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Dave T

So, Liam Neeson....

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12 minutes ago, Niels said:

There are a lot of virtue signallers tweeting how offended they are also. 

It was a dark hour for him and in fairness he wasn't looking to attack innocent people as such, he was waiting for someone to annoy him. Thus even in that dark place his social justice conscience was still active. 

Similar to farmduck I don't think it was racist. He has explained the point I was going to make so I won't repeat it. 

No one knows how they will feel in a similar situation so I think some of the criticism is unfair.

 

No, he was looking to attack only non-innocent black people. No other race. That dramatically changes the story.

Edited by Dave T
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46 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

I do not think having racist, hateful or malicious thoughts about anyone is a problem. 

Really? 

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"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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It reminds of the good ole boys of the South who would lynch any black they came across. In revenge for any slight to them or their family members.

Edited by jacksy
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Rugby Union the only game in the world were the spectators handle the ball more than the players.

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5 hours ago, jacksy said:

Why would any black person do? why not just the offender?

 

I listened to the tape this morning, he didn't actually say he wanted to kill any black male, he said he was waiting to be attacked by a black male, then kill him.

 


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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1 hour ago, Farmduck said:

I only listened to the interview. Anything he says later is just an attempt at damage control.

So, how many black people did he actually kill? Or assault? Or even yell racists slurs at?

As I said to Ginger, the story, to me, is about the irrationality of human emotions. "Black" was the only thing he knew about the attacker.

I think there's more to it than this and not just from a race issue. I don't think most people are capable of going out and looking for up to 10 days with the intention of murdering someone, regardless of how angry they feel.  If he'd said in a fit of rage he'd gone looking for someone that might have been one thing but he did it for 7-10 days; that's plenty of time to calm down and think about what you're doing.

Are there some things that you cannot be redeemed from? For instance, if somebody had been a wife-beater can they renounce that after 20 years or will it always follow them? I think this is a similar case.

I would side with Dave here in questioning whether he would have latched on to anything or whether it was just because they were black. His use of a racial slur suggests that there was something about their being black specifically. As John Barnes said, that could indicate a wider point about what he thought based on media perception etc but then again it might just be about his personal thoughts.

 

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51 minutes ago, Phil said:

Really? 

Yes. Because you should be able to separate your thoughts from reality. 


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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Just now, Bob8 said:

Yes. Because you should be able to separate your thoughts from reality. 

I also think in a fit of anger that somebody can latch on to anything hurtful about someone and think a horrible thought. It might be a colour of hair, a colour of skin, somebody's weight or what someone is wearing. It doesn't mean they are fundamentally horrible, they are just trying to be hurtful.

This is different: he spent 7-10 days looking for somebody to hurt, potentially even murder. I don't think anything could push me to that, maybe I'm wrong but I don't think it could with the majority of the population either.

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2 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I think there's more to it than this and not just from a race issue. I don't think most people are capable of going out and looking for up to 10 days with the intention of murdering someone, regardless of how angry they feel.  If he'd said in a fit of rage he'd gone looking for someone that might have been one thing but he did it for 7-10 days; that's plenty of time to calm down and think about what you're doing.

Are there some things that you cannot be redeemed from? For instance, if somebody had been a wife-beater can they renounce that after 20 years or will it always follow them? I think this is a similar case.

I would side with Dave here in questioning whether he would have latched on to anything or whether it was just because they were black. His use of a racial slur suggests that there was something about their being black specifically. As John Barnes said, that could indicate a wider point about what he thought based on media perception etc but then again it might just be about his personal thoughts.

 

Do you think he was looking for a black man simply because it was a black man who raped his friend, we don't know if it had been an Indian it would have been an Indian he went looking for.

 


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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1 minute ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I also think in a fit of anger that somebody can latch on to anything hurtful about someone and think a horrible thought. It might be a colour of hair, a colour of skin, somebody's weight or what someone is wearing. It doesn't mean they are fundamentally horrible, they are just trying to be hurtful.

This is different: he spent 7-10 days looking for somebody to hurt, potentially even murder. I don't think anything could push me to that, maybe I'm wrong but I don't think it could with the majority of the population either.

In that case, I stand utterly corrected. Thank you and sorry. 


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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8 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Do you think he was looking for a black man simply because it was a black man who raped his friend, we don't know if it had been an Indian it would have been an Indian he went looking for.

 

This we don't but his mention of the phrase 'black b' suggests race was an issue. Had it been a Scottish person would he have gone trawling the streets for a Scot? I'm not so sure. 

 

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One thing is sure, the film's promoters must be regretting setting up that press junket now. They say there's no such thing as bad publicity, well they're about to find out.

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"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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30 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Do you think he was looking for a black man simply because it was a black man who raped his friend, we don't know if it had been an Indian it would have been an Indian he went looking for.

 

Why focus on race?

That's why this is racist IMO.

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17 minutes ago, Griff9of13 said:

One thing is sure, the film's promoters must be regretting setting up that press junket now. They say there's no such thing as bad publicity, well they're about to find out.

Indeed. And outside of the seriousness of the issue here, it really is a WTF moment!!!!

