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Posted
12 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

You couldn't have that in the UK - our product placement rules (even after they have been liberalised relatively recently) are some of the strictest in the world. 

Again, bowing to your knowledge but is that still the case? I have seen Hays Travel, The Co-Op and (I think) Starbucks all featuring prominently in Coronation Street lately. Not subtly either, blatantly so. 
So why couldn't we have the "X Company Replay"? Genuine question.

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

Theres some real novice opinions on here - my career was sales and you won or got sacked, my mantra was top line vanity bottom sanity. If you negotiated on your own pitch playing downhill with wind assistance  - you mostly won. As a sport we dont know our strengths or at best havent a clue how to monetarise them eg lets say 200000 families have a passion for RL and spend £2k pa on gas/electric thats £400m of spend, do the same with food thats close to £1b Car insurance, house insurance etc you immediate have leverage and a potential win for the buyers and potential benefits for the stakeholders in the sport. Each of those examples has multiple players looking for a return - you play them with exclusivity for the right deal. You wont win them all at once but you will elevate your brand in their minds

Edited by sweaty craiq
  • Haha 1
Posted (edited)

Hmmm. After 129 years, numerous RFL iterations, numerous league structures, numerous reviews etc, we don't know our strengths?

I spent numerous years in sales  with eye- watering targets with project gestations ranging from months to years, with monthly pipeline reviews. Sure there was pressure to deliver but the emphasis was on long term planning, working with the prospect to ensure short and long-term revenue ,( capital purchase plus support and upgrade revenue) but competiting with other potential suppliers. 

That mirrors in many ways, the RFLs approach through "Re-Imagining Rugby League"

The problem with "win or get sacked" is that it can lead to "do anything, say anything" to get the sale, with all that implies in terms of repeat sales, customer satisfaction, market reputation, recruitment issues etc. 

Again , I refer readers to the double-glazing business where "win or be sacked" was/is rife.

https://edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/7976/stormseal-ltdsurestyle-ltd-and-the-board-of-trade-enquiry

Edited by JohnM
  • Like 2
Posted
19 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Theres some real novice opinions on here - my career was sales and you won or got sacked, my mantra was top line vanity bottom sanity. If you negotiated on your own pitch playing downhill with wind assistance  - you mostly won. As a sport we dont know our strengths or at best havent a clue how to monetarise them eg lets say 200000 families have a passion for RL and spend £2k pa on gas/electric thats £400m of spend, do the same with food thats close to £1b Car insurance, house insurance etc you immediate have leverage and a potential win for the buyers and potential benefits for the stakeholders in the sport. Each of those examples has multiple players looking for a return - you play them with exclusivity for the right deal. You wont win them all at once but you will elevate your brand in their minds

When you refer to people's opinions as novice and then come up a post like this I have to chuckle.

 

  • Like 3
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Posted

ASUS recently [3 seasons in a row,i think,until Matt Ellis bought us out] were the main sponsors for Wakefield Trinity.

Asus employs over 15,000 people worldwide, and ranks in Time's 2023 best worldwide companies,also Forbes world's best employers list for 4 consecutive years from 2020,and Fortune's World's one of the most admired companies for the eighth time in 2023.

ASUS are still sponsoring Trinity as far as i am aware, just not the main sponsor,that is now Matt Ellis's company, D.I.Y. Kitchens.

If Trinity can get a worldwide major brand on board,i'm sure with a bit more work at it, the RFL could do so.

 

 

 

Posted

One problem, is the production of the game in the UK. 

Sky / BBC, constantly use close up shots, rather than long range camera work, as with football. With football, the perimeter advertising is virtually constantly in view of the tv audience, whilst with league, the advertising might be being shown around the ground but is largely invisible to the tv audience. 

 

 

  • Like 1
Posted
27 minutes ago, Trinity1873 said:

ASUS recently [3 seasons in a row,i think,until Matt Ellis bought us out] were the main sponsors for Wakefield Trinity.

