Halifax in trouble?

[The Parksider]

Parksider in made up fact shock which is used to attack the current structure - SHOCK

 

Ah another one who never gets the RL press but is happy to freeload on League Expresses forums.

 

Then once on the forum talks off the top of his hat, and when corrected by the news and reports in the RL press, or the facts and the figures he doesn't read in the League Express yearbooks, get's all uppity.

 

The only way out of this embarrassment is to then shoot the messenger, and once the messenger passes on the fact that all this is in the RL press courtesy of the Editors and Journos's then will decry the very people who provide him this forum.

 

What does that Martyn Sadler and his team know?? Or that Danny Lockwood and his team, or Tim Butcher or Daniel Spencer....

 

No more, and probably less than that great font of RL knowledge Lee.F.

[LeeF]

Ah another one who never gets the RL press but is happy to freeload on League Expresses forums.

Then once on the forum talks off the top of his hat, and when corrected by the news and reports in the RL press, or the facts and the figures he doesn't read in the League Express yearbooks, get's all uppity.

The only way out of this embarrassment is to then shoot the messenger, and once the messenger passes on the fact that all this is in the RL press courtesy of the Editors and Journos's then will decry the very people who provide him this forum.

What does that Martyn Sadler and his team know?? Or that Danny Lockwood and his team, or Tim Butcher or Daniel Spencer....

No more, and probably less than that great font of RL knowledge Lee.F.

Yawn

You see whilst I do read I don't believe everything I read

After all it's not me that continues to post the same rubbish despite being proven wrong

Oh and try and get my name correct or is that level of accuracy beyond you

[Saint Toppy]

There's lots of people here posting about the Championship clubs receiving the same £1.8M funding as the SL clubs - Where exactly is that money going to come from ?

The RFL - er no, they don't have the cash

Sky TV - er no, they aren't interested in televising the championship now even though they could for next to nothing, so what makes you think they'll pay every club £1.8M to televise their games

Sponsorship - er no, SL struggles to get major sponsors so the championship has no chance of attracting one that will enable them to receive £1.8M a year each

 

Maybe you somehow think the TV money should be shared equally across all the leagues ? If that's the case your living in a dream world as most SL clubs would just walk away taking all the TV money & sponsorship with them leaving the RFL with absolutely nothing. If that happens pretty much every Championship club would be dead & buried within a year with no funding at all.

 

So all of you advocating £1.8M funding for all championship clubs, please explain where the money is going to come from ?

[Dave T]

There's lots of people here posting about the Championship clubs receiving the same £1.8M funding as the SL clubs - Where exactly is that money going to come from ?

The RFL - er no, they don't have the cash

Sky TV - er no, they aren't interested in televising the championship now even though they could for next to nothing, so what makes you think they'll pay every club £1.8M to televise their games

Sponsorship - er no, SL struggles to get major sponsors so the championship has no chance of attracting one that will enable them to receive £1.8M a year each

 

Maybe you somehow think the TV money should be shared equally across all the leagues ? If that's the case your living in a dream world as most SL clubs would just walk away taking all the TV money & sponsorship with them leaving the RFL with absolutely nothing. If that happens pretty much every Championship club would be dead & buried within a year with no funding at all.

 

So all of you advocating £1.8M funding for all championship clubs, please explain where the money is going to come from ?

I don't think I have read that point by anybody. I don't think anybody has said to give 24 teams £1.8m but I may have missed it.

[Saint Toppy]

I don't think I have read that point by anybody. I don't think anybody has said to give 24 teams £1.8m but I may have missed it.

boro hornet (post 31), which was also liked by guess who, blind side johnny, ben giles.

That's at least 4 who have contributed to this thread who think the championship should receive equal funding

[LeytherRob]

boro hornet (post 31), which was also liked by guess who, blind side johnny, ben giles.

That's at least 4 who have contributed to this thread who think the championship should receive equal funding

I think you may have jumped the gun there as I'm pretty sure was saying all championship teams should get the same as each other, not the SL teams. It was part of the discussion on the sliding scale of champ payments. Which is a fair enough point

[thepimp007]

Back on the subject of fax from an outsiders point of view I've always found it crazy that the rugby and football club always seem to be at odds rather than pulling in the same direction, both at administration and fan level. Maybe it's because we don't have a football club in Leigh anymore but always been confused how 2 teams playing 2 completely different sports representing the same town can't find common ground. I know it's the case for other clubs too.

 

I work with a Halifax football fan the hatred for each other is crazy. The football club believe the rugby club dont pay rent properly or on time and have big arrears where as the football club is up to date. It also stems from the building of the new stand which the council and Halifax football trust put money into, yet the money promised from the rugby club never materialised. Thats the story he gives anyway

[thepimp007]

Why not give all clubs in Championship the same RFL payout. Teams that want to go for Super League would then have to raise the extra money themselves. Well run clubs will be able to move forward others can build a sustainable club to move forward when ready.

 

Best post in here

[Dave T]

boro hornet (post 31), which was also liked by guess who, blind side johnny, ben giles.

