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Brits in the NRL


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6 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

My god, it’s the Farnworth Inquisition. My comment around hyperbole was a comment on my own comment, which was originally light hearted but seized on in a self righteous rant. I don’t mind the group think, and am not personally attacking anyone (at least as far as I recall, and if I have I apologise), I simply believe that we would be wasting our time picking him ahead of the 4 SL players I have named above, based on having spent many hours watching all of them (thanks, Sky) and seen ourselves repeatedly mistaking average NRL players for the way forward for the national team. 

I don’t mind swimming against the tide, and would likewise be an outlier on whether Sutton was now worth a place. I am surprised by the assumption behind the praise that 1) he is more than a Jack Reed standard player, and 2) that a Brit who holds down a place at a lower level NRL side should be considered ahead of SL stars. The first is from having watched every minute of every NRL game they have shown over here in the last 18 months and the second is from overwhelming evidence. 

What an odd reply, you indeed seem to be reading a different thread.

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what sort of a deal does luke thompson have at the dogs? surely one of the heavyweights in the nrl must have him on the radar- would  imagine he would be exactly the sort of player craig bellamy would love

Edited by graveyard johnny

did the bloke who invented the phrase "one hit wonder" invent anything else?

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1 hour ago, Scubby said:

Only you keep mentioning Jack Reed. It is a bit of a lazy comparison just because he played for Brisbane. Farnworth came through the Wigan development system, is young, big and athletic and has been a promising light in a dreadful Broncos side. We have no other options at the moment. The four players you mentioned on another thread shows exactly this - two aren't even playing regularly atm never mind pulling up trees. All we are saying is that he is in the mix for a centre place in the current England squad - we are not saying he is the next Paul Newlove.

It is not a lazy comparison at all, it is directly relevant because he was 1) an NRL starter but not an NRL star, 2) played for Brisbane and 3) was a centre. It would be impossible to find a more like for like comparison. I would pick all of the 4 SL players - Gildart, Newman, Percival and King - on what I have seen of the 5 of them. I have yet to see an answer that addresses the Jack Reed precedent/comparison, simply “you’re a nutter for doubting him”.  

To show that I do not have a closed mind when it comes to players plying their trade in the NRL - which is a very good competition, don’t get me wrong - if I were looking at NRL players who could make a difference, then Burgess, Thompson, Whitehead and Radley (though I think he has said he isn’t British) would be in my squad.

I accept that Burgess played no top level rugby over here, but I can, I’m afraid, be hypocritical when it suits me... 

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2 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

It is not a lazy comparison at all, it is directly relevant because he was 1) an NRL starter but not an NRL star, 2) played for Brisbane and 3) was a centre. It would be impossible to find a more like for like comparison. I would pick all of the 4 SL players - Gildart, Newman, Percival and King - on what I have seen of the 5 of them. I have yet to see an answer that addresses the Jack Reed precedent/comparison, simply “you’re a nutter for doubting him”.  

To show that I do not have a closed mind when it comes to players plying their trade in the NRL - which is a very good competition, don’t get me wrong - if I were looking at NRL players who could make a difference, then Burgess, Thompson, Whitehead and Radley (though I think he has said he isn’t British) would be in my squad.

I accept that Burgess played no top level rugby over here, but I can, I’m afraid, be hypocritical when it suits me... 

Out of interest what are the aspects of Fanworth's game that you think are below those of Gildart, Newman, Percival and King?

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51 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

what sort of a deal does luke thompson have at the dogs? surely one of the heavyweights in the nrl must have him on the radar- would  imagine he would be exactly the sort of player craig bellamy would love

Thompson is really rocks and diamonds atm. He can obviously have an impact and lift a team but he does seem a bit lost as to his role in the Dogs set up. Maybe his disruptive start to his NRL career and playing with a poor side isn't helping but he needs more consistency to his efforts - he has so much potential.

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13 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Out of interest what are the aspects of Fanworth's game that you think are below those of Gildart, Newman, Percival and King?

It's not really worth it. To give some perspective to the state we are in - John Bateman is currently our most experienced test centre available. That is how bad things have got.

