Leeds Utd. I'd be amazed if we couldn't find out the status of those extremely quickly. Wembley isn't full of events and has no host team, finding if one weekend is available in October/November isn't going to be difficult. That's 3 big event stadiums that covers the country and our key markets.

Throw in say Wigan Bolton, Hull, Huddersfield, which would always be an available fallback if any of those aren't available, and we have a decent list of possible venues already. I wouldn't be enamoured on these smaller venues but one with a couple of the bigger grounds isn't the end of the world.

Sure the likes of Everton, Newcastle and Man City maybe difficult but I'm pretty sure you will find out more or less straight away if games are a no go (and it wouldnt surprise me if thats the case).

[Worzel]

28 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

As usual, there are a lot of unsubstantiated accusations being touted here.

Surely that's why we're all here? 

[Archie Gordon]

Still my view:

The NRL must be awful to deal with. Almost certain that they are the reason behind the delay as nothing else really stacks up.

The RFL has handled all this very poorly. Zero comms hasn't worked. No sign of building our own mid-season international/rep programme is madness in the face of the power imbalance in the NRL's favour. We are weak, sure, but we are also coming across as craven.

The women's Ashes aren't considered inportant by anyone.

[Dave T]

12 minutes ago, Worzel said:

Surely that's why we're all here? 

Yeah, if we start pulling people for that we're all in trouble

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Still my view:

The NRL must be awful to deal with. Almost certain that they are the reason behind the delay as nothing else really stacks up.

The RFL has handled all this very poorly. Zero comms hasn't worked. No sign of building our own mid-season international/rep programme is madness in the face of the power imbalance in the NRL's favour. We are weak, sure, but we are also coming across as craven.

The women's Ashes aren't considered inportant by anyone.

We just don't communicate anything any more. It's weird. It's almost been radio silence for months now and the season has started already.

[M j M]

Don't laugh but maybe they are going to announce it as part of a phased series of news items in the two week build up to the new SL season?

[north yorks trinity]

I do wonder if the Aussies' intention all along was to cancel but claiming to be prepared to come to England was just a half way house for domestic PR reasons. I realise that northern hemisphere RL rates pretty low on their radar but cancelling a home series might have created more negative news compared to cancelling an away series.

[Worzel]

3 minutes ago, M j M said:

Don't laugh but maybe they are going to announce it as part of a phased series of news items in the two week build up to the new SL season?

Sorry, it was involuntary.