Crowds for semis and final

[Maximus Decimus]

1 minute ago, JonM said:

The first claim could be true (aggregate tv viewing figures.) but I agree with you on biggest game.

I don't have figures for the 1992 or 1995  WC Finals from Wembley, but it could have easily been over 10 million for a Saturday afternoon BBC1 world cup final back then. (An episode of "Auntie's Sporting Bloomers" had an audience of 17 million in 1995,  "Question of Sport"  didn't drop below 10 million all year in 1992.)

 

See my newly started thread!

[Sports Prophet]

4 hours ago, Jim Prendle said:

Are you adding up all those clubs in Sydney and comparing the aggregate attendance to that of two clubs in Queensland?

No, compared to just the Brisbane crowds and why wouldn't I count the aggregate number of attendances for all Sydney fixtures? (There are three clubs in Qld btw, but only one in Brisbane).

You said Brisbane is the "true" capital of RL.

I disagreed noting more people attend, play and watch rugby league in Sydney than any other city in Oz. Certainly three big KPIs any city claiming to be the capital would look to be heading. I stand correct with the facts I presented.

If there was only one Sydney club like there is only one club in Brisbane, the facts at hand would suggest that the crowds would be larger in Sydney.

You are entitled to your opinion, but mine is backed by the facts above and previous.

 

 

[Scubby]

On another forum some guys who have bought tickets for Brisbane today are mentioning PAX of 20-21k. This is nothing short of pathetic. Swatches of seats available behind the goals and sections not even opened higher up. Andrew Hill has bollocked this up big time. You can't sugar coat this #### Tonga has basically saved his ass from it being another 2000 crowd wise.

What sort of messed up country records massive viewing figures for an event yet no lazy sod actually wants to go to games?

[Jace]

3 minutes ago, Scubby said:

On another forum some guys who have bought tickets for Brisbane today are mentioning PAX of 20-21k. This is nothing short of pathetic. Swatches of seats available behind the goals and sections not even opened higher up. Andrew Hill has bollocked this up big time. You can't sugar coat this #### Tonga has basically saved his ass from it being another 2000 crowd wise.

What sort of messed up country records massive viewing figures for an event yet no lazy sod actually wants to go to games?

That pretty sums up the sport in Australia with the only exceptions being State of Origin and NRL finals. People would rather watch on tv than attend the games. Mind you, most people I've spoken to have shifted their focus to summer sports. "Rugby league in November?" with a puzzled expression is common reaction I've encountered

[Scubby]

5 minutes ago, Jace said:

That pretty sums up the sport in Australia with the only exceptions being State of Origin and NRL finals. People would rather watch on tv than attend the games. Mind you, most people I've spoken to have shifted their focus to summer sports. "Rugby league in November?" with a puzzled expression is common reaction I've encountered

You book Suncorp stadium with a 54k capacity for the semi final of the WC over 2 years out from the game. Right in the heart of a city that is full of sports fans and you sell something like 10-15k tickets by the week before the final. Andrew Hill should give his salary back. I bet Canterbury can't wait to get this guy in to try and fill the 75k empty seats for every home game.

There is literally no excuse. No excuse at all. The media, the fans, the clubs they deserve exactly what they get. Meanwhile Soccer and AFL are creating 2 truly national sports and, in soccer's case, and international aspect that RL can only dream of. Bloody embarrassing. I am furious but simply embarrassed for the game in Australia. 

[Exiled Wiganer]

In a way getting Brisbane to "save" the figures would only have disguised the worst effort to get b--s on seats in the history of our sport. Bear in mind that this team has had far more resources available to it. Jason Harbarrow was a man with a van in 2000... 

The players and the viewing figures will come to the rescue of course but either:

- the obvious conflict of interest between the NRL's interests and those of international league means that there is genuinely no incentive on the Sydney based team to show the latter in a good light - indeed I would argue that a low key (but still prifitable) World Cup suits the NRL fine and dandy; or

- they simply don't consider b--s on seats in a vat country to matter as long as overall massive numbers watch the games (which is not an insane position); or

- the organisers are incredibly inept and out of their depth. 

