Swinton away - - - - Sunday - - - - - Sale

[OLD YED]

19 minutes ago, Sapere aude said:

I disagree, CH is in every position to make demands.

Let's assume there is no money man and we go down a supporters club route which I think you are suggesting? What is it that you and RO think you could be doing differently? (Genuine question) I don't subscribe to this view that if you dethrone CH then roughed supporters will come out of the woodwork in their droves- it won't happen. So I'm interested to know, what it is you are offering if not money?

Also, Ive asked the question previously but what do RO do? There is no website

 

Jesus ive heard it all now.

You CH by any chance?

[Sapere aude]

Just now, OLD YED said:

Jesus ive heard it all now.

You CH by any chance?

He owns the club!

[HomeOfTheTubularBandage]

I explained earlier that RO are the registered supporters trust (each club/area is only allowed one). So, any Membership trust bid to buy or relaunch a club must come through them or involve them in a consortium approach.

The membershio approach would raise additional annual funds through different membership levels. The more you pay the higher your membership level and the more votes you get. For example - Foundation membership £1000, Gold £250, Silver £150, Bronze £75, junior membership £50. The club would be run by a Board elected from the members. The board would appoint a commercial manager and a rugby manager who run the club day to day.

A commercial manager has a performance related salary scale the more profile and cash generated the more money he/she gets. Repeated failure to meet these targets results in dismissal.

I believe there would be a significant increase in gates and memberships if fans felt they had a stake in the club and real influence through votes at AGMs and on major individual issues. Many people would return if there was a change in leadership. Still more would return if the team played in the borough. The combined impact of these measures could see gates increase, despite relegation, rather than decrease. 

[tandle]

a simple question how much money are any of you prepared to invest I will put £10.000 in come on now and match it.

[HomeOfTheTubularBandage]

What, to give to the club as it stands now?

£0.00

Thats just chucking money into a debt hole for zero influence.

[Sapere aude]

Hottb, thanks for response and an interesting idea if it ever gets traction.

what is it that RO do though? I understand what they are and their role in any future membership bid but are they just a dormant entity the rest of the time?

[tandle]

you keep talking mention money and zilch.

[roughyed34]

I thought long and hard about posting on the CH/club debate but for what is worth here is my point of view.

We clearly have two factions with a common aim, those that go at present and those that have lapsed for various reasons. Clearly there are different points of view and all have valid points to make (even if we all find them unpalatable). The first thing we really should be doing is trying to unite EVERYONE who has an interest in ORLFC,meeting up,forming some sort of "Fans Group" and debating all the points which we all have. Perhaps then with everyone on the same page the animosity is diluted.

CH does the best he can as a one man band, this season's relegation can't be levelled at him. As Scott Naylor said,it was his fault and the players and that group alone that failed. CH said last season at presentation night that he gave Scott more money to recruit and this was shown in the signings of Tyson,Neal,Leatherbarrow,Hewitt etc.

On the terraces believe me,most people are aware of CH's shortcomings but as has been said before we still go to support the team not the regime.

The supporters trust idea is one that I feel most fans would contribute to, the issue is when would the monies from the "investors" actually be enough to sustain a club and be accepted as a viable business from the RFL? If people had to pay in over 12 months say, it would take at least that time before enough would be in the pot to start. I can't see that enough people would have a spare grand to pay upfront.What happens in the "fallow" year?

A members club is definitely the way forward in my opinion,how that is implemented is my concern.

At present we have a club,if CH folds it then there are no guarantees of having another ORLFC being born from the wreckage.

Maybe there is a hint of better the devil you know in that attitude, it's not the answer long term I know. 

Whatever happens I think we all want Oldham playing in Oldham with a solid foundation and long term future, no matter what division we are in, is that achievable I don't know, the cinicism aimed at some previous efforts at talking to CH are born from the fact that sometimes for the fans on the terraces it's incredibly frustrating that we hear from some quarters that there are thousands of fans in Oldham that would go if there was a regime/ground change. Are there really that many people actually interested in pro/semi pro rugby in Oldham these days? That's not a go at anyone just a simple fact that people have drifted away from the game generally and nowhere is that more apparent than in Oldham. Very few kids go to the matches,no disrespect but we have a ageing fanbase.

The problems lie deeper than just a regime/ground change, we need to get people excited about Oldham RLFC again and rekindle the enthusiasm of those that have drifted. To actually get 2000 people or more of all ages through the gates is a massive ask. Maybe changing the regime/ground would encourage more to go,I certainly hope it would. 

Financially the game is precarious, £70000 funding in Champ 1 is not a lot of money to run a club,nor is £150000 in the Champ. Money has to be made from outside that via any means possible. Merchandise,a proper supporters club,connections with local business. These are all things that CH fails in,but as I say at the present time we still have a club.

Change is needed,how it happens is unknown. Hopefully we can all pull together and come up with some form of "plan" that benefits the great name of ORLFC and maybe,just maybe one day,3000 or more fans will once again stand united behind the banner of ORLFC.

[HomeOfTheTubularBandage]

I offered money 2 years ago as did four others - if a membership model was followed. We were dismissed and ultimately ignored. I won't offer again. I would however purchase a membership.

And if you are willing to stick 10k in the current club structure, you truly do have more money than sense.

[tandle]

34 bang on

[Bedford Roughyed]

11 hours ago, tandle said:

a simple question how much money are any of you prepared to invest I will put £10.000 in come on now and match it.