That's at least 4 who have contributed to this thread who think the championship should receive equal funding

LeytherRob addresses this below.

 

In any case, there is no mention of £1.8m that you claimed 'a lot of people on here' were wanting.

[sweaty craiq]

You set a plan based upon where you want to be. Licensing had failed and the second tier was part time and failing. The RFL/Sky wanted a shake up off the bottom clubs that forced them to raise their game by challenging clubs in the second tier to grow their business into FT, financially growing concerns that would challenge the bottom SL clubs.

Funding improved to all non SL clubs as part of the deal don't forget, with position dictating the level, unfortunately only one club seized the opportunity presented and the club most capable did not have the man at the top willing to drive the vision.

Sport is not a charity, most championship clubs would have taken the money to pay back debts not grow the sport, but the championship needs to be FT to challenge SL something it's fans are not interested in financing in sufficient numbers in the main, unlike its soccer counterpart

This is why two tens in SL is essential, and the championship becomes fully PT again

[Adeybull]

Seems to me, most people are either missing - or (understandably) trying to avoid the essential truth?

 

The issue is clearly a serious lack of money across the game, right?

 

I'd say that is more of a symptom than a cause! The REAL issue is far, far too few people are going to watch their team play. Far too few younsgsters and families on the terraces, where the fanbase at so many clubs is increasingly the older die-hards.

 

And it is a terrble, vicious circle. Fewer supporters = less income (gates, sponsorship, corporate) = worse squads & worse facilities = worse performance & worse spectator experience = fewer supporters...

 

The only way all but the upper echelons of SL can advance - or in some cases survive - is through the largesse of a dedicated and generous (or daft!) fan owner.  Leigh showed how it is done. But outside of the owner, the opportunities for these "other" income streams that some people seem to demand those clubs somehow "find" are extremely limited.

 

All the argument seems to be about how to divvy up a cake that is already far too small. Some who recognise the problem argue that it is up to clubs to go out and bake a bigger cake, but rarely have practical proposals for how to do it "that is for the club owners, not me". (And I have sod all ideas either).

 

Getting thousands more bums on seats, feet on terraces would transform the situation, from Salford to Sheffield to Swinton to South Wales.  And of course for the likes of Bradford. Absent that - and I have few ideas how it can be achieved, as Koukash and Davy have discovered - IMO the problem is only likely to get worse.

[buford t justice]

Its a case of bad management and not using the prize money from the top 4 finish in 2015 wisely.

 

I think Halifax, and Bradford to some degree banked on making the top 4 again and had no plan B.

[nadera78]

You set a plan based upon where you want to be. Licensing had failed and the second tier was part time and failing. The RFL/Sky wanted a shake up off the bottom clubs that forced them to raise their game by challenging clubs in the second tier to grow their business into FT, financially growing concerns that would challenge the bottom SL clubs.

Funding improved to all non SL clubs as part of the deal don't forget, with position dictating the level, unfortunately only one club seized the opportunity presented and the club most capable did not have the man at the top willing to drive the vision.

Sport is not a charity, most championship clubs would have taken the money to pay back debts not grow the sport, but the championship needs to be FT to challenge SL something it's fans are not interested in financing in sufficient numbers in the main, unlike its soccer counterpart

This is why two tens in SL is essential, and the championship becomes fully PT again

Where do we get the resources for 2x10?

 

For a start, and this is key for a product we expect people to pay to watch, we barely have the players for 1x10. And what about the other resources we need - investors, corporate support, broadcast and media interest, fans, etc, etc?  

[LeytherRob]

Its a case of bad management and not using the prize money from the top 4 finish in 2015 wisely.

I think Halifax, and Bradford to some degree banked on making the top 4 again and had no plan B.

No plan B is what it boils down to, as a Leigh fan one of the things that gave me the most comfort this season was a column in the local paper from Matthew chantler our ceo, where he outlined the fact that despite Beaumont not planning on pulling out anytime soon, the board still had a plan b and c in place so that even if the worst did happen the club would at least be able to see out 2017 and most of the squads contracts before cost cutting would have to occur. It's good to have a benefactor, but it's much more reassuring when the board know it won't last forever and are actively growing other income streams to ease the reliance.

[Adeybull]

No plan B is what it boils down to, as a Leigh fan one of the things that gave me the most comfort this season was a column in the local paper from Matthew chantler our ceo, where he outlined the fact that despite Beaumont not planning on pulling out anytime soon, the board still had a plan b and c in place so that even if the worst did happen the club would at least be able to see out 2017 and most of the squads contracts before cost cutting would have to occur. It's good to have a benefactor, but it's much more reassuring when the board know it won't last forever and are actively growing other income streams to ease the reliance.

What happens when the "Board" is effectively one man? And there is no-one else with any money, authority or power involved?

[LeytherRob]

What happens when the "Board" is effectively one man? And there is no-one else with any money, authority or power involved?

One man can't run a rugby club

[Adeybull]

One man can't run a rugby club

Or own one?

[LeytherRob]

Or own one?

