Toulouse - no plan for SL but will take any opportunity

[Hvy wg]

1 hour ago, oiseau said:

Going back to 14 would seem the logical progression Gordon and it would seem the only realistic way to encompass TO & Toronto in the system.

Yeah, the original idea was a five-year plan and they are well on track to accomplish that. The kids are growing up fast but he's correct in saying the club isn't ready for the big leap up to SL. There's a heck of a lot of naiivity at the club both on and off the pitch and they really need to establish a more solid fan base as well as becoming more 'street-wise' at this level. I know of at least one player who won't be at the club next season and i'm sure Sylvain will be looking to strengthen in several positions.

This weekend is a big game for TO against Sheffield. They have never beaten them and the nerves will be jangling. A victory is essential and the loss of Ford is immense all of which wll add to the pressure.

That's the problem there. They've stayed injury free for quite a long time. If injuries hit them, they cannot compensate in the key positions. 

[Fabou]

14 hours ago, oiseau said:

Going back to 14 would seem the logical progression Gordon and it would seem the only realistic way to encompass TO & Toronto in the system.

Yeah, the original idea was a five-year plan and they are well on track to accomplish that. The kids are growing up fast but he's correct in saying the club isn't ready for the big leap up to SL. There's a heck of a lot of naiivity at the club both on and off the pitch and they really need to establish a more solid fan base as well as becoming more 'street-wise' at this level. I know of at least one player who won't be at the club next season and i'm sure Sylvain will be looking to strengthen in several positions.

This weekend is a big game for TO against Sheffield. They have never beaten them and the nerves will be jangling. A victory is essential and the loss of Ford is immense all of which wll add to the pressure.

the club will never be ready for SL before playing in SL. it is not because TO has beaten leigh or the catalan that it means the club is ready. the other day, I watched Widnes against Saints (? ok not sure it was the Saints... but good performance from widnes) and I thought that we were not at this level yet.. like not at all. If we had to face this kind of opposition every we, we would not win a lot of match in the season. and it was widnes, the performance was great but not the best neither. So I wondered: How could we develop our players to this kind of level. well, by playing in this competition, even if it will be painful.

Regarding the fanbase, it wont be developed that much without TV when they play in England and against championship sides. the championship is difficult, but the sooner TO leaves to SL the better. even if they go back in the championship after one SL season.

I dont know what you mean by naivity, but I like that state of mind: “Every game counts. We have no plan in place for TO being in Super League but we’ve talked among ourselves. If the opportunity is there, we’ll take it, of course. Even though we are not ready yet as a club, we will push it. You cannot wait, as you never know if it will happen again.”

[dunno much]

Anthony Marion filling in for Jono for now;

[The Parksider]

16 hours ago, Fabou said:

well.. you want a club to develop SL standard players.. without playing in SL? that is not logic. you can develop this kind of level while playing in that level.

I don't want anything, the SL clubs do.

Playing in SL of course hones the talent of any already talented player. The question is does France produce enough raw talent to then stock two teams.

You want SL clubs to accept Toulouse into SL on the idea that if their French players play at top level they will become top level players.

This isn't reality and the problem for Toulouse is after 10 years in Superleague Les Catalans still heavily rely on imports to get to SL standard. Last year they had 11 non french senior players.

[The Parksider]

15 hours ago, oiseau said:

Going back to 14 would seem the logical progression Gordon and it would seem the only realistic way to encompass TO & Toronto in the system.

Going back to 14 will split the TV deal 14 ways and reduce TV income for the existing 12 clubs, they will not stand for that and they have said so.

[Fabou]

2 hours ago, The Parksider said:

You want SL clubs to accept Toulouse into SL on the idea that if their French players play at top level they will become top level players.

This isn't reality and the problem for Toulouse is after 10 years in Superleague Les Catalans still heavily rely on imports to get to SL standard. Last year they had 11 non french senior players.

Well, i dont want anything neither. there is a promotion system in place. if Toulouse succeeds, great. if not, they will keep trying.

the thing is: you get better when you play at the best level possible. that was only my point to answer you and the people who question the capacity of the french players. in term of development, the TO did not wait the RFL. the club has today 2 U20 teams because it has had 2 or mor U10 teams 10 years ago. simple as that. the club did not recruit 2 U20 teams when they enter the League One last year, the club had them already. what brings back the SL standard issue:

the problem of creating SL standard is a problem of competition level in France. if the federation and the clubs sit together to provide the requirements for a pro structure in the french Elite 1, the level in France will increase. the RFL and the 2 clubs (TO and Cat) cannot be taken for responsible for this. I would say this is a french issue.

 

 

 

[Hvy wg]

3 hours ago, The Parksider said:

I don't want anything, the SL clubs do.

Playing in SL of course hones the talent of any already talented player. The question is does France produce enough raw talent to then stock two teams.

You want SL clubs to accept Toulouse into SL on the idea that if their French players play at top level they will become top level players.

