Canadian team apply to join Championship 1 (merged threads)

[fieldofclothofgold]

Yes there would be hell on , but I can't imagine this working with par time players.Maybe test the water like has been said above take the WCC or the Magic weekend?

[l'angelo mysterioso]

I have no idea of how serious they are or how much funding they can attract.

What I do know is the enthusiasm they have for sport and rugby in particular. I have been fortunate enough to watch rugby in British Columbia. They absolutely love the game. The folks I spoke with didn't appear divided on the union/league thing either. Most love both and were happy playing either.

Now, watching Fev in the south of France was absolutely fabulous... but BC???

Logistics suggests nigh on impossible but that would be another fabulous experience. ... For me at least.

you've said you've watched the game in British Columbia and in the next paragraph you question peoples' willingness and ability to do the same.

If you are a fan and you can't manage it, then don't, there are those that can't even make it to home games.

You underestimate the ability of professional sporting organisations to do just that be professional sporting organisations. Amateur clubs travel all over the place on tours and to play games. Why can't a pro club? 

There's always a reason why something can't be done.

[MikeFletchersBarmyArmy]

There's a lot of presumptions been thrown about here that these English part time players wouldn't be able to do it or wouldn't want it.

How about the RL ask these players?

I presume clubs would be able to field at least a 80% full strength teams & the players would love an opportunity to do so.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I watched the union results on the news last night, some cup competition. I was jealous to death.

I'm pigged off with being stuck in a corner. I've lived with it nearly all my rugby following life. What pigs me off even more is that people think we can't do anything about it, and what pigs me off even more is that people, think that we shouldn't.

I don't get how this is a response to my post?

[Robin Evans]

There's a lot of presumptions been thrown about here that these English part time players wouldn't be able to do it or wouldn't want it.

How about the RL ask these players?

I presume clubs would be able to field at least a 80% full strength teams & the players would love an opportunity to do so.

I'm also making that similar assumption that players would love that opportunity. Crossing the channel to France for cats and toulouse was hugely successful for players and fans alike.

Going to another continent presents similar challenges but on a whole different scale. Is it workable? Dunno. I'm not experience in making stuff like this happen. The cost I would imagine would be huge. If that isn't an issue and there is an open cheque book.... Then there are the logistics....

Not impossible.... bit improbable I would have thought.

Watching fev at Stanley park would be awesome....

[thundergaz]

Like as been said this would be a great idea if it works. I'm personally sceptical as to wether it will or not. Like some have said about semi pro players being able to have time off from their jobs etc. but my main worry is money. Ok they have said they will pay for away teams travel costs etc but how long will this money last? Theirs no point in them joining like Toulouse did just for a few years. We need evidence/proof from the Canadian team that this will last for at least 10 years. If that can be achieved by all means let them in and hopefully they will play in our elite league one day but until we know their here to stay financially this as to be a pipe dream for now surely.

[nec]

I watched the union results on the news last night, some cup competition. I was jealous to death.

I'm pigged off with being stuck in a corner. I've lived with it nearly all my rugby following life. What pigs me off even more is that people think we can't do anything about it, and what pigs me off even more is that people, think that we shouldn't.

Rugby League - beset by small time thinking since 1896. We had Welsh and London clubs involved way back when but we consciously made life difficult for them because it cost too much to go there and they brought too few fans. We had Yugoslavia and Italy and we didn't nurture them. We pander to the loudest naysayers and create a league structured to appease them rather than boldly seeking to spread the game. The rugby league family can be a unit that makes anyone outside the immediate circle feel quite unwelcome. We either decide to prioritise growth or manage the decline into a kind of clog-wearing shinty for pit villages.

[nec]

By the way, the due diligence suggested to allow the Canadians to spend their own money in our league would see most kpc or kpc1 clubs excluded if it were applied to them

[l'angelo mysterioso]

I don't get how this is a response to my post?

don't worry cock

I was being supportive about going the whole hog

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Rugby League - beset by small time thinking since 1896. We had Welsh and London clubs involved way back when but we consciously made life difficult for them because it cost too much to go there and they brought too few fans. We had Yugoslavia and Italy and we didn't nurture them. We pander to the loudest naysayers and create a league structured to appease them rather than boldly seeking to spread the game. The rugby league family can be a unit that makes anyone outside the immediate circle feel quite unwelcome. We either decide to prioritise growth or manage the decline into a kind of clog-wearing shinty for pit villages.

yes

[bowes]

Rugby League - beset by small time thinking since 1896. We had Welsh and London clubs involved way back when but we consciously made life difficult for them because it cost too much to go there and they brought too few fans. We had Yugoslavia and Italy and we didn't nurture them. We pander to the loudest naysayers and create a league structured to appease them rather than boldly seeking to spread the game. The rugby league family can be a unit that makes anyone outside the immediate circle feel quite unwelcome. We either decide to prioritise growth or manage the decline into a kind of clog-wearing shinty for pit villages.

