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Giving up and preparing for the middle 8's


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Posted

So last year we were told this was an obvious flaw with the new system and that it would happen every year. You were made to feel stupid if you hadnt seen that the bottom teams wouldnt bother in rds 1to23 for them to focus on 24 to 30 in the middle 8s.

So, why is this obvious flaw not presrnt this year? Even Salford with a 6 point deduction are still going all out for top 8.

Of course there may be an argument that Leeds are not really trying but I wouldnt make that claim as they play my team on friday! :biggrin:

So, if that was a major flaw, was an absolute certainty and a major reason why the new system was a farce, what do those people say now? Has anybody changed their mind on that aspect?

Personally im finding the table fascinating this year and some of tge criticism is going unfounded.


Posted

I agree Dave and I have really enjoyed the middle 8s so far. My only concern is that with the likes of Leeds, Hudd and Salford potentially in it, there may be little chance of a team getting promoted, which will give the neigh-Sayers more amo. However, no one could have anticipated Hudd and Leeds being down there, and most wouldn't have expected Salford to be so silly, so even if Leigh don't make it (and they still could pip Widnes or Hull KR for me), I think it will be very much a good system and should be judged in 2017 when hopefully the league table will be a tad more normal

Posted

I think the lack of relegation could become an issue if we go for a sustained period with none - say 5 years, but for starters conpetitiveness is important. We did see one scalp taken last year plua some cracking games plus the mpg went down to the last minute, for me it did everything but that final bit of p&r but im ok with that as this is not a guaranteed system.

If the sl clubs start to pull away over the next few years then we maybe need to review and tweak, but we cant sulk if the results go one way, just as we should continue playing France and we shoild continue with the WCS.

Posted

Given the state of mind in Leeds rooms... with, allegedly, Hardaker and Watkins wanting out.

I don't think Middle 8s will be easy this year. Leigh and London won't go down without a fight and Leeds at the moment do not seem to keen on one. 



 

Posted

Talking of the Middle Eights, remember who won the last time Leeds played London Broncos? ;)

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Posted

Sky's ideal scenario would be Leeds v Bradford in the MPG at a packed Headingley, that's proper wet dream territory for them.

I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally

Posted

Given the state of mind in Leeds rooms... with, allegedly, Hardaker and Watkins wanting out.

I don't think Middle 8s will be easy this year. Leigh and London won't go down without a fight and Leeds at the moment do not seem to keen on one.

Wrong players.

Thank you for your valuable contribution.

Posted

Actually last year it was really only one club that "rested" until the middle 8

The rest fought hard to get into the 8 iirc

Same situation, all but one club are fighting to stay in the top 8

Posted

Actually last year it was really only one club that "rested" until the middle 8

The rest fought hard to get into the 8 iirc

Same situation, all but one club are fighting to stay in the top 8

 

Who then?

Definitely heard Hardaker and Watkins.

Small fish in a large pond.Not the big fish.

Thank you for your valuable contribution.

Posted

Actually last year it was really only one club that "rested" until the middle 8

The rest fought hard to get into the 8 iirc

Same situation, all but one club are fighting to stay in the top 8

i dont even think there was one last year. Webster's comments read to me as a defence of his team's shonky performances. His Chairman didnt suppory his view and sacked him. Wakey certainly looked like they were trying for the rest of the year and are certainly trying this year.
Posted

I never ever thought the 3 X 8 scenario was a bad one and now it appears the middle and top 8's are going to get really competitive now its all bedded in

 

The lower 8 is the issue and that's got to be addressed somehow but not sure what you could actually do with it!

 

Bradford v Leeds at Odsal on a Saturday evening, Leeds in the bottom 2 will only have 3 home games so this is a possibility, cant wait for that one!

 

In fact if I was Hetherington the cheque book would have been out weeks ago and a real concerted effort to get to 8th would have been on the agenda as its really obvious Leeds in the Middle 8's would be the one team everyone would want to beat - from champions to million pound game contenders in one year - wow!

 

Leigh would all want that one scalp as would Batley or Halifax or whoever joins them, and as a home match may well be on the cards for them the Rhinos will have a hell of a torrid time in every match

 

So the middle 8's may well be more exciting - some would say again! - this year than the ride to Old Trafford

Posted

Just who would Hetherington buy? Which players are available?

It's all well and good saying get the chequebook out but no good if quality players aren't available.

Thank you for your valuable contribution.

Posted

So last year we were told this was an obvious flaw with the new system and that it would happen every year. You were made to feel stupid if you hadnt seen that the bottom teams wouldnt bother in rds 1to23 for them to focus on 24 to 30 in the middle 8s.

So, why is this obvious flaw not presrnt this year? Even Salford with a 6 point deduction are still going all out for top 8.

Of course there may be an argument that Leeds are not really trying but I wouldnt make that claim as they play my team on friday! :biggrin:

So, if that was a major flaw, was an absolute certainty and a major reason why the new system was a farce, what do those people say now? Has anybody changed their mind on that aspect?

Personally im finding the table fascinating this year and some of tge criticism is going unfounded.

 

I was one of those who feared this. I have enjoyed how the Super League has been unpredictable this year. However, it does feel like the standards are levelling down rather than those also-rans suddenly becoming stronger. Those WCS games were haunting in the way we got spanked.

 

We have to decide whether we want an entertaining lower standard SL - if so the 3x8 is your man. If you want quality then you probably have to condense and make things less chaotic and more long term.