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1 minute ago, Scubby said:

It's not really worth it. To give some perspective to the state we are in - John Bateman is currently our most experienced test centre available. That is how bad things have got.

Only if we play Kallum Watkins in the second row!

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1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

Only if we play Kallum Watkins in the second row!

Kallum Watkins not even being in the discussion is a sad reflection of how things have played out. Lad should be at his peak now - shame.

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23 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Out of interest what are the aspects of Fanworth's game that you think are below those of Gildart, Newman, Percival and King?

Experience !

he's still making too many rookie errors at club level, particularly with poor defensive reads. He's also still learning when to inject himself into the game, some weeks you see him almost trying tooo hard, which then just forces him to come up with more errors. Its not being helped by plenty of other players around him also making poor decisions at the moment.

If he was playing in a much more structured and better coached team, like Melbourne, I think we'd see his game develop much faster. Prime example is Remus Smith, real rocks & diamonds player at the Dogs, prone to making the stupidest mistakes. Now he looks a completely different player and a real stand out centre.

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19 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Experience !

he's still making too many rookie errors at club level, particularly with poor defensive reads. He's also still learning when to inject himself into the game, some weeks you see him almost trying tooo hard, which then just forces him to come up with more errors. Its not being helped by plenty of other players around him also making poor decisions at the moment.

If he was playing in a much more structured and better coached team, like Melbourne, I think we'd see his game develop much faster. Prime example is Remus Smith, real rocks & diamonds player at the Dogs, prone to making the stupidest mistakes. Now he looks a completely different player and a real stand out centre.

I had a little bet with myself when I posted my question that the response would be 'defensive reads'. It always is when someone wants to criticise a centre.

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59 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Experience !

he's still making too many rookie errors at club level, particularly with poor defensive reads. He's also still learning when to inject himself into the game, some weeks you see him almost trying tooo hard, which then just forces him to come up with more errors. Its not being helped by plenty of other players around him also making poor decisions at the moment.

If he was playing in a much more structured and better coached team, like Melbourne, I think we'd see his game develop much faster. Prime example is Remus Smith, real rocks & diamonds player at the Dogs, prone to making the stupidest mistakes. Now he looks a completely different player and a real stand out centre.

Statistically Herbie Farnworth is recorded as making 1 error per game. In 6 games he has made 88 tackles, 11 missed tackles a tackle efficiency rate of 85.5 %. That doesn't really match your appraisal of him. As far as experience goes, in my opinion he is more experienced of playing against top quality centres week in week out than the vast majority of SL centres. 

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1 hour ago, burnleywelsh said:

Statistically Herbie Farnworth is recorded as making 1 error per game. In 6 games he has made 88 tackles, 11 missed tackles a tackle efficiency rate of 85.5 %. That doesn't really match your appraisal of him. As far as experience goes, in my opinion he is more experienced of playing against top quality centres week in week out than the vast majority of SL centres. 

As I say, criticism of a centre when there is no real evidence of weakness is always 'reading in defence'. It allows the poster to sound like they are tactically aware and is impossible to disprove without a touchscreen and a couple of hours.

There is no reason to think Farnworth's defence is worse than the other centre candidates.

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2 hours ago, burnleywelsh said:

Statistically Herbie Farnworth is recorded as making 1 error per game. In 6 games he has made 88 tackles, 11 missed tackles a tackle efficiency rate of 85.5 %. That doesn't really match your appraisal of him. As far as experience goes, in my opinion he is more experienced of playing against top quality centres week in week out than the vast majority of SL centres. 

The Stats don't count complete misreads, they only count things like errors and missed tackles. If he's in the wrong position to even attempt a tackle it doesn't get picked up in the Stats.

Watch his overall play, he makes plenty of rookie errors in defence. He'll no doubt improve but as things stand at the moment he isn't the answer for England. Just because he's playing in the NRL doesn't make him international class.

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I don't think the criticism of Farnworths defence really stacks up from what I have seen.

Let's also not forget that the likes of Mark Percival have been consistently overlooked because of their poor defence. Indeed second rows like Bateman have been picked before some of the centres that are being mentioned precisely because they were that poor in defence. Farnworth may or may not be the real deal but let's not pretend that he is far worse than some of the alternatives in that regard and paint a false picture.

