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They were, as were Hull KR, but those days are gone and only lasted a couple of years so are not a factor in the relative production of youth players. When you're fishing and there aren't many fish in the water, the solution isn't to put more rods in, or even to develop better rods, it is to move to somewhere where there are likely to be far more fish.

It's based on limited aspirations. They look at clubs like Leigh, which have indeed done a good job of getting some more people in their local geography to attend games, and see that as a growth model. Well, it is I suppose, but one with very limited wider value and a low growth ceiling, plus it's inherently vulnerable to changes in local circumstances. But it's what they've settled for as they don't believe the sport is capable of achieving anything else.

This entirely misses the point. The fact those two clubs don’t have competition for miles and miles is the entire point! Rugby league doesn’t need more clubs in the same confined spaces to build participation, anyone in Leigh interested in rugby league has choices and don’t need the Leopards. Anyone in Keighley has access to other elite pathways. Same in Hunslet, and many other places. But the sport has the ability to get more people playing in London and South West France. For minority sports, getting more people playing is key to the mission. The fact you see those clubs strength in that aspect and the strategic advantage it brings us as some sort of “cheating” is precisely the mindset that’s held our sport back for years. It’s not about what makes life better or worse for Leigh relatively, it’s not about any one club… it’s about what’s going to be best for the sport overall.

If you feel insulted by it then why do people think it's ok to denigrate the exact same people doing a much harder job, with much less, in expansion areas... People like me who have spent a lot of time in community clubs in expansion areas often get a "what do you know" attitude on this forum.. or a "how many games do you go to" "how many people so you speak to about this on a regular basis".. and it's all from "heartland fans"... Wonder why people stop bothering??? I don't.

Something about people who put most money in, we are better than you, and oddly Agrarian policy in KwaZulu-Natal Province is apparently enough to suffice...

Just as an example one of the lads I've been coaching for a while at the local union club, and who played league when we set up a summer league team for a few years (see Harry still doing my bit so surely allowed an opinion).. has, this year, signed with Wakefield Academy, born and bred in Sheffield but playing there now, 3-4 other players from the club were asked to go but they were doing a-levels and planning to go to uni so turned it down. However, if there had been more emphasis on this with a better set up in the area, more opportunity, rather than just a couple of ex league players who were coaching at the club (and a DoR who was ex league) who thought it was a good way to get the kids involved and try the game (and keep takings over the bar in the summer etc) then these players could have got into the system earlier. Plus how many just in our club are going through who would fit the mould perfectly. Thats 1 club, 1 club ffs! If the RFL want to get this right they need to do more in expansion areas, there are loads of kids who will end up playing RU who are better suited to RL but really really do not have the chance to even give the game a try because there is nothing in the area..

Club owners have voted for all sorts of stuff (including IMGs recommendations recently) why are you giving them a free pass from criticism on this particular vote?

Yes, this bit made me chuckle. The lack of self-awareness is genuinely staggering.

You're quite a nasty piece of work sometimes. And a hypocrite.

Because we love it. Whereas you only tolerate it when everything goes the way you want it to. Thus, most others on this thread are far truer fans of the game than you will ever be, or ever were.

Who voted on behalf of Salford and what way did they vote?

So just SL owners should have a say in the way the RFL is run... right got it.. and your done with the thread... excellent got it.

As we speak Nigel is just dictating it to Martyn for the latest puff piece.

Exactly. How much mileage really is there in focussing on the heartlands (in whatever loose sense you choose). I'm not sure there are vast swathes of kids in Wigan, Leigh, St Helens and Warrington just waiting to take up the game who haven't done so already. I'm also quite happy that the pro clubs in those towns should be the ones doing the development, for their own ends in terms of fans as much as players. Go outside of those places and it's a numbers game. I'm a firm believer that we should be aiming to concentrate development on clusters where teams can grow and mutually benefit each other. The game simply doesn't have the resources for a scattergun approach and development that dies as soon as a development officer moves on.

Is anybody making that argument? Not me Harry said that so-called expansion clubs hadn’t created many players. I simply pointed out they created more than Leigh. Nobody’s trying to protect an elite. A bunch of clubs with privileged access to the political levers of power in the UK are however trying to drag the sport back to the dark ages, to protect their own, small, local interests at the expense of the game.

Be interesting to see how a few of you spin this vote today. I’m assuming you’ll all be writing in to you're respective clubs to vent your disgust at their backwards, parochial, Pie & Pea thinking.

Tough night against a strong tigers u18s, quick, solid and great ball movement, next game v Newcastle on Saturday, I reckon a few games at this intensity and getting used to the Aussie way of reffing (ruck speed) they could get a lot closer, Great experience for the kids,

So let me get this right. 11 club owners voted on a new Chairman, owners heavily invested in our sport and its future but some people on here think they know better.

He's an expert blagger. He's after a new kitchen off Matt Ellis. A sun deck for his caravan in Brid off degsy. And some part worn tyres for his Micra off Jepson

Dial it down a notch please, folks. Cut out the personal stuff. It’s not and never has been acceptable on TRL. Argue all you like about opinions, but knock it off with the name calling and suchlike. Thanks.

Having clubs investing in off field setups was what the grading was about but it it looks like it might be all thrown out of the window when the first signs that it might be working were showing. IMO we have to get away from the idea that the elite professional level of the game is no different than two amateur sides playing each other in a park.

You're quite happy to cast aspersions on everyone outside the precious heartlands. And yet it is the heartlanders, for all their hard work, who have failed hardest and most frequently. Get a thicker skin if you're going to hurl insults at everyone who doesn't fit the narrow, narrow, narrow vision of what you think rugby league should be.