This isn't reality and the problem for Toulouse is after 10 years in Superleague Les Catalans still heavily rely on imports to get to SL standard. Last year they had 11 non french senior players.

But here's the kicker : quotas still exists. Everybody is relying on imports. There is not a single team in SL without imports and every team is trying to fill up the quotas spots. Saying the problem for Toulouse is that Catalans are using imports is like saying the problem for London is that Widnes is using imports. 

Nobody wants Toulouse in SL because "they're French". Toulouse in SL is an excellent idea because it's a huge city, an economic stronghold, with a population area 4 times bigger than Perpignan's. 

Besides that, you can have all the potential in the world, if you do not play at the highest level, your talent is wasted. When they entered League One, players like Boyer and Canet were Elite 1 players with a Elite 1 level. They have progressed to Championship level where they're very competitive. If they stayed in Elite 1, they would have never been this good. 

[oiseau]

On 19/05/2017 at 8:41 AM, Fabou said:

 

I dont know what you mean by naivity, but I like that state of mind: “Every game counts. We have no plan in place for TO being in Super League but we’ve talked among ourselves. If the opportunity is there, we’ll take it, of course. Even though we are not ready yet as a club, we will push it. You cannot wait, as you never know if it will happen again.”

'Naiivity' reared it's head again against Sheffield with some terrible choice of plays at times when a cool head would have brought rewards. Good field position is being wasted with the wrong option as TO should have hit 60 points.

[ojx]

On 5/19/2017 at 3:24 AM, The Parksider said:

Going back to 14 will split the TV deal 14 ways and reduce TV income for the existing 12 clubs, they will not stand for that and they have said so.

As usual, Parksider delusionally thinks he is a spokesman for the SL clubs.

[kiwis 13 6]

umm errr how about an increased TV deal, French TV deal, Increased Competition Sponsorship... 

[The Parksider]

On 2017-5-19 at 0:13 PM, Hvy wg said:

But here's the kicker : quotas still exists. Everybody is relying on imports. There is not a single team in SL without imports and every team is trying to fill up the quotas spots. Saying the problem for Toulouse is that Catalans are using imports is like saying the problem for London is that Widnes is using imports. 

Nobody wants Toulouse in SL because "they're French". Toulouse in SL is an excellent idea because it's a huge city, an economic stronghold, with a population area 4 times bigger than Perpignan's. 
 

It's not that Catalans use so many imports, it's more that France isn't producing the number of professionals hoped for. On your point if Widnes can overstock their team with imports and fail to compete so can Toulouse.

[The Parksider]

5 hours ago, ojx said:

As usual, Parksider delusionally thinks he is a spokesman for the SL clubs.

I just listen to what THEY say. As usual someone empty headed hasn't the ability to discuss the actual subject.

[barnyia]

Toulouse's game at the summer bash may be being shown on bein sports, but this is just probably because it's being shown on Sky, hopefully they will get good viewing figures! 

[Cowardly Fan]

10 hours ago, The Parksider said:

It's not that Catalans use so many imports, it's more that France isn't producing the number of professionals hoped for. 

There are about 20 French professional players now, even before counting Toulouse.  If you were hoping for 50 then I guess you are right though. 

[Tommygilf]

6 hours ago, Cowardly Fan said:

There are about 20 French professional players now, even before counting Toulouse.  If you were hoping for 50 then I guess you are right though. 

Without a pro elite 1 the RFL route is the only avenue for french players. Hopefully more SL sides will start looking across "la manche".

[Fabou]

On 2017-05-20 at 10:35 PM, oiseau said:

'Naiivity' reared it's head again against Sheffield with some terrible choice of plays at times when a cool head would have brought rewards. Good field position is being wasted with the wrong option as TO should have hit 60 points.

naivity on the field, ok i get it.

[The Parksider]

14 hours ago, Cowardly Fan said:

There are about 20 French professional players now, even before counting Toulouse.  If you were hoping for 50 then I guess you are right though. 

It's not just the number of "professionals".

There are professionals like Sean O'Loughlin and Stephan Ratchford, then there are professionals at Toronto who could not get a game in the Championship.

The difference is vast, and when Catalans import they do it to get the best first choice players they can in each position which they need to do.

Their own professionals are largely the best French professionals but are second choice to imports. Toulouse have to find a competitive Super League team if their entry to SL is not going to be a disaster.

Superleague bosses have said publicly they must develop French players. Even if they didn't do this they would still be scratching around for left over Aussies who didn't go to Leigh or Widnes.

The SL bosses IMHO are right to be saying that if we want to expand the professional game we have to expand the professional player pool and that does not mean paying part timers to be full timers.

It means developing players to a certain professional standard, and this is a headache for Toulouse despite them having a junior game across the region. It's a thumping Migraine for Toronto. 

[oiseau]

2 hours ago, Fabou said:

naivity on the field, ok i get it.

