NZRL to block Aus V Tonga Test

[deluded pom?]

1 hour ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

Relax, HS!  Sorry if my Sunday morning attempt at flippant humour hit a raw nerve, but, as I say, relax!

I am delighted we have different opinions.  Let's face it, a discussion forum on any topic in which everybody agreed with the initial poster would be...well...not a discussion forum!

What you (and Norman Tebbit!) might just be overlooking is, ultimately, that with something like sport, it doesn't really matter.  If your team wins - fine, enjoy the moment!  If they lose, don't throw yourself in the Leeds & Liverpool Canal; it's not worth it.

What that philosophy means in international sporting terms is that those of us who live in one country, but with a family history embedded in another, have the luxury of choice; we can celebrate our pride in our family history through the innocuous medium of supporting a sports team representing the country of our family's origins.  In my case, on my dad's side of the family, my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather (I think that's the right number of 'great's) was born in Shetland in the 1400s.  Every subsequent generation was Shetland born and raised until my grandfather, who left the islands as young man to come, like many a Shetlander before him, to Aberdeen, where he successfully set up a business, married and had his family.  So my dad was Aberdeen born and raised.  I too was born there, but left as a babe in arms, as dad had secured a job in Manchester, after coming out of the RAF after the war.

I have lived in England all my life since (68 years and counting); I love the place and my best friends are all English, as are my wife and in-laws (more specifically, they are all from Yorkshire).  Back at the paternal family tree, my son, who was born in Whitby, is the first in fourteen generations not to be born in Scotland (well, possibly excluding my great x 10 grandfather, as Shetland might not have been in Scotland then!)

So, who do I support when Scotland play England at sport?  Scotland, of course!  Does it matter?  No, not really!  Relax!

You are Rod Stewart and I claim my 24 year old blonde stunner.

[DavidM]

Shame if true . So many talk the talk on internationals then obstacles get put out which stymy them . We never get any but we can’t handle two in a week . See the bigger picture and get these games going 

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

42 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

You are Rod Stewart and I claim my 24 year old blonde stunner.

Brilliant, DP.  

[Allora]

9 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

One day it will sink in that international RL cannot be done at our convenience. Its at the market's convenience. 

Australia's blocking of the Denver test is embarrassingly parochial and backward. 

The NZRL attempting to block this is also embarrassingly parochial and backward. 

The idea that the american market will bend to our will is hilariously parochial and naive. 

The vested interests of the NRL/NZRL/RFL are each protecting their own fiefdoms and keeping international RL in its box. Its time to bypass them. 

How do you do that?

[deluded pom?]

9 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Go straight to the players. Create a global players union that has an ownership stake in international RL.

But but but that will prevent the ones eligible from playing SoO.

[Yorkshire Knight]

I'm sorry but I do not agree with the outrage expressed in this forum at the decision of the NZRL. NZ is not the home of either team in this proposal so why should it be played there especially when you consider that both countries are not far away? What's wrong with staging it in Australia? This is nothing but Aussies passing the buck if anything. Probably ashamed that their half-arsed efforts for the international game won't attract any fans in Australia  

[lucky 7]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

One day it will sink in that international RL cannot be done at our convenience. Its at the market's convenience. 

Australia's blocking of the Denver test is embarrassingly parochial and backward. 

The NZRL attempting to block this is also embarrassingly parochial and backward. 

The idea that the american market will bend to our will is hilariously parochial and naive. 

The vested interests of the NRL/NZRL/RFL are each protecting their own fiefdoms and keeping international RL in its box. Its time to bypass them. 

Perhaps its a case of pay back time from the NZRL to the Aussies for the Aussies giving zero support to the Denver test. Just thinking out aloud.

[DoubleD]

2 hours ago, lucky 7 said:

Perhaps its a case of pay back time from the NZRL to the Aussies for the Aussies giving zero support to the Denver test. Just thinking out aloud.

Exactly, what goes around, comes around. It’s just political jostling. The NRL and ARLC have treated NZ with contempt for a long time, which is partly why they have no money 

[DavidM]

What role or influence does woody and them at international hq have ?

[GeordieSaint]

Are the Kiwis playing Australia in NZ around the same time? If so, that’s what this will be about... the loss of ticket sales.