Posted

Actually last year it was really only one club that "rested" until the middle 8

The rest fought hard to get into the 8 iirc

Same situation, all but one club are fighting to stay in the top 8

This.....and come the million quid game, leeds and Bradford players will both be on a beach somewhere.......Leigh v hudds I reckon.
Posted

Would love a Leigh v Leeds game at LSV 3pm on a Sunday in August. 8k plus and a real occasion, even when we lose.

 

Real fantasy island stuff.  The bit about Leigh losing.

This world was never meant for one as beautiful as me.
 
 
Wakefield Trinity RLFC
2012 - 2014 "The wasted years"

2013, 2014 & 2015 Official Magic Weekend "Whipping Boys"

2017 - The year the dream disappeared under Grix's left foot.

2018 - The FinniChezz Bromance 

2019 - The Return of the Prodigal Son

 

 

Posted

So last year we were told this was an obvious flaw with the new system and that it would happen every year. You were made to feel stupid if you hadnt seen that the bottom teams wouldnt bother in rds 1to23 for them to focus on 24 to 30 in the middle 8s.

So, why is this obvious flaw not presrnt this year? Even Salford with a 6 point deduction are still going all out for top 8.

Of course there may be an argument that Leeds are not really trying but I wouldnt make that claim as they play my team on friday! :biggrin:

So, if that was a major flaw, was an absolute certainty and a major reason why the new system was a farce, what do those people say now? Has anybody changed their mind on that aspect?

Personally im finding the table fascinating this year and some of tge criticism is going unfounded.

I think everyone answered apart from the people you aimed this at, Dave.

 

Any new system will take time to become loved by its owners "the fans", - and this is true until any change to it becomes problematic for them.

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

Posted

I was one of those who feared this. I have enjoyed how the Super League has been unpredictable this year. However, it does feel like the standards are levelling down rather than those also-rans suddenly becoming stronger. Those WCS games were haunting in the way we got spanked.

 

We have to decide whether we want an entertaining lower standard SL - if so the 3x8 is your man. If you want quality then you probably have to condense and make things less chaotic and more long term.

The WCS in 2015 had two extremely close games - one that went to extra time. The three SL clubs who took part in 2016 were Wigan (less than convincing for most of this year), then Leeds and St Helens, whose shocking form against all the SL clubs has been the story of the year, so not just against the NRL visitors.

 

As for also-rans, it must be hard to deny that Wakefield have stepped up their act. Salford look less wobbly than they have in years, if not decades. Then Widnes had a seriously hot streak for several months before their current dip. Even Hull KR might still pull their act together if they can get a good run of games with the majority of their first-choice players.

 

Warrington, Hull FC and Castleford all look better than they did last year.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Posted

The WCS in 2015 had two extremely close games - one that went to extra time. The three SL clubs who took part in 2016 were Wigan (less than convincing for most of this year), then Leeds and St Helens, whose shocking form against all the SL clubs has been the story of the year, so not just against the NRL visitors.

 

As for also-rans, it must be hard to deny that Wakefield have stepped up their act. Salford look less wobbly than they have in years, if not decades. Then Widnes had a seriously hot streak for several months before their current dip. Even Hull KR might still pull their act together if they can get a good run of games with the majority of their first-choice players.

 

Warrington, Hull FC and Castleford all look better than they did last year.

 

Yep, agree with a lot of that. But you've kind of answered my point with what you said about the WCS. Yes, Saints and Wigan are struggling but they are still well within a chance of top spot. One has been cained by 62 and the other shipped 40-odd twice in three weeks.

 

Wakefield have improved as have a few other clubs - ultimately creating a glut of fair to average clubs across SL. This is perfect if you have an exciting 3x8 system that relies on fluctuation. Not so great if you want to build some very strong elite clubs who can hold their own outside SL.

 

As I said, I have enjoyed the different feel to this year's competition. I would be thrilled if we had a new name on the trophy in October. However, come February it is likely to be another spankfest sadly. I don't think anyone can argue that the level of SL has dropped off quite a bit in recent years.

Posted

The only way for us to win a game would be a Catalans game at Perpignan. With every players firing. And the home-soil syndrome we had last year. 

But even then... 

 

Posted

I think everyone answered apart from the people you aimed this at, Dave.

Any new system will take time to become loved by its owners "the fans", - and this is true until any change to it becomes problematic for them.

tbf Scubby has acknowledged his concerns.

My post was slightly mischievous, but that was due to the point blank refusal of a couple of people last year to let the system flush through, we were aggressively told why it was going to flop and this issue was so obvious. I do think ot is an interesting discussion point though.

Of course, we will see what happens over the next few years, it may thrive or it may bomb due to something we havent even considered yet.

Posted

I was one of those who feared this. I have enjoyed how the Super League has been unpredictable this year. However, it does feel like the standards are levelling down rather than those also-rans suddenly becoming stronger. Those WCS games were haunting in the way we got spanked.

We have to decide whether we want an entertaining lower standard SL - if so the 3x8 is your man. If you want quality then you probably have to condense and make things less chaotic and more long term.

its an interesting point though scubby. The discussion last year was that the top 8 would get better and pull away as they were playing each other, and the bottom four would get worse as they play lower teams. That doesnt appear to have happened although there is some merit in the logic.

Based on that it is difficult to say that this system caused any dumbing down as it goes against the logic, that is if you agree there is a lowering at all, my personal view is not that.

There is an argument that making more games count in the regular rounds should really improve competitiveness as opposed to lowering standards.

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