Brits in the NRL

[philipw]

Little snippet on Fox League this morning the Bateman has asked Wigan about coming back next year

https://twitter.com/johnnyddavidson/status/1267395985975783424

Edited June 1, 2020 by philipw

[barnyia]

To put his price up even more? 

[Hela Wigmen]

The old ‘Wigan Working Holiday Visa’ again. 

[DavidM]

Backward step imo 

[DoubleD]

1 hour ago, Manfred Mann said:

If James Graham does retire at the end of this season, I would hope that he could land a commentary contract with Fox League, where is already a regular alongside Benji Marshall on NRL 360 every Tuesday night. Retired player Sam Burgess is already on the Fox League payroll, but James Graham is at least 25 IQ points smarter than Sam, and also has a good sense of humor.

Agreed, I’m not sure Burgess offered anything insightful 

[DoubleD]

On 30/05/2020 at 18:26, Dunbar said:

Here's how I would rank the Brits in the NRL this week.

1. George Williams. Great game for the Raiders, setting up two tries in a dominant win over the Storm.

=2. Josh Hodgson.  His usual scheming self, bossed the Raiders pack around the park as they got over Melbourne. 

=2. Tom Burgess  In a beaten Souths team, he topped the running meters for forwards on the pitch, got the better of Waerea-Hargreaves in their personal duel and bagged a try.

4. Elliot Whitehead.  Solid as usual on the Raiders edge. He is that good you just expect him to perform every week.

5. Herbie Farnworth.  In a cameo performance he put his hand up to run the ball and a nice rib tickler hit to boot.

6. James Graham.  Only 28 minutes for St George. No errors but didn't bend the Warriors line.

Not selected. John Bateman (injury), Ryan Hall & Ryan Sutton.

I view it slightly different but then perhaps it’s cos I look at the game slightly differently. Williams got the headlines but I thought Hodgson was equally as good if not better. 

I also thought Whitehead was at least as good as Burgess. Often goes under the radar 

[Dunbar]

7 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

I view it slightly different but then perhaps it’s cos I look at the game slightly differently. Williams got the headlines but I thought Hodgson was equally as good if not better. 

I also thought Whitehead was at least as good as Burgess. Often goes under the radar 

That's an interesting phrase. In what way do you look at the game differently to me?

[DoubleD]

35 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

That's an interesting phrase. In what way do you look at the game differently to me?

That's only a perception I make Dunbar, so I could be wrong. You appear to focus heavily on the tangibles and the stats. I look at the intangibles more - the influence a player has on the team, style of play and impact they have. That for me is why I had Hodgson and Whitehead higher.

Whilst Hodgson didn't have what some might perceive a stand out game in terms of big involvements, I thought his control of the game was outstanding. He is the fundamental reason that the partnership of Wighton and Williams can work, despite them both being off the cuff play makers. His kicking was also notably good

[barnyia]

Don't forget that Williams came through the wigan system when they played a very very structured game, that fed through to the academy etc, 

Which is even more impressive that he can adapt to off the cuff rugby 

[Dunbar]

16 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

That's only a perception I make Dunbar, so I could be wrong. You appear to focus heavily on the tangibles and the stats. I look at the intangibles more - the influence a player has on the team, style of play and impact they have. That for me is why I had Hodgson and Whitehead higher.

Whilst Hodgson didn't have what some might perceive a stand out game in terms of big involvements, I thought his control of the game was outstanding. He is the fundamental reason that the partnership of Wighton and Williams can work, despite them both being off the cuff play makers. His kicking was also notably good

You are right, I do use the game statistics quite a lot.  I typically use them on here to dispute some of the outrageous claims that are made... i.e. when a player is criticized for not getting involved when the stats show that he had the most carries in the team.

However, I like to think I have enough understanding of the game to see the more intangible aspects.  I have never been the biggest fan of Hodgson (particularly at international level) as I think he overplays his hand but at the Raiders he suits them perfectly as his game management around the ruck is superb and he directs their forward game so well.  I just felt that the couple of game breaking plays that Williams showed put him right up there (as well as strong defence).

As for Burgess.  Yes, he had good stats, but the clincher for me is he showed a lot more aggression in the game this week than he usually does and he took on Warrea-Hargreaves who thrives on aggression hit for hit and for me he came out on top despite the team loss.  I think Burgess has recognized he is the senior figure in that Souths pack now and has to lead from the front more.

Edit: but happy to have a friendly disagreement of course... these boards are all about opinions after all.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Dunbar

[DoubleD]

3 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

You are right, I do use the game statistics quite a lot.  I typically use them on here to dispute some of the outrageous claims that are made... i.e. when a player is criticized for not getting involved when the stats show that he had the most carries in the team.

However, I like to think I have enough understanding of the game to see the more intangible aspects.  I have never been the biggest fan of Hodgson (particularly at international level) as I think he overplays his hand but at the Raiders he suits them perfectly as his game management around the ruck is superb and he directs their forward game so well.  I just felt that the couple of game breaking plays that Williams showed put him right up there (as well as strong defence).