All that expansion is at risk if we go for obscene ideas like expanding low level semi-professional leagues full of development clubs into intercontinental leagues that clearly on any objective level arent sustainable. It's not for nothing other sports regionalise their game at that level even within this country. The expansion at semi-professional level is ticking along nicely and the last thing the game needs is for it to be ruined by some nonsense idea that will clearly not be viable. It's basic common sense that this sort of plan can't work but some people are so desperate to see expansion they buy into all kinds of nonsense ideas. Catalans in Super League was always going to work, Crusaders never was but this is just so far beyond rational it's not even true

[Northern Sol]

Rugby League - beset by small time thinking since 1896. We had Welsh and London clubs involved way back when but we consciously made life difficult for them because it cost too much to go there and they brought too few fans. We had Yugoslavia and Italy and we didn't nurture them. We pander to the loudest naysayers and create a league structured to appease them rather than boldly seeking to spread the game. The rugby league family can be a unit that makes anyone outside the immediate circle feel quite unwelcome. We either decide to prioritise growth or manage the decline into a kind of clog-wearing shinty for pit villages.

Last time I checked KPC1 had and will have sides from London, Wales (2), the North East, Coventry, Hemel, Oxford and Gloucester but let's retreat to stereotypes about pit villages because it's so much easier than dealing with reality.

 

The reality is that semi-pro sportsmen have a very difficult time getting time off to compete in a national league for fairly small amounts of money. But let's ignore that and just pretend that asking them to fly to Canada is a viable thing and it's just a few small-minded folk holding the game back. Don't imagine that it's only parochial types in Yorkshire, Lancashire and Cumbria that feel that way either - I doubt that the people involved with the expansion clubs feel any differently.

 

One of the reasons why the game has been so poor at expanding is that there is an obsession with "thinking big" and chasing the two birds in the bush. Unfortunately many people need to chase the dream even if it is a false dream. 

[Northern Sol]

I watched the union results on the news last night, some cup competition. I was jealous to death.

I'm pigged off with being stuck in a corner.  I've lived with it nearly all my rugby following life. What pigs me off even more is that people think we can't do anything about it, and what pigs me off even more is that people, think that we shouldn't.

Which union competition has Canadian teams playing within an English semi-pro league?

[Adelaide Tiger]

I'm not sure you're serious here or not??

But teachers just can't rake leave... neither can most nurses. And the self employed would lose money...

of course, you could still be takin the hiss, in which case fair dos owd cock

I am serious me owd cock. Go back to the World Club Challenge in 1997 when all SL teams went to Australia was every player a full time professional? I agree that it might be difficult for a teacher but self employed people do take holidays especially when given months notice.

In the big scheme of things we are talking about 3/4 days leave. I find it difficult to grasp that a semi-pro who in my opinion does it tougher than their full-time counterparts by training and playing whilst holding down a full time job would balk at the opportunity of playing in Canada because they had to take some leave.

[Northern Sol]

how did players manage to go on lengthy Australasian tours before full time professionalism?

One of the main driving instincts of the forces of reaction is why something can't be done, usually with the codicil of 'it's never been done before'

This idea might not come to pass, and if it does it might not work out(just think of the almost limitless opportunities!),

but for crying out loud let's live a little. 

They were paid appropriately and not just fobbed off with "Well it's a free trip, int'it?"

 

If players are being asked to travel to another continent to play a game then it is fair that they are paid for their "broken time" and a one-off game fee that they normally get for a home match just doesn't cut it.

[Northern Sol]

I am serious me owd cock. Go back to the World Club Challenge in 1997 when all SL teams went to Australia was every player a full time professional? I agree that it might be difficult for a teacher but self employed people do take holidays especially when given months notice.

They do but on the other hand there is quite a lot of travelling with KPC1 already. Taking a holiday to play in an away game is something that I imagine that players already do when a Cumbrian / Tyneside team travels to the South East (or vice versa). I don't really know how many days they have left, you know they have family commitments as well.

[Northern Sol]

I am serious me owd cock. Go back to the World Club Challenge in 1997 when all SL teams went to Australia was every player a full time professional? I agree that it might be difficult for a teacher but self employed people do take holidays especially when given months notice.

I think it's fair to say that there is a different player expectation at SL and KPC1 level. A fair number of grassroots players choose to play in the lower leagues because they have fairly lucrative jobs that they don't want to give up. SL players have chosen to play at the top level and are rather more willing to make appropriate sacrifices - for one thing you can be sure that they were on more money than a KPC1 player gets. 