Of course one can own one

[Bulldog Days]

I work with a Halifax football fan the hatred for each other is crazy. The football club believe the rugby club dont pay rent properly or on time and have big arrears where as the football club is up to date. It also stems from the building of the new stand which the council and Halifax football trust put money into, yet the money promised from the rugby club never materialised. Thats the story he gives anyway

Halifax have been in and out of financial crises since 1999, coincidentally since they vacated the old Thrum Hall ground and went into bed with the football side of the town and the local authority in the form of the redeveloped Shay Stadium. They had a healthy boost from the Thrum Hall trustees of £1.1m in 2001/2 from the sale to Asda , and since then at eas of financial responsibility regarding the main stand and the rent share of the ground have been very blurred, and over the years legal threats and counter threats have been common in this sad scenario.

I am surprised that Michael Steele, the Fax Chairman and former lawyer, has been unable to unravel this situation and resolve a legal and financial 'straight edge' on behalf of his Club, as he appears to be a decent individual.

[Adeybull]

Of course one can own one

The I ask the question again: What happens when the "Board" is effectively one man? And there is no-one else with any money, authority or power involved?  Since that is often the case where one man owns a club.  You said "One man can't run a rugby club".  Which is absolutely correct.  But if one man owns it, then that is nevertheless what can end up happening.

 

But you said the fault with various other clubs was no Plan B (probably correct), and said that reagrding Leigh "but it's much more reassuring when the board know it won't last forever and are actively growing other income streams to ease the reliance."

 

The clear implication of that and your subsequent comments is that if you have a single owner, who ultimately calls all the shots, and that single owner's plan does not succeed, then your club is stuffed.  Since there is nobody else with any financial or other power who CAN come up with and initiate any plan B.

 

So what your comment REALLY boiled down to is no-one to fall back on if the single owner's plans do not succeed.  Not "No Plan B", but "No Owner B".  And unfortunately, there can only ever be one person responsible for that situation.  No point blaming "the club".

[Padge]

Seems to me, most people are either missing - or (understandably) trying to avoid the essential truth?

 

The issue is clearly a serious lack of money across the game, right?

 

I'd say that is more of a symptom than a cause! The REAL issue is far, far too few people are going to watch their team play. Far too few younsgsters and families on the terraces, where the fanbase at so many clubs is increasingly the older die-hards.

 

And it is a terrble, vicious circle. Fewer supporters = less income (gates, sponsorship, corporate) = worse squads & worse facilities = worse performance & worse spectator experience = fewer supporters...

 

The only way all but the upper echelons of SL can advance - or in some cases survive - is through the largesse of a dedicated and generous (or daft!) fan owner.  Leigh showed how it is done. But outside of the owner, the opportunities for these "other" income streams that some people seem to demand those clubs somehow "find" are extremely limited.

 

All the argument seems to be about how to divvy up a cake that is already far too small. Some who recognise the problem argue that it is up to clubs to go out and bake a bigger cake, but rarely have practical proposals for how to do it "that is for the club owners, not me". (And I have sod all ideas either).

 

Getting thousands more bums on seats, feet on terraces would transform the situation, from Salford to Sheffield to Swinton to South Wales.  And of course for the likes of Bradford. Absent that - and I have few ideas how it can be achieved, as Koukash and Davy have discovered - IMO the problem is only likely to get worse.

 

Good post

 

My mantra has always been that it is about money. 

 

The RFL and the SL clubs need to realise that what they have to concentrate on is raising the profile of the game. Only by raising the profile will you start to see more and better sponsorship. There have been some signs of this starting to happen, a big push around Manchester for the GF and some well targeted radio interviews in the run up (Sinfield seemed to be everywhere). Adverts on the tube in London for the upcoming international series.

 

Unfortunately the RFL's track record on this sort of thing is poor, if they don't see instant results there is a tendency to ditch things. They need to stick at it and the clubs need to play their part, making players and coaches available for anything and everything they possibly can.

[sweaty craiq]

The great thing about the behind the scenes at Leigh is that if Derek hit on hard times I believe we have plenty willing to come in to share the burden, the place is bouncing in corporate.

[bamfordsbeans]

The likes of Lenegan who complain of the size of the funding to Championship clubs are better off turning their attentions to their own clubs.

With their performances on the pitch we should not see so many empty seats at their home matches-and their away support is a fraction of what it used to be.

[longboard]

Yup. Money is key.

 

Tinkering with promotion and relegation arrangements doesn't resolve the sport's lack of money.

[Padge]

The likes of Lenegan who complain of the size of the funding to Championship clubs are better off turning their attentions to their own clubs.

With their performances on the pitch we should not see so many empty seats at their home matches-and their away support is a fraction of what it used to be.

 

Do you mean by having the best conveyor belt of talent in rugby, by having its own sports education centre that is classed as excellent by Ofsted, do you mean by having a business club and an office in London to get at better sponsors, do you mean by providing expertise at corporate events to get the club and the game better known for its highly talented and committed people or do you mean being constantly one of the best supported clubs in the game.

 

If some clubs did 20% of what Wigan do we would be in far better health as a game overall.