Sylvain said exactly that after the game. "at times players chose the wrong options and wasted chances, patience is needed at times instead of going for glory...." etc etc

[Scubby]

7 hours ago, The Parksider said:

It's not just the number of "professionals".

There are professionals like Sean O'Loughlin and Stephan Ratchford, then there are professionals at Toronto who could not get a game in the Championship.

The difference is vast, and when Catalans import they do it to get the best first choice players they can in each position which they need to do.

So how do you describe the current Champions of SL signing a French player from Catalans and making him their full back and first choice goal kicker? And Roman Navarette playing 4 times for Wigan this season after being signed from Catalans in 2017? Are they not as professional as Sean O'Loughlin and Stefan Ratchford?

Statements like these are coming across and pretty one eyed and borderline something else.

Proper clubs and development clubs? Proper professionals and other professions? What the hell?

[The Parksider]

1 hour ago, Scubby said:

So how do you describe the current Champions of SL signing a French player from Catalans and making him their full back and first choice goal kicker? And Roman Navarette playing 4 times for Wigan this season after being signed from Catalans in 2017? Are they not as professional as Sean O'Loughlin and Stefan Ratchford?

It's a shame the current champions have to sign out of favour French players, and can't find a Wigan lad to play full back. It shows just how deep the quality player shortage is.

Toulouse need to be developing professional players because Ian Lenegan/SL says so not me. Toulouse need to be developing professional quality players to add to the stock of players that a competetive French International team may one day be able to be picked from that could give GB a game.

You conveniently forget, in falling over yourself to disagree that the jewel in the crown of the Anglo-French tie up was always the boost that could give to the International game.

The tie up backfired as Les Catalans concentrated on their own fortunes, and the resurgent International test matches so important to the profile of the game failed.

Do you or your "like this" pals  really think it would be allowed to have two French clubs in SL and still no International tests between the two countries?  Before even Toulouse are in, there are calls for Avignon seemingly just for the sake of it. Read Lenegans lips, they need to develop more quality French professional players.

Do you or your Pals stop to think for a minute that if there were three failing French clubs in SL that would be great for the game? Catalans are getting hammered weekly and have sacked the coach in desperation. Do you think French TV may want to televise French clubs getting hammered every week? Don't you think that TV contract Lenegan needs would be better obtained if France could up the number of quality professionals to be able to offer competitive anglo-french tests to TV?

 

[Bob8]

1 hour ago, Scubby said:

So how do you describe the current Champions of SL signing a French player from Catalans and making him their full back and first choice goal kicker? And Roman Navarette playing 4 times for Wigan this season after being signed from Catalans in 2017? Are they not as professional as Sean O'Loughlin and Stefan Ratchford?

Statements like these are coming across and pretty one eyed and borderline something else.

Proper clubs and development clubs? Proper professionals and other professions? What the hell?

I really do not understand why you bother with him.

[Lowdesert]

37 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

It's a shame the current champions have to sign out of favour French players, and can't find a Wigan lad to play full back. It shows just how deep the quality player shortage is.

Toulouse need to be developing professional players because Ian Lenegan/SL says so not me. Toulouse need to be developing professional quality players to add to the stock of players that a competetive French International team may one day be able to be picked from that could give GB a game.

You conveniently forget, in falling over yourself to disagree that the jewel in the crown of the Anglo-French tie up was always the boost that could give to the International game.

The tie up backfired as Les Catalans concentrated on their own fortunes, and the resurgent International test matches so important to the profile of the game failed.

Do you or your "like this" pals  really think it would be allowed to have two French clubs in SL and still no International tests between the two countries?  Before even Toulouse are in, there are calls for Avignon seemingly just for the sake of it. Read Lenegans lips, they need to develop more quality French professional players.

Do you or your Pals stop to think for a minute that if there were three failing French clubs in SL that would be great for the game? Catalans are getting hammered weekly and have sacked the coach in desperation. Do you think French TV may want to televise French clubs getting hammered every week? Don't you think that TV contract Lenegan needs would be better obtained if France could up the number of quality professionals to be able to offer competitive anglo-french tests to TV?

 

Where all the clippings which say Leneghan has said all these things?

[Scubby]

3 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Where all the clippings which say Leneghan has said all these things?

Right before he signed 2 French players for Wigan's 25-man SL squad.

[DoubleD]

37 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Where all the clippings which say Leneghan has said all these things?

There aren't any clippings but he is the spokesman for Lenegan and the rebels, don't you know?

He's also taught us that Catalans are getting hammered weekly

[Hvy wg]

2 hours ago, The Parksider said:

It's a shame the current champions have to sign out of favour French players, and can't find a Wigan lad to play full back. It shows just how deep the quality player shortage is.

 

 

There is no quality player shortage in Wigan. They have a full squad out and they're still competitive, meaning their U19/Reserves are stacked.

Escaré was signed because he's an excellent player, Navarrete was signed because he's an excellent prospect. They were out of favour not because they're not good but because they had personal problems with the staff.