[Adelaide Tiger]

If they are prepared to spend big like they say,why not go the whole hog and apply to be fastracked into SL?

Because the people behind the bid appear to have thought it through.

They know their standard of play and ability of players. If they went straight into SL they would get hammered and possibly walk away. They are prepared to take small steps to build a sustainable club and have finance to help them achieve their initial aim.

The idea of a trial run should be discussed whereby they visit for a 5/6 week period and play friendlies. If timed correctly they could play teams that have been knocked out if the cup or an England under 23 team, the Lionhearts etc. The RFL and the Canadian people could then look at all pros and cons prior to making a decision.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Which union competition has Canadian teams playing within an English semi-pro league?

none of them

Union is ambitious and adventurous.

The point was that we aren't.

 

There's irony in there somewhere.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

They were paid appropriately and not just fobbed off with "Well it's a free trip, int'it?"

 

If players are being asked to travel to another continent to play a game then it is fair that they are paid for their "broken time" and a one-off game fee that they normally get for a home match just doesn't cut it.

You miss the point entirely.

part time players went to the other side of the world to play extensive tours. 

They had jobs. R Evans made the point that current part time players can't do this because they have jobs. It was possible for the biggest part of rugby league history for players to do this now all of a sudden it isn't. I don't think anyone has suggested that players should offer their services for free.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Last time I checked KPC1 had and will have sides from London, Wales (2), the North East, Coventry, Hemel, Oxford and Gloucester but let's retreat to stereotypes about pit villages because it's so much easier than dealing with reality.

 

The reality is that semi-pro sportsmen have a very difficult time getting time off to compete in a national league for fairly small amounts of money. But let's ignore that and just pretend that asking them to fly to Canada is a viable thing and it's just a few small-minded folk holding the game back. Don't imagine that it's only parochial types in Yorkshire, Lancashire and Cumbria that feel that way either - I doubt that the people involved with the expansion clubs feel any differently.

 

One of the reasons why the game has been so poor at expanding is that there is an obsession with "thinking big" and chasing the two birds in the bush. Unfortunately many people need to chase the dream even if it is a false dream. 

and it's taken until 2014 for that to happen despite the grunts of 'therduntwannernaw' from the 'heartlands'. 

It's bit of an indictment that having teams from these parts of the country playing in the lowest pro competition is something to boast about. 

[The Parksider]

 It's basic common sense that this sort of plan can't work but some people are so desperate to see expansion they buy into all kinds of nonsense ideas. Catalans in Super League was always going to work, Crusaders never was......

 

Change the record, Crusaders was always going to work as long as enough money was put behind it. Jeez Bradford stopped working once the money ran out so let's abandon Bradford as unworkable, Catalans works because the money is there.

 

It's always about money whether the semi pros can't afford to provide the opposition the Canadians need whether that be the clubs travel costs or the players personal finance in terms of their jobs, or alternatively the Canadians can't afford to buy and service an antipodean team to give the SL clubs a game. 

 

People want to buy into expansion because they care for the game but sadly wether it's Crusaders or South Wales Scorpions going nowhere doesn't matter, what matters is finding the money. The minute your into any element of professionalism it becomes all about money.

[bowes]

Crusaders was never going to work because Leighton Samuels had already killed off 3 pro sports clubs

[l'angelo mysterioso]

All that expansion is at risk if we go for obscene ideas like expanding low level semi-professional leagues full of development clubs into intercontinental leagues that clearly on any objective level arent sustainable. It's not for nothing other sports regionalise their game at that level even within this country. The expansion at semi-professional level is ticking along nicely and the last thing the game needs is for it to be ruined by some nonsense idea that will clearly not be viable. It's basic common sense that this sort of plan can't work but some people are so desperate to see expansion they buy into all kinds of nonsense ideas. Catalans in Super League was always going to work, Crusaders never was but this is just so far beyond rational it's not even true

I think being desperate to see expansion is a good thing. Our lack of such desperation over the last century or so has been ruinous.

 

But that isn't what is happening here. All that is happening and I find it rather refreshing, is that people are looking at something can be made to work, what the good things about it are how feasible it is rather than why it's unfair, or pie in the sky or whatever. Well some people are doing that, some aren't.

[bowes]

and it's taken until 2014 for that to happen despite the grunts of 'therduntwannernaw' from the 'heartlands'.

It's bit of an indictment that having teams from these parts of the country playing in the lowest pro competition is something to boast about.

Totally pathetic. Why should the people working hard to expand the game be ashamed just because they didn't do it sooner? It seems you don't value sustainable expansion just nonsensical overambitious ideas doomed to failure