As for Burgess.  Yes, he had good stats, but the clincher for me is he showed a lot more aggression in the game this week than he usually does and he took on Warrea-Hargreaves who thrives on aggression hit for hit and for me he came out on top despite the team loss.  I think Burgess has recognized he is the senior figure in that Souths pack now and has to lead from the front more.

Fair enough Dunbar, on your point on Burgess, it was interesting to see the stats you put up, as i didn't think he had a particularly impressive game (albeit one of the better of Souths weak pack). I thought he matched JWH but didn't think he got the better of him...........although the try certainly reflects well. It'll be interesting to see how he goes this year, because as others have pointed out Souths pack is a shadow of it's former self. They still have outstanding players like Su'a and Murray but it looks a bit lightweight and the current crop of props are not particularly impressive.

I think it's a mistake for Souths to play Murray in second row though as it negates some of his better ball playing attributes. He should be a loose forward all day long. The loss of Sam Burgess, Crichton and Sutton has left some gaping holes in that pack

[Dunbar]

2 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Fair enough Dunbar, on your point on Burgess, it was interesting to see the stats you put up, as i didn't think he had a particularly impressive game (albeit one of the better of Souths weak pack). I thought he matched JWH but didn't think he got the better of him...........although the try certainly reflects well. It'll be interesting to see how he goes this year, because as others have pointed out Souths pack is a shadow of it's former self. They still have outstanding players like Su'a and Murray but it looks a bit lightweight and the current crop of props are not particularly impressive.

I think it's a mistake for Souths to play Murray in second row though as it negates some of his better ball playing attributes. He should be a loose forward all day long. The loss of Sam Burgess, Crichton and Sutton has left some gaping holes in that pack

Agree about Murray. He would thrive at 13 even more now with his energy and his uncanny ability to break tackles and also get fast play the balls. He is wasted on the edge.

[ghost crayfish]

14 hours ago, MattSantos said:

Aye.

Enjoying Williams's defensive aggression more than anything. With the ball, he does what he needs to do and doesnt try too much which is nice. Be really interesting to see how he develops, see if he becomes more dominant at 1st receiver rather than play predominantly right side.

Tom B was very good an all, he'll need to be as that Souths pack is comparatively soft. They could struggle this year.

What is Farnworth's best position? Don't Brisbane also have the really good young Tongan waiting to play 1? Maybe he could end up replacing Boyd; a game in the centres this week would do him well then.

 

Yeah I think the young Tongan fella will be the long term fullback. Farnworth looks like a centre to me and would be a natural replacement for Boyd.

[arcticchris]

3 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

Yeah I think the young Tongan fella will be the long term fullback. Farnworth looks like a centre to me and would be a natural replacement for Boyd.

The Tongan teen Tesi Niu who is set to debut for Brisbane off the bench this week was outstanding against GB Lions last year.

 

A cardboard cutout from the stands would be an upgrade on Boyd. Seriously he is done as a first grade level player and only the money they pay him and his name sustain his position.

[ghost crayfish]

8 hours ago, arcticchris said:

The Tongan teen Tesi Niu who is set to debut for Brisbane off the bench this week was outstanding against GB Lions last year.

 

A cardboard cutout from the stands would be an upgrade on Boyd. Seriously he is done as a first grade level player and only the money they pay him and his name sustain his position.

Totally agree.

I think Farnworth should aim to cement the open right wing spot this year (he has his chance this weekend) and then he'll be in a good position to take the centre spot when Boyd decides to have mercy on all us poor suffering fans, and actually retire.

[welshmagpie]

Going slightly off topic, I watched Caleb Aekins for Penrith against Newcastle because of his Welsh heritage and the likelihood he could be called up to the World Cup squad next year.

He did okay if nothing spectacular but what I found most odd was how Penrith set up their spine - They left their left edge probably because of the power that comes from Kikau, But their fullback in this case Aekins rarely ever offers a back door option - much of his industry goes into supporting breaks in the middle.

[Dunbar]

16 minutes ago, welshmagpie said:

Going slightly off topic, I watched Caleb Aekins for Penrith against Newcastle because of his Welsh heritage and the likelihood he could be called up to the World Cup squad next year.

He did okay if nothing spectacular but what I found most odd was how Penrith set up their spine - They left their left edge probably because of the power that comes from Kikau, But their fullback in this case Aekins rarely ever offers a back door option - much of his industry goes into supporting breaks in the middle.

The Panthers definitely need to sharpen their attack and offer up more variety.  They spent a huge amount of time in the Newcastle 20 but were relatively easily snuffed out by some enthusiastic defence.

You have to think that of Newcastle hadn't suffered the early loss of a couple of key men they would have taken the win.

It shows how vital a ball playing full back is to providing options and attacking variety in the modern game.

[MattSantos]

8 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

The Panthers definitely need to sharpen their attack and offer up more variety.  They spent a huge amount of time in the Newcastle 20 but were relatively easily snuffed out by some enthusiastic defence.