Asus employs over 15,000 people worldwide, and ranks in Time's 2023 best worldwide companies,also Forbes world's best employers list for 4 consecutive years from 2020,and Fortune's World's one of the most admired companies for the eighth time in 2023.

ASUS are still sponsoring Trinity as far as i am aware, just not the main sponsor,that is now Matt Ellis's company, D.I.Y. Kitchens.

If Trinity can get a worldwide major brand on board,i'm sure with a bit more work at it, the RFL could do so.

Exactly. So grading is addressing the thinks that CLUBS have to have in place to make them more attractive to such sponsors.  That collectively makes the whole sport more attractive, too 

However, there are things to consider. Generally,  there are levels of sign off of marketing spend, so local branches may be able to sign off limited to £x, regional branches limited to £ XX, national limited to £xxx.  In addition, spend on sponsorship  might be easy at local level but harder to justify the higher up the sign off tree.

Posted

I guess despite the various suggestions is that the fundamental problem is the lack of a strong marketing organisation within RFL/SL, recognition of the costs of employing such expertise and hence the non investment in such. 

Yep we may not have the funds one may say but recognition of need and prioritising of such by each club taking less central funding to enable investment for long term benefit.    Again that is where a good CEO of the organisation comes in as the initial building block.

We have IMG involved now and we hope that will make up with the lack own good marketing organisation but we still have the underlying fundamentals of RFL leadership.

I was in a highly successful business which would be described in business speak as Marketing Led and where the highest salaries were and the best of talent hence I may be somewhat biased in my views.

  • Like 2
Posted

I'm sure I remember reading something about Asus sponsoring Wakefield (one of the commercial partner guys was a fan) and him saying how cheap it was at the time. A comment about the value being normally expenses comes to mind. That's not necessarily a criticism, but a recognition of the space RL works in. 

Our partners are important too as they seek associations with other premium brands too. Rolls Royce sell at Yacht shows for example, Rolex and Marriot-Bonvoy both want to be in F1 with Mercedes and Ferrari. 

Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Eddie said:

The ones played at non bog standard SL grounds sold even fewer tickets (Boro, Coventry etc). 

I bet you a pound to a pinch that if for instance Samoa v Georgia had a world cup game played at the KCOM, St Helens, Ellend Road and the 2 you've named that they would sell out. Not because of interest in the game, but sponsorship companies marketing it 

Edited by Stainesrover
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Posted

I may be being completely thick but I can't see a partners page or dedicated space on the RFL site.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

Posted
9 minutes ago, Stainesrover said:

I bet you a pound to a pinch that if for instance Samoa v Georgia had a world cup game played at the KCOM, St Helens, Ellend Road and the 2 you've named that they would sell out. Not because of interest in the game, but sponsorship companies marketing it 

They’d be full of school trips and southerners. I doubt many local people would be paying full whack to go to watch Samoa v Georgia in the Yawnion at those places. 

Posted
1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

I may be being completely thick but I can't see a partners page or dedicated space on the RFL site.

Isn’t there a link to the Papa John’s website? 

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Posted
5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I may be being completely thick but I can't see a partners page or dedicated space on the RFL site.

There isn't. 

If you go to the England section of the site there is a sponsor panel at the bottom. This has old sponsors like Selco and Mushy Peas, but not the new sponsor of egg.

Maybe another good example of why we have challenges with sponsors, because we treat them.like ######.

  • Like 3
Posted

I still don't think we have moved on from the Eddie Stobart farce, which was absolutely disgraceful. British Ice Hockey attract some pretty decent blue chip companies as sponsors, yes they may not be ploughing millions into the sport but it shows that big companies are willing to support sports other than soccer/golf/cricket etc.

I just don't understand why we as a sport rely on mushy peas and a cheap vodka brand for sponsorship.

Warrington manage to get Hoover and Fly Emirates to sponsor them, why wasn't SL/RFL knocking on their doors first?