How much of that £10,000 are you willing to give CH?

[eclecticsheep]

I think this discussion is a little early...eventually, in the passage of time, after pause for assessment, in the fullness of reflection, one hopes CH will...having reappraised his goals, targets and working capital v liabilities reassure all of ORLFC`s wonderful long suffering fans of his "vision" and "aims" for the new challenge of Champ one....

 

(with apologies to "Yes Prime Minister!")

[Tangle]

People keep talking about the club having no assets  Ie no ground but only 8 of the bottom 30 clubs own their own ground so not much assets . Also guite  a few super league clubs don't. 

[HomeOfTheTubularBandage]

3 hours ago, Tangle said:

People keep talking about the club having no assets  Ie no ground but only 8 of the bottom 30 clubs own their own ground so not much assets . Also guite  a few super league clubs don't. 

True tangle, but it's not just about fixed assets. Its also about working capital and working revenue budgets. It's about liabilities too. If you have high liabilities but no assets and poor revenue you cant even service your debt, let alone invest.

Of the big four - assets, liabilities, revenue and expenditure.... the current club has a handle on just one...expenditure. I'll give CH his due he doesn"t chuck money about, he cuts wherever he can. But even being frugal isn't enough when revenues are so low.

I reckon a membership scheme with 250-300 members and a good commercial manager could bring in around 150k a year extra but cost maybe a combined 70k in salary, on costs and administration.

That's a balance of 80k extra cash per year, along with a much more engaged fan base and a higher profile for the club. The more members you recruit the better it gets. It's a no brainer.

[tandle]

just had a good look at champ,1 table take away the local derbys against hunslet and Keighley. then the traveling to do dosent bode well if we only get £70.000

[Tangle]

25 minutes ago, tandle said:

just had a good look at champ,1 table take away the local derbys against hunslet and Keighley. then the traveling to do dosent bode well if we only get £70.000

Look at next years championship 6or7 home games with no away support no HKR or Bradford there will be some tight budgets in that league.

[tandle]

how very true tangle looking at that I fear for our once great game, it will be even worse if catalan are relegated.

[tandle]

I have been doing a little of  accounting over 30 games, money  from the rfl £70.000 gates of a average of 500 at £15 ahead £7500 total  home matches 15 gate receipts    £112500 giving a total income of £182.500.vat payable on gate receipts £18750 leaving a total of £163750 divide  that by thirty games £5458 each game,  players  21. coaching staff 3. and ch. wages to come out plus tax. insurances. travelling costs rent. business rates. stewards. it does not make good reading.   

[moorside roughyed]

TBH in rugby league these days you don't seem to be able to progress unless you have a sugar daddy owner with plenty of cash.There doesn't seem to be the number of fans there used to be.It'd be interesting to know just how many pro/semi pro clubs actually run at a profit year on year.It seems you don't get involved for the money do you.Its all a bit worrying really.

[clifford]

I've been thinking since Sunday, and after speaking to r34 that the rugby league doesn't want the likes of us Swinton Batley Rochdale they want Liverpool Manchester Birmingham new York etc. I have to agree that world rugby league is coming. 

Or even joining up with the union chaps

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, clifford said:

I've been thinking since Sunday, and after speaking to r34 that the rugby league doesn't want the likes of us Swinton Batley Rochdale they want Liverpool Manchester Birmingham new York etc. I have to agree that world rugby league is coming. 

Or even joining up with the union chaps

I'd say they're not really bothered about us. They've probably looked around at the age of the spectators in the stands and drawn their own conclusions. I'm 68 so I'm not being ageist.

[Blind side johnny]

6 hours ago, tandle said:

how very true tangle looking at that I fear for our once great game, it will be even worse if catalan are relegated.

Being a bit brutal but if clubs are dependent upon away support for survival then they aren't actually viable, are they? There must come a point where everyone's away support is as poor as each other - how do the sums then add up?

Depending upon having a "big" club in the league with stronger away support than the rest isn't actually pulling your weight. This isn't targeted at the Oldham club but all of us below SL level. How did we all manage before the bounteous days of Sky?

[moorside roughyed]

3 hours ago, clifford said:

I've been thinking since Sunday, and after speaking to r34 that the rugby league doesn't want the likes of us Swinton Batley Rochdale they want Liverpool Manchester Birmingham new York etc. I have to agree that world rugby league is coming. 

Or even joining up with the union chaps

I'm dreading this world rugby league thing.It'll kill the game as we know it.I remember when rugby league used to call rugby union elitist, who's elitist now?.If this notion of incorporating foreign clubs into our game goes too much further I'll walk away,I wonder if others would follow?.Why can't league competitions be set up in the relevant countries?. I will only support a club that represents me and where I come and it's not Manchester. It's daft.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Blind side johnny said:

Being a bit brutal but if clubs are dependent upon away support for survival then they aren't actually viable, are they? There must come a point where everyone's away support is as poor as each other - how do the sums then add up?

Depending upon having a "big" club in the league with stronger away support than the rest isn't actually pulling your weight. This isn't targeted at the Oldham club but all of us below SL level. How did we all manage before the bounteous days of Sky?

For me the whole Sky- SuperLeague - Summer Rugby move has been a failure.

[Watersheddings was great]

Total failure, and even more so for the amateur game.