You have to think that of Newcastle hadn't suffered the early loss of a couple of key men they would have taken the win.

It shows how vital a ball playing full back is to providing options and attacking variety in the modern game.

Or a 7. Missing Cleary is huge for Penrith.

With the changes in the rules, i foresee a shift from a ball playing 1 to a more running style. The trend will be to go to an edge and come back to the middle where the A and B defenders will in theory be more tired. Negates the need to have a ball playing 1 out the back of a block play - it'll still be there, but less so.

 

Regarding Farnworth, really looking forward to seeing him play centre; with an England WC hat on, we're light there so a good season or 2 and he could be the next Jack Reed

 

[Dunbar]

3 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

With the changes in the rules, i foresee a shift from a ball playing 1 to a more running style. The trend will be to go to an edge and come back to the middle where the A and B defenders will in theory be more tired. Negates the need to have a ball playing 1 out the back of a block play - it'll still be there, but less so.

Would be great to see that.

I like the idea of different teams adopting different styles and attacking setups... adds a lot more interest and variety to the game.

[MattSantos]

12 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Would be great to see that.

I like the idea of different teams adopting different styles and attacking setups... adds a lot more interest and variety to the game.

It does indeed. Just thinking on this more, i've always been a keen advocate for this style rather than the 'block' play; i'm really interested to see what happens this season from that tactical perspective.

A lot obviously depends on the players you have:

Canberra - Very runny. Split halves who want to run 1st with a runny 1. 9 is the general

Roosters - Split halves who direct and probe. Runny 1. Workman 9. Structured.

Melbourne - A hybrid of Canberra and Roosters with a general at 9 and a runny 1 and 6. Structured though.

Parra - WIP especially with their 6 and 9.

Manly - Pure general at 7. Solid 9 and runny 1 and 6.

 

Will think on this.

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by MattSantos

[welshmagpie]

3 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

It does indeed. Just thinking on this more, i've always been a keen advocate for this style rather than the 'block' play; i'm really interested to see what happens this season from that tactical perspective.

A lot obviously depends on the players you have:

Canberra - Very runny. Split halves who want to run 1st with a runny 1. 9 is the general

Roosters - Split halves who direct and probe. Runny 1. Workman 9. Structured.

Melbourne - A hybrid of Canberra and Roosters with a general at 9 and a runny 1 and 6. Structured though.

Parra - WIP especially with their 6 and 9.

Manly - Pure general at 7. Solid 9 and runny 1 and 6.

 

Will think on this.

 

What do you mean by WIP mate?

[MattSantos]

Work in progress.

Gutherson is ok/good, but hes not elite. Reminds me of Ratchford in that sense.

Brown is still new and a bit of a maverick at the moment, not sure on what his game is.

Moses is the general, clearly. But needs to be better against the better teams. A bit of a cop out, but you get the drift.

I dont know enough about Mahoney.

Parra's strength is their exit sets on the back of Sivo, Ferguson and to a certain extent Blake. I personally dont think this is good enough for them to be talked about as they are, but one of my best mates is a Parra fan so maybe im being too negative.

As i said. WIP in terms of my understanding of them.

 

[welshmagpie]

1 hour ago, MattSantos said:

Work in progress.

Gutherson is ok/good, but hes not elite. Reminds me of Ratchford in that sense.

Brown is still new and a bit of a maverick at the moment, not sure on what his game is.

Moses is the general, clearly. But needs to be better against the better teams. A bit of a cop out, but you get the drift.

I dont know enough about Mahoney.

Parra's strength is their exit sets on the back of Sivo, Ferguson and to a certain extent Blake. I personally dont think this is good enough for them to be talked about as they are, but one of my best mates is a Parra fan so maybe im being too negative.

As i said. WIP in terms of my understanding of them.

 

A fair assessment. I do like the look of Dylan Brown, excited to see how he develops. 

[DoubleD]

5 hours ago, welshmagpie said:

Going slightly off topic, I watched Caleb Aekins for Penrith against Newcastle because of his Welsh heritage and the likelihood he could be called up to the World Cup squad next year.

He did okay if nothing spectacular but what I found most odd was how Penrith set up their spine - They left their left edge probably because of the power that comes from Kikau, But their fullback in this case Aekins rarely ever offers a back door option - much of his industry goes into supporting breaks in the middle.

Has Aekins shown an interest in representing Wales? What's Welsh roots does he have?

[Dunbar]

Pretty much same again for the Brits in the NRL this week.

Williams, Hodgson and Whitehead to start for the Raiders but no Bateman yet as he is forecast to return in round 4.  Sutton also not in the 17 or reserves but I still cannot find any definitive news on whether this is injury related or not.

Graham to start at 13 for St George and Tom Burgess in the front row for Souths.

And Herbie Farnworth gets a starting opportunity on the wing for the Broncs.

Ryan Hall not in the 17 but named in the reserves for the Roosters.