  • Like 1
Posted
6 minutes ago, Stainesrover said:

I still don't think we have moved on from the Eddie Stobart farce, which was absolutely disgraceful. British Ice Hockey attract some pretty decent blue chip companies as sponsors, yes they may not be ploughing millions into the sport but it shows that big companies are willing to support sports other than soccer/golf/cricket etc.

I just don't understand why we as a sport rely on mushy peas and a cheap vodka brand for sponsorship.

Warrington manage to get Hoover and Fly Emirates to sponsor them, why wasn't SL/RFL knocking on their doors first?

Emirates had previously partnered with the RFL (and Leigh first IIRC).

When you say Ice Hockey has some good sponsors, who do you mean? 

EIHL PARTNERS | Elite Ice Hockey League - Pointstreak Sites  They only highlight one partner on their site.

Your point on clubs is a valid one though - we do get some decent sponsors at club level, as well as some local fish and chip shops!

Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Emirates had previously partnered with the RFL (and Leigh first IIRC).

When you say Ice Hockey has some good sponsors, who do you mean? 

EIHL PARTNERS | Elite Ice Hockey League - Pointstreak Sites  They only highlight one partner on their site.

Your point on clubs is a valid one though - we do get some decent sponsors at club level, as well as some local fish and chip shops!

I totally understand locality when it comes to club level, I work for a company that was main sponsor on Hull KRs shirt, and we really did see an uplift in profits.

I just think we could have more big companies sponsoring us. We can do it, Specsavers for example.

A quick look at the RFU's partners include- Allianz, 02, British Airways, Britvic, Guinness, Continental Tyres, Papa John's, Britvic, Dove soap, Irwin Mitchell, Bollinger Champagne, Fanatics, Crew Clothing, Heineken, JCB and more insurance companies then you could shake a stick at.

Whereas you go on the RFL website and not one partner is named, so off the top of my head I can remember- Betfred, Glens vodka, Batchelors mushy peas, Specsavers, Dacia and Egg, yes there will be more but Its hard to find.

My main point is yes, it's a hard sell to get a Champaign company onboard, Similar to 02 and British Airways but why can't we get at least 25% of the companies Union get? I understand demographics is an issue but for a sport that has more media coverage than ever we can't manage to attract big companies like we used to?

Edited by Stainesrover
  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

The trends in advertisers in the game is reflective of the decline of the local economies in which the game is played. 

You have your three main eras, the first where big local employers would sponsor the local team, almost as a form of patronage and good will more than anything, your ICIs your St Helens Glass. 

Then as those industries declined and were not replaced a sense of malaise slipped in the game entered the booze and fags era, Silk Cut, Stones Bitter, Worthingtons.

Legislation made it more difficult for those industries to advertise and then post-2008 we've moved into a more predatory era, Betting sites, Cash Converters, a literal bailiff in Widnes' case.

Edited by DI Keith Fowler

I was born to run a club like this. Number 1, I do not spook easily, and those who think I do, are wasting their time, with their surprise attacks.

Posted
19 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

The trends in advertisers in the game is reflective of the decline of the local economies in which the game is played. 

You have your three main eras, the first where big local employers would sponsor the local team, almost as a form of patronage and good will more than anything, your ICIs your St Helens Glass. 

Then as those industries declined and were not replaced a sense of malaise slipped in the game entered the booze and fags era, Silk Cut, Stones Bitter, Worthingtons.

Legislation made it more difficult for those industries to advertise and then post-2008 we've moved into a more predatory era, Betting sites, Cash Converters, a literal bailiff in Widnes' case.

We did in the 2000s/2010s though have the likes of Halifax Bank, Guinness, Gillette, Tetleys, Fly Emirates, Jet2, Stobart, Izuzu, JJB, Sainsbury's, P&O (questionable I know), Lloyds TSB (pre financial crisis), British Gas, The CoOp, Specsavers, Singha, Moss Bros, Highland Spring, Kelloggs, and more.