 

[Allora]

39 minutes ago, Scubby said:

You book Suncorp stadium with a 54k capacity for the semi final of the WC over 2 years out from the game. Right in the heart of a city that is full of sports fans and you sell something like 10-15k tickets by the week before the final. Andrew Hill should give his salary back. I bet Canterbury can't wait to get this guy in to try and fill the 75k empty seats for every home game.

There is literally no excuse. No excuse at all. The media, the fans, the clubs they deserve exactly what they get. Meanwhile Soccer and AFL are creating 2 truly national sports and, in soccer's case, and international aspect that RL can only dream of. Bloody embarrassing. I am furious but simply embarrassed for the game in Australia. 

Yawn...

Move on, its not about counting crowds and comparing numbers for the last 20 years.

If people wanted to support the event they would.

Spinning it with Marketing will not make much difference, League fans in NSW and Qld are pretty well informed and know plenty about the game and what they want to watch.

Maybe they are not interested? 

Perhaps the same fans missing from Suncorp are at the Gabba watching the Cricket?

Blackball Australia from holding these Tournaments for 25 years it would alleviate so much angst and teeth gnashing on this Forum.

The current concept and format obviously does not generate the excitement, passion or desire for the Fans to embrace it in large numbers.

It could even prevent one or two Heart attacks and Strokes looking at some of the posts on here, most from Fans that are not in Australia following the game because of work, money, family or I suspect lack of belief on either making the final or competing in it and winning.

There lies the problem in crowds.

[Maximus Decimus]

48 minutes ago, Allora said:

Yawn...

Move on, its not about counting crowds and comparing numbers for the last 20 years.

If people wanted to support the event they would.

Spinning it with Marketing will not make much difference, League fans in NSW and Qld are pretty well informed and know plenty about the game and what they want to watch.

Maybe they are not interested? 

Perhaps the same fans missing from Suncorp are at the Gabba watching the Cricket?

Blackball Australia from holding these Tournaments for 25 years it would alleviate so much angst and teeth gnashing on this Forum.

The current concept and format obviously does not generate the excitement, passion or desire for the Fans to embrace it in large numbers.

It could even prevent one or two Heart attacks and Strokes looking at some of the posts on here, most from Fans that are not in Australia following the game because of work, money, family or I suspect lack of belief on either making the final or competing in it and winning.

There lies the problem in crowds.

It seems we haven't moved on from talking past each other.

There are two issues and they are both right.

a ) Australians are less interested than others because of the lack of competitiveness in the last 45 years or so. Being a shark in a pond is not that exciting for the shark. Expecting fans to turn out out of obligation never works.

b ) The tournament has been badly organised. There is some appetite for international RL but it has not been maximised during this World Cup, they have done a worse job of maximising this than last time. Venues were chosen and given multiple games that are not renowned for drawing crowds. Games were put on at times that guarantee lower viewing figures.

We after all have many of the same problems in the UK. There is a limited appetite for international RL here too. Whilst we get 70,000 to the Grand Final until recently we couldn't fill 25,000 for Australia. 

The difference is that we have the experience of 2000 and 2013 to draw on where organisation was an enormous factor in the relative success of the tournaments. The same fans in the same country attended one well but the other terribly. 

[IM2]

funny i cant go to the semi this weekend but am going to the final. i paid $61 per ticket and sold for £56 a ticket last night. sign there is demand. 

[Exiled Wiganer]

In a nutshell, whenever we do anything, when we get to the end we want to be able and look back and say that we have done all we can. Here, I cannot believe anyone who has witnessed the organising committee's efforts can conclude that the low crowds in all of the NRL stadia are DESPITE the committee doing everything they can, or indeed everything we did to make 2013 a million times better than 2000. There will always be die hards, and league haters, but there are also many thousands who could be persuaded to come along by engaging, witty, clever marketing tricks. 