[ghost crayfish]

I'm wondering why the NZRL don't see this as a bit of a chance to cash in on Tonga themselves. They could put on a Tonga/Samoa, Australia/NZ double header at Eden Park, followed by Aus/Tonga at Mt Smart. As host couldn't they get a cut of ticket sales for both, while also putting international league in the spotlight in NZ for two weeks... But that's not gonna happen...so now I just hope they play it in Australia. Surely it's not that hard!

[The Future is League]

4 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

I'm wondering why the NZRL don't see this as a bit of a chance to cash in on Tonga themselves. They could put on a Tonga/Samoa, Australia/NZ double header at Eden Park, followed by Aus/Tonga at Mt Smart. As host couldn't they get a cut of ticket sales for both, while also putting international league in the spotlight in NZ for two weeks... But that's not gonna happen...so now I just hope they play it in Australia. Surely it's not that hard!

Probably the same reason the NRL/AFL couldn't see the benefits of backing the Denver test, which is a way of breaking into the most lucrative sports market in the world.

[ghost crayfish]

28 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

Probably the same reason the NRL/AFL couldn't see the benefits of backing the Denver test, which is a way of breaking into the most lucrative sports market in the world.

Not sure what your point is?

[The Future is League]

8 minutes ago, ghost crayfish said:

Not sure what your point is?

The NRL/AFL were anti the Denver test so why should the NZRL endorse a test that Australia want to play in New Zealand against a non New Zealand team?

The NRL/AFL need to start looking at the bigger picture and stop thinking me me me.

[ghost crayfish]

1 hour ago, The Future is League said:

The NRL/AFL were anti the Denver test so why should the NZRL endorse a test that Australia want to play in New Zealand against a non New Zealand team?

The NRL/AFL need to start looking at the bigger picture and stop thinking me me me.

Yeah great. They should shoot themselves in the foot out of spite. Brilliant. Now that's seeing the bigger picture!

[The Future is League]

5 minutes ago, ghost crayfish said:

Yeah great. They should shoot themselves in the foot out of spite. Brilliant. Now that's seeing the bigger picture!

Strange comment by you.

In your opinion why do you think the NRL/AFL were so anti the Denver test?

[ghost crayfish]

1 hour ago, The Future is League said:

Strange comment by you.

In your opinion why do you think the NRL/AFL were so anti the Denver test?

I don't understand why you're on about the Denver test. I was talking about Tonga playing in NZ, and simply suggested it would be a positive for the NZRL if they did so. If they're blocking it purely out of spite for the NRL being difficult to them previously, then that seems shortsighted. If I was them I'd take an extra week of rugby league headlines in NZ and a cut of extra ticket sales...

[The Future is League]

Just now, ghost crayfish said:

I don't understand why you're on about the Denver test. I was talking about Tonga playing in NZ, and simply suggested it would be a positive for the NZRL if they did so. If they're blocking it purely out of spite for the NRL being difficult to them previously, then that seems shortsighted. If I was them I'd take an extra week of rugby league headlines in NZ and a cut of extra ticket sales...

My point is why should the NZRL endorse Australia playing a friendly test in New Zealand against a non NZ team when the NRL/AFL did its best to stop the NZ V England test going ahead in Denver?

[Anita Bath]

On 8/12/2018 at 8:07 PM, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

Relax, HS!  Sorry if my Sunday morning attempt at flippant humour hit a raw nerve, but, as I say, relax!

I am delighted we have different opinions.  Let's face it, a discussion forum on any topic in which everybody agreed with the initial poster would be...well...not a discussion forum!

What you (and Norman Tebbit!) might just be overlooking is, ultimately, that with something like sport, it doesn't really matter.  If your team wins - fine, enjoy the moment!  If they lose, don't throw yourself in the Leeds & Liverpool Canal; it's not worth it.

What that philosophy means in international sporting terms is that those of us who live in one country, but with a family history embedded in another, have the luxury of choice; we can celebrate our pride in our family history through the innocuous medium of supporting a sports team representing the country of our family's origins.  In my case, on my dad's side of the family, my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather (I think that's the right number of 'great's) was born in Shetland in the 1400s.  Every subsequent generation was Shetland born and raised until my grandfather, who left the islands as young man to come, like many a Shetlander before him, to Aberdeen, where he successfully set up a business, married and had his family.  So my dad was Aberdeen born and raised.  I too was born there, but left as a babe in arms, as dad had secured a job in Manchester, after coming out of the RAF after the war.