On a more positive note I’d say that Sundays home support was the best this season, by some way. Also, has anyone noticed there are loads more parents and children attending than ever before - all in their replica kits - the fans of tomorrow? Also, news is out there - I read the press amongst other media info - and people are awakening to the fact that we have a winning team. Expect that to have an ever increasing effect at the turnstiles. Thats without all the work the club do to promote its matches.

Great to see another Leigh thread on here

But this is also just bang wrong. I mean, all those Aussies that we are gonna start recruiting now are not from the Northern Heartlands. Neither are those Kiwi players. Or even those from PNG and Catalans. There is no real logic as to why some people like RL and others don't. People are not hard-wired in some way that makes them prefer 6 tackles versus line-outs. The real difference is exposure, things being embedded in schools, colleges, universities, local village clubs, pubs, community clubs etc. RL just isn't present in most places - that is the main reason people in some places don't appear interested in RL - not because their brain works differently to heartland folk. I don't think we should be doing less in the Heartlands. We should be doing more - we have to do more to stay afloat, but the opportunities for real growth in player pathways is likely to be modest. It's a numbers game, as well as being the best we can in Heartlands, we need to be going where there are opportunities for player development - naturally you would likely focus on Wales, London and France initially as these are already warm to RL and have some form of groundwork already done. But we really should be looking outside of these areas too. A few people have made the point that we need to sow the seeds all over the place and nurture them to grow over the long term. That doesn't mean routing millions away from the heartlands and spending it recklessly elsewhere, but it just can't be accepted when people say to not bother with London because they aren't interested - that just isn't true. In reality, very many of the best RL players in history have not been from the North of England. We can't forget that - there is a whole world outside of the North - we should be looking for the next Jonathan Davies or Martin Offiah all over the place, not just in Warrington, Leigh, Batley or Cas. The problem with a club led board and strategy is that clubs don't really need the above to happen - they can just sign in players from the Aussie league and let them thrive and develop players - but the game here really does need it, especially if we are really focused on developing a successful test team, and growing the game commercially. A club-led strategy and a sport-led strategy can be very very different - IMO, we need a high quality board and leadership team to deliver something that has conflicts - time will tell if this is that board and leadership team.

I've heard that before...

This team as it is, is better than at least 3 current SL teams.

I’ll just assume, based on their track record, that they did it on vibes and didn’t read nor follow anything else. After all, doing that is their publicly stated reason for not knowing what IMG was all about. No one else is going to want to lead English RL now. I’d be stunned if many really want to be involved with it.

If Leigh Leopards were a volleyball club you'd be training liberos.

Oldham will!

Man who threatens to leave rugby league every season if some minor rule change goes ahead says what?

It is thoroughly depressing and sadly all too predictable. I worry we are closer to getting what we may well deserve here.

For me that paragraph was the most depressing of the lot. It's throwing in the towel on trying to grow British rugby league. Even the phrasing gives it away: the clubs who refer to "central revenues" sees it as some sort of distant money spout that they can feed off, rather than one of their own major revenue streams. That paragraph should instead read: "As the Superleague television contract has declined over recent years, we need to find ways to restore, and then further grow, it's value." Which is if course what we were doing with IMG. Instead...away fans. Miserable.

We've had tonnes of great RL players from outside the Heartlands. Some of them have become genuine legends of our sport. You are ignoring facts. Pretty much all of our money throughout history has been spent in the heartlands and we admitted last week we can't develop.enough players for.

You've had the last fifteen years and all of the years from 1895 to 1995. And in the intervening years you had the majority of focus. If the game's declined in the heartlands, it's because of a complete and total failure of the people there in spite of having the most favourable set up for rugby league in the country.

Is there a "groan" emoji for those last two Dad jokes?

They don't work so well in the Conference league.

Is it December already? Have I been in a coma? This sort of thing usually waits to the closed season.

Only in the Bradford area. There's a brilliant recreation of odsal complete with green carpet in the corners and a massive 32 inch big screen.

There's been some proper headloss on social media from Leigh fans over that Charnley clip, and no idea why. I'd understand it more if he was under contract for next year, but he isn't. Sky did him a bit by clipping that bit up for a headline without any of the context of when it was recorded or any of the conversation that led to that. He was originally asked if he had an offer to stay, he said no. Then was asked where he would like to play, he said he just wanted to play Super League. Then after a conversation about his career, starting out at Wigan, being a Wigan fan, his relationship with Sean Wane etc, he was asked what his ideal club would be to finish his career. Of course that would be Wigan. Not sure why he was so confused at not being allowed out on loan, he was one injury away from being in the team. And the reason for dropping him stacks up as well, saying he wasn't getting enough tries. He was something like 1 in 6 games, while the rest of the backs were scoring every other game. His general performance was way below what he's shown in the last two weeks as well. I hope he has extended, but doubt it from Lam's post match interviews at the weekend. One very odd thing from that Bench podcast, was Wilking going on about how players should be allowed to talk to clubs as soon as they hit the last year of their contract, with Charnley nodding along in agreement. They can talk to other clubs can't they? Thought they moved it forward from May to December this season.

Wins for Dolphins, Sharks, Panthers, Raiders, Bulldogs, Storm, Tigers, Warriors. Points. 300 Away wins. 1 Poll. Bulldogs v Dragons

The poster also seems to have forgotten the part Alfie edges played in one of if not the trys of the season. Riley Lumb is a young player who whilst playing really well was also making a fair few mistakes (young players will do that and Im in no way having a go at him) He wouldn't have made any difference on Friday night

True isn`t it. I used to get all my international Rugby League news from a 16-page rag published once a month called Rugby League Review (it wasn`t cheap) until my wife put me onto these League forums five years ago. I`d have read the bloody thing in half an hour. Now with the click of a button I can get the latest League news from all over the world. Crikey, I`m even up to date with Wakefield Trinity submission plans.