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Just now, Damien said:

I don't think the criticism of Farnworths defence really stacks up from what I have seen.

Let's also not forget that the likes of Mark Percival have been consistently overlooked because of their poor defence. Indeed second rows like Bateman have been picked before some of the centres that are being mentioned precisely because they were that poor in defence. Farnworth may or may not be the real deal but let's not pretend that he is far worse than some of the alternatives in that regard and paint a false picture.

for far too long we have had centres like watkins and senior that look great in the domestic game but cant cut it against the kangaroos- lets give herbie a chance and get a meeting with sean wane - sam burgess - james graham and sam walker and tell him we want to build the england team around him for years to come - we wont though - we will pick luke gale prob not long back from another injury and we will fail fail fail yet again 

did the bloke who invented the phrase "one hit wonder" invent anything else?

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3 hours ago, burnleywelsh said:

Statistically Herbie Farnworth is recorded as making 1 error per game. In 6 games he has made 88 tackles, 11 missed tackles a tackle efficiency rate of 85.5 %. That doesn't really match your appraisal of him. As far as experience goes, in my opinion he is more experienced of playing against top quality centres week in week out than the vast majority of SL centres. 

To be fair, missed tackles is not an indication of a player’s ability to read the game. 

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53 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

To be fair, missed tackles is not an indication of a player’s ability to read the game. 

True. But Saint Toppy alluded to plenty of rookie errors in his overall game. The stats don’t back that up. 
I agree with him that he hasn’t been helped by his teammates. He’s had a variety of defensive partners this season. That doesn’t help.
 

I’d genuinely be interested to know what centres England have at their disposal that are spot on with their defensive reads. 

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1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

Just because he's playing in the NRL doesn't make him international class.

I’d say if your playing every week and holding your own in the NRL you should be in the squad , because it’s the best standard there is and the nearest thing to international level , with the blokes you’ll be coming up against 

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On 03/05/2021 at 13:12, Exiled Wiganer said:

It is not a lazy comparison at all, it is directly relevant because he was 1) an NRL starter but not an NRL star, 2) played for Brisbane and 3) was a centre. It would be impossible to find a more like for like comparison. I would pick all of the 4 SL players - Gildart, Newman, Percival and King - on what I have seen of the 5 of them. I have yet to see an answer that addresses the Jack Reed precedent/comparison, simply “you’re a nutter for doubting him”.  

To show that I do not have a closed mind when it comes to players plying their trade in the NRL - which is a very good competition, don’t get me wrong - if I were looking at NRL players who could make a difference, then Burgess, Thompson, Whitehead and Radley (though I think he has said he isn’t British) would be in my squad.

I accept that Burgess played no top level rugby over here, but I can, I’m afraid, be hypocritical when it suits me... 

He played 50 odd games over here before heading to the NRL.

People called Romans they go the house

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1 hour ago, burnleywelsh said:

Selective Stats picking. So he had 1 good game against by far the weakest team in the league a month ago. The Dogs were that bad he was one of 3 Brisbane players who ran for over 200metres in that game. Meade, Isako & Carrigan also made more runs than him, with Meade & Carrigan also having more post contact metres. 

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So stats against weak teams don’t count...??

Of all the statistical data that is available on Herbie Farnworth, I have yet to come across anything poor. So no, I’m not being selective.

You’ve obviously got a downer on the lad Toppy. It’s a shame that you can’t acknowledge the fact that a young British athlete is more than holding his own in the toughest Rugby competition on the planet. Never mind. I’m still hoping he’s got a Welsh granny......

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59 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Selective Stats picking. So he had 1 good game against by far the weakest team in the league a month ago. The Dogs were that bad he was one of 3 Brisbane players who ran for over 200metres in that game. Meade, Isako & Carrigan also made more runs than him, with Meade & Carrigan also having more post contact metres. 

He had a good game against Gold Coast last weekend. No defensive mistakes and big and strong taking the ball into contact. A nice finish for a try too. I see more than enough to show that he offers more at international level than much of the other contenders.

Those weak teams in the NRL are also a damn site better than many SL teams.

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