I have lived in England all my life since (68 years and counting); I love the place and my best friends are all English, as are my wife and in-laws (more specifically, they are all from Yorkshire).  Back at the paternal family tree, my son, who was born in Whitby, is the first in fourteen generations not to be born in Scotland (well, possibly excluding my great x 10 grandfather, as Shetland might not have been in Scotland then!)

So, who do I support when Scotland play England at sport?  Scotland, of course!  Does it matter?  No, not really!  Relax!

They might have the luxury of choice but in Rugby league they dont have to make that choice...they can play for both countries, as many of them have. Choice means giving something up to get something else.  RL are so desperate for competitive international games blokes who arent good enough to play for their chosen team can play for the team they chose not to play for originally.

 

 

[ghost crayfish]

16 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

My point is why should the NZRL endorse Australia playing a friendly test in New Zealand against a non NZ team when the NRL/AFL did its best to stop the NZ V England test going ahead in Denver?

Yes, I realise that's your point. And I'll make mine again: that's a reaction out of spite, not sense. You and the NZRL are welcome to it... If I was a broke national governing body of a sport that struggles for attention, I'd take the opportunity to boost my game's profile, make some extra cash, and keep the hype about Tonga going. Hell, I might even build on that hype by taking the chance to schedule a game against Tonga for next year and promoting it at this one!

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

59 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

They might have the luxury of choice but in Rugby league they dont have to make that choice...they can play for both countries, as many of them have. Choice means giving something up to get something else.  RL are so desperate for competitive international games blokes who arent good enough to play for their chosen team can play for the team they chose not to play for originally.

 

 

I think you have lost track of what this point of discussion was about, Anita B.  It was nothing to do with players making a choice; it was about fans.  Harry Stottle seemed to be expressing disapproval of fans at international sporting fixtures who support the country of their family's heritage, even when that country is playing the country in which those fans have chosen to live, be educated and work (indeed, in some cases they will have been born there too) - hence his reference to the weekend's events at Lord's cricket ground.

it is a valid opinion, of course, albeit one with which I happen not to agree, and the post of mine you have quoted was trying to give an insight into why some of us think differently, as we do.  Above all, however, I was trying to emphasise that supporting one sports team or another - even at international level - is, in the great scheme of things, an inconsequential matter, though I suppose you could qualify that observation with comments about political manipulation. 

My teasing comment about Norman Tebbit was because the point HS was making was exactly that made by Tebbit many years ago, as other contributors to this thread have kindly confirmed.  I know from other posts, which he has written or to which he has reacted, that HS has a sense of humour.  I wish I could say the same about Tebbit!  Perhaps he has in private, but his public persona made him, for me, one of the coldest, most humourless members of the Thatcher group.

But to confirm - this is nothing to do with players' international choices.

[deluded pom?]

8 minutes ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

I know from other posts, which he has written or to which he has reacted, that HS has a sense of humour.  I wish I could say the same about Tebbit! 

Give over. Tebbit used to be very funny on Spitting Image.

[The Future is League]

7 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

Yes, I realise that's your point. And I'll make mine again: that's a reaction out of spite, not sense. You and the NZRL are welcome to it... If I was a broke national governing body of a sport that struggles for attention, I'd take the opportunity to boost my game's profile, make some extra cash, and keep the hype about Tonga going. Hell, I might even build on that hype by taking the chance to schedule a game against Tonga for next year and promoting it at this one!

Talking of spite why was the NRL/AFL so anti the Denver test?

[ghost crayfish]

2 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Talking of spite why was the NRL/AFL so anti the Denver test?

Wow. I'm just gonna slowly back away now. You seem...troubled.

[17 stone giant]

I can see  both sides of the argument.

I mean, if Tonga are going to start playing regularly in Auckland (e.g. not in their own country) against the likes of Australia and England, then will that mean NZ born players opting for them instead of NZ? If so, you can see why NZ would want to look out for their own interests.

Maybe if there was an arrangement whereby NZ got first pick of the players, then they might be more supportive of playing Tonga matches in Auckland. But it's taking the p*ss a bit to expect them to support a foreign team playing in their country, if it means them losing NZ born players. It's not as if the Kiwis are like the All Blacks and can afford to lose talent.