We clearly have an issue retaining sponsors - that is about value and/or it is about treatment. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

We did in the 2000s/2010s though have the likes of Halifax Bank, Guinness, Gillette, Tetleys, Fly Emirates, Jet2, Stobart, Izuzu, JJB, Sainsbury's, P&O (questionable I know), Lloyds TSB (pre financial crisis), British Gas, The CoOp, Specsavers, Singha, Moss Bros, Highland Spring, Kelloggs, and more.

We clearly have an issue retaining sponsors - that is about value and/or it is about treatment. 

Those don't fit into my grand overarching theory so I reject them on that basis. 

  • Haha 1

I was born to run a club like this. Number 1, I do not spook easily, and those who think I do, are wasting their time, with their surprise attacks.

Posted
2 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

Those don't fit into my grand overarching theory so I reject them on that basis. 

Been there myself sir

Posted
2 hours ago, Stainesrover said:

I totally understand locality when it comes to club level, I work for a company that was main sponsor on Hull KRs shirt, and we really did see an uplift in profits.

I just think we could have more big companies sponsoring us. We can do it, Specsavers for example.

A quick look at the RFU's partners include- Allianz, 02, British Airways, Britvic, Guinness, Continental Tyres, Papa John's, Britvic, Dove soap, Irwin Mitchell, Bollinger Champagne, Fanatics, Crew Clothing, Heineken, JCB and more insurance companies then you could shake a stick at.

Whereas you go on the RFL website and not one partner is named, so off the top of my head I can remember- Betfred, Glens vodka, Batchelors mushy peas, Specsavers, Dacia and Egg, yes there will be more but Its hard to find.

My main point is yes, it's a hard sell to get a Champaign company onboard, Similar to 02 and British Airways but why can't we get at least 25% of the companies Union get? I understand demographics is an issue but for a sport that has more media coverage than ever we can't manage to attract big companies like we used to?

Demographics.

Posted
12 hours ago, MidlandsJohn said:

Internationals are THE big stumbling block, not just because of the lack of them - RU whether you love or detest it has the World Cup, Six Nations and Autumn Internationals, where you know the dates, teams, format and good idea of who will be covering it fairly early. Then you have RL with a World Cup where you're unsure about the teams, unsure about how much mainstream media attention it will get and possibly unsure whether it will actually happen at all. Then you have the international scene outside the WC where it appears the Wheelchair teams are working harder to play more matches than the Men's do.

But also, the issue for me with RL is look WHO the nations being targeted are. RU's World Cup gets coverage in lots of rich or at least middling markets - UK, Australasia, North America, Japan, I'm sure mainland Europe is covered too.

What does RL have instead? Cook Islands with a worldwide community of roughly 120,000, Fiji Samoa and Tonga who are less than a million combined and Lebanon which is an economic basket case. Why is a blue-chip company going to want to invest in sponsorship for exposure in Rarotonga and Beirut when they can punp money into the other code and get viewers in L.A. and Tokyo?

You just summed up why those tiny little island countries moving up the tiers of RL isn't going to impress anyone out there in the wider world, in fact more likely the opposite due to showing up just how tiny and poor the game's footprint in the world is.  Thank you for that.

12 hours ago, gingerjon said:

This is the one that gets me most. A decent deal for what it was, with a cash value that ran to thousands if you worked it out. And everyone lined up to take the mick.

That's probably because they believe the "greatest game" tag and assume that despite the sport's small regional footprint it should have much better deals than it can reasonably get.

Posted
3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

We did in the 2000s/2010s though have the likes of Halifax Bank, Guinness, Gillette, Tetleys, Fly Emirates, Jet2, Stobart, Izuzu, JJB, Sainsbury's, P&O (questionable I know), Lloyds TSB (pre financial crisis), British Gas, The CoOp, Specsavers, Singha, Moss Bros, Highland Spring, Kelloggs, and more.

We clearly have an issue retaining sponsors - that is about value and/or it is about treatment. 

On the surface, they are good "names". What we don't seem to know is how much they paid, what they expected in return, how long the contacts were. They've got to get a business benefit.

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