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27 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

This we don't but his mention of the phrase 'black b' suggests race was an issue. Had it been a Scottish person would he have gone trawling the streets for a Scot? I'm not so sure. 

 

He said he would. He seems to be doubling down on the issue of somebodies nationality/race being the main factor in who he wanted to kill.

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Indeed. And outside of the seriousness of the issue here, it really is a WTF moment!!!!

I believe so and when he said he went out for a week and half looking and waiting to be attacked by a black man I think he's added a little bit of bravado.


Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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2 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I believe so and when he said he went out for a week and half looking and waiting to be attacked by a black man I think he's added a little bit of bravado.

If he has done that, his judgement is even worse than first thought!

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9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

If he has done that, his judgement is even worse than first thought!

From what he's said (that I have read at least), it was a period where his judgement was seriously deranged, and he felt deep shame about it as soon as it was over.

He'd grown up in the violent, troubled times of sectarian religious violence. He also went a bit off the rails when his wife was killed in a skiing accident, from what I've heard. I'd say he's taken more than a normal dose of psychological damage along the way. Plus, being a successful celebrity is no guarantee of intellectual rigour or balance.

If I was being businesslike, I'd say that this level of soul-baring is really something that would have best been kept private. But the can of worms is open now.

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"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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37 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Why focus on race?

That's why this is racist IMO.

It clearly was racist. 

My Mum told me of when she was a nurse. One of her colleagues was bathing an old lady who was very tense. Noting her tension, she tried to care a little more the patient became tenser. The nurse was sympathetic until the patient lost control, started to weep. She confessed her racism meant that she was uncomfortable being bathed by a black woman, yet when the nurse was incredibly kind she became ashamed. The patient was still racist, as in she had racist thoughts, but this is not the racism that creates untold human misery.

The racism that does that is the truth at justifies itself. The racism that blames others and claims it is fair and justified. How many people on this forum have never dreamed of smashing someone’s head in? The thought comes and is rejected in a moment. Or in a week. Or just has to keep being rejected. 

The danger is when a sense of victimhood or moral righteousness gives it an excuse. 

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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5 hours ago, Dave T said:

Surprised it took so long for Gingers to get a mention.

I completely disagree with your post FD. Had he just been angry and wanted revenge against anyone, that would indeed have been a different story, but that isn't the story, he wanted to kill a black b*****d, as he called them.

John Barnes' point on this is interesting and worthy of discussion, the level of unconscious racism.

Might it be that the reason he was after a black man specifically as opposed to any bloke was that it was a black man who had raped his friend?  

I don't find the instinct of revenge at all unusual.  It's a perfectly normal human reaction to an atrocity.  He didn't act on it, which is the important thing.  Most people don't I would imagine.  Most people will feel at least embarrassed by their reaction once some time has passed too I should think.

What I do find strange though is him asking his friend what colour the rapist was.  That to me is the indicator that he may have an underlying problem with race but then again I can only speak from my own perspective as it would never cross my mind to ask a friend who had been attacked what colour the attacker was.  However, I can well imagine feeling incredibly angry at the person who attacked my friend.

I could never imagine repeating all of that to a journalist!  Aside from any underlying racism that he may or may not be guilty of, speaking his thoughts even in retrospect to a journalist was a totally dumb thing to do especially in the current culture.

Edited by Saintslass
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2 hours ago, Bob8 said:

Yes. Because you should be able to separate your thoughts from reality. 

Human beings will always find themselves unable to separate their thoughts from reality at some point in their lives.  Instinct will always take over in certain situations.  Those situations will differ from person to person but to be irrational occasionally is to be human.

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On that there social media, they are saying  Neeson was out there publicising his latest film, Cold Pursuit I think its called, a film all about a family man out to get lots of bloody revenge, and was asked if he himself ever had been in the same position as his character in the film, and he came out with this statement.  You can almost see his publicist falling off her chair in the background. 

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1 hour ago, Marauder said:

"Judgement" I wonder what state of mind he was in at the time to have a clear judgement.

Sorry, the judgement I refer to is in the interview this week!

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59 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

Might it be that the reason he was after a black man specifically as opposed to any bloke was that it was a black man who had raped his friend?  

I don't find the instinct of revenge at all unusual.  It's a perfectly normal human reaction to an atrocity.  He didn't act on it, which is the important thing.  Most people don't I would imagine.  Most people will feel at least embarrassed by their reaction once some time has passed too I should think.

What I do find strange though is him asking his friend what colour the rapist was.  That to me is the indicator that he may have an underlying problem with race but then again I can only speak from my own perspective as it would never cross my mind to ask a friend who had been attacked what colour the attacker was.  However, I can well imagine feeling incredibly angry at the person who attacked my friend.

I could never imagine repeating all of that to a journalist!  Aside from any underlying racism that he may or may not be guilty of, speaking his thoughts even in retrospect to a journalist was a totally dumb thing to do especially in the current culture.

Pretty much agree with that. 

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Piers Morgan is attacking Neeson...

Spiked is defending him...

My usual 2 pointers to what is right or wrong can't agree!

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With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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