Against which of course:

- the NRL produces the world's top performers whom we love to watch; 

- from grassroots up, Australians watch and follow the game in unimaginable numbers to which we can only aspire over here;

- they have supported NZ, PNG and to a lesser extent the other Pacific Islands. Admittedly there is self interest at play, but they could have decided to adopt the Melbourne sport's model that you only need Aussies to be successful. 

Meanwhile, the good far outweighs the bad - the NZ and PNG games have in every case bar one been wonderful to watch. And of course what really matters happens on the grass bit between the stands - and that has as ever been fantastic.

[Exiled Wiganer]

Peter Kay is on tour next year. I know this because I have been e mailed about it repeatedly over the last week or so by companies I have bought tickets through. I received 1 e mail from the RLWC about tickets, and that was towards the end of the first week announcing that tickets were available to all the games - which came over as desperate rather than enticing. There is no evidence of any of the marketing tools that worked brilliantly in 2013 being used. 

Incompetence on a scale without precedent?

Wilful underselling to keep the NRL safe and sound? 

Disinterest because success and failure is entirely dependent on eyes on the screens, and that record viewing figures matter far more? 

Or all 3? 

Thinking ahead to 2025, with the best will in the world I had assumed there would be at best a 10% chance that a North America World Cup would happen when it was announced, but given apathy/NRL resistance this year I wonder whether we could make a go of it. It would need:

- Americans organising it; and

- groups based in a small number of host cities - so if NYC follows Toronto's lead, we could have 2 of our groups there, leaving just 2 more (Hawaii? Given its very strong Pacific links? Florida, given Brits' appetite to visit there?).

If we can get the TV deals in place then the bar for crowds is now so low, why ever not? 

[Sports Prophet]

I think both Allora and Scubby have equally valid points.

I won’t defend the organisers because I think they have done an awful job.

Where I do have issue is where the Aussie fans take a flogging from people on here. With a suitable mix of long season; historically all conquering Kangaroos; venue selection; no marketing; convoluted group setup; cricket season started; there are plenty with a limited interest that can only manage to be interested to watch at home.

Someone earlier summed up a lot of opinion in Aus, RL in November???

As to this weekend’s fixtures, the city of Brisbane is gripped with Ashes fever. With tickets at a scorching level plus add ons, I don’t think there is the cash available in the pockets of many who would be interested in the RLWC. I hope I am proved wrong tonight.

RL has a small international footprint. I don’t think the sport does itself any favours by hosting the WC at the end of an already long club season. I think interest would be much different if the WC was hosted in the middle of the regular season when the sporting media and public’s focus is on the footy.

[Sports Prophet]

2 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Peter Kay is on tour next year. I know this because I have been e mailed about it repeatedly over the last week or so by companies I have bought tickets through. I received 1 e mail from the RLWC about tickets, and that was towards the end of the first week announcing that tickets were available to all the games - which came over as desperate rather than enticing. There is no evidence of any of the marketing tools that worked brilliantly in 2013 being used. 

Incompetence on a scale without precedent?

Wilful underselling to keep the NRL safe and sound? 

Disinterest because success and failure is entirely dependent on eyes on the screens, and that record viewing figures matter far more? 

Or all 3? 

Thinking ahead to 2025, with the best will in the world I had assumed there would be at best a 10% chance that a North America World Cup would happen when it was announced, but given apathy/NRL resistance this year I wonder whether we could make a go of it. It would need:

- Americans organising it; and

- groups based in a small number of host cities - so if NYC follows Toronto's lead, we could have 2 of our groups there, leaving just 2 more (Hawaii? Given its very strong Pacific links? Florida, given Brits' appetite to visit there?).

If we can get the TV deals in place then the bar for crowds is now so low, why ever not? 

As to 2025 EW, I agree that a limited number of venues would be ideal. I would think more than four though if we really want to make the most of capitalising on the event in N America. Not sure about Hawaii (time difference between there and east coast could present an issue for players and viewers) but not convinced games shouldn’t be there either.

The beauty of any location picked is that there is little understanding in N America of the difference between League and Union, but they know of Rugby in most places and it’s large following in Europe and the antipodes. The World Cup would be a brilliant example of an opportunity where RL can ride on Union’s international profile to the benefit of a N America hosted RLWC.

[Kayakman]

3 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

As to 2025 EW, I agree that a limited number of venues would be ideal. I would think more than four though if we really want to make the most of capitalising on the event in N America. Not sure about Hawaii (time difference between there and east coast could present an issue for players and viewers) but not convinced games shouldn’t be there either.

The beauty of any location picked is that there is little understanding in N America of the difference between League and Union, but they know of Rugby in most places and it’s large following in Europe and the antipodes. The World Cup would be a brilliant example of an opportunity where RL can ride on Union’s international profile to the benefit of a N America hosted RLWC.

Vancouver certainly should be a venue.

[Mattrhino]

Crowd looks awful. Broncos v Broncos 'B' pre season game would draw more than this. The organisers need to be strung up.

[Exiled Wiganer]

As far as selling tickets in NRL stadia, it is the worst organised event since the family fun day at the Phoenix Club. 

[GeordieSaint]

6 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

Crowd looks awful. Broncos v Broncos 'B' pre season game would draw more than this. The organisers need to be strung up.

It's not the organisers fault according to some... England's lack of competitiveness supposedly. 

[Dave T]

looks better than i expected tbh but why have they sold tickets up in the gods and left prime seats empty?

prices clearly an issue.

[Jace]

It's late November, majority of people have turned their attention to summer sports especially with the ashes in town. We can't have a club season running for most of the year then a world cup after. Most will get sick of it, regardless of which sport it is.  There has to be a compromise somewhere with either a shortened club season in a world cup year or both running concurrently. Unfortunately that's a whole other story with its own set of problems

[JonM]

2 minutes ago, Jace said:

It's late November, majority of people have turned their attention to summer sports especially with the ashes in town.

Yeah, bit naughty of the ACB not to consult their crystal ball as to when the RLWC semi-final was going to be played when they scheduled the Ashes tests several years ago.

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Jace said:

It's late November, majority of people have turned their attention to summer sports especially with the ashes in town. We can't have a club season running for most of the year then a world cup after. Most will get sick of it, regardless of which sport it is.  There has to be a compromise somewhere with either a shortened club season in a world cup year or both running concurrently. Unfortunately that's a whole other story with its own set of problems

Jeez, the list of excuses keeps getting longer and longer.

[nadera78]

10 minutes ago, Jace said:

It's late November, majority of people have turned their attention to summer sports especially with the ashes in town. We can't have a club season running for most of the year then a world cup after. Most will get sick of it, regardless of which sport it is.  There has to be a compromise somewhere with either a shortened club season in a world cup year or both running concurrently. Unfortunately that's a whole other story with its own set of problems

Every other sport seems to manage holding a World Cup after the domestic season has finished.

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, nadera78 said:

Every other sport seems to manage holding a World Cup after the domestic season has finished.

If it is such an issue for the Aussies we could do what RU does and stage it in-season. I'm pretty sure SL would be happy to have a mid-season break for it.

But then the NRL wouldn't want that either.

[Exiled Wiganer]

The Aussies bid for this. The NRL grounds bid for the games. It is not a matter of criticising the Aussie fans, the blame lies entirely with the people responsible for marketing the games at the NRL grounds. 

[Jace]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

If it is such an issue for the Aussies we could do what RU does and stage it in-season. I'm pretty sure SL would be happy to have a mid-season break for it.

But then the NRL wouldn't want that either.

That's because club rugby league is perceived to be more important than a world cup. Sad but true