The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[Man of Kent]

Jon Wells let slip that Toronto want the same three year amnesty from relegation that Catalans had. Controversy corner!

[Whippet13]

15 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Jon Wells let slip that Toronto want the same three year amnesty from relegation that Catalans had. Controversy corner!

I spotted that. I guess if don't ask, you don't get.

What we don't know of course is if the SL said yes, no or (most likely) maybe.

[Man of Kent]

7 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

I spotted that. I guess if don't ask, you don't get.

What we don't know of course is if the SL said yes, no or (most likely) maybe.

Agreed. They seem open minded.

The interesting thing is SL has taken over doing the homework on whether transatlantic rugby is viable from the RFL. If it’s a no to Toronto, it’s a no to Ottawa and New York as well.

[PhilCarrington]

40 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

AFAIK, no. Good idea though. Wouldn't be the first time Canadians have had to come to the aid of the Brits.

They are your club's players, so the fans would be supporting their own. And not all of them are Brits.

We all know about the Canadian contribution to the allies in WW2, multiple references on this chain already. We're still very grateful, but concerned you are obsessed with it - are you Mark Francois in disguise?

[Mr Frisky]

3 hours ago, Mushy said:

Four week delay? If it does turn out to be a NO then hopefully that will give Super League a chance to formulate a strategic plan that might show they’ve any vision at all other than managed decline. I need something to believe in to stay involved in this sport as increasing irrelevance doesn’t  do it for me.
 

If there’s no vision and a no decision eventually then despite being a former investor in a former super league club and a lifelong fan, I am not sure I’ll want to have anything to do with the sport any more. Not sure that’ll sway any decisions...

Buying a Paris shirt 20 years ago didnt make you and investor marra...

[TIWIT]

45 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Jon Wells let slip that Toronto want the same three year amnesty from relegation that Catalans had. Controversy corner!

I have no problem with that... but that's just me. I think I can say with some confidence that many here disagree.

[Mr Frisky]

2 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

I spotted that. I guess if don't ask, you don't get.

What we don't know of course is if the SL said yes, no or (most likely) maybe.

It makes sense, you can see some money men willing to put a lot of money into TWP and you can understand that they want some security- Cats were allowed so why not TWP??

Still think what ever happens they should announce no relegation for 2021 then promote 2 so we have a 14 team SL in 2022.

That gives TWP 2 years guaranteed and if they then cant stay up in a 14 team SL with 2 new Championship clubs in they probably dont deserve to stay up.

[TIWIT]

11 minutes ago, PhilCarrington said:

They are your club's players, so the fans would be supporting their own. And not all of them are Brits.

We all know about the Canadian contribution to the allies in WW2, multiple references on this chain already. We're still very grateful, but concerned you are obsessed with it - are you Mark Francois in disguise?

And has been pointed out many times on these pages none of them actually live here. Because if they did they would have eligible for the wage subsidy programme from the Canadian government.

There are literally millions of British-Canadians here so it's kind of hard to ignore the ties to the UK. My own ancestors came here almost 200 years ago from Cornwall, so it's safe to say that no, I'm not Mark Francois. Who's he?

[Robin Evans]

8 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

I have no problem with that... but that's just me. I think I can say with some confidence that many here disagree.

Yup!

[Dave T]

Ouch

[Oldbear]

1 hour ago, PhilCarrington said:

And hitting the 10,000 capacity depends on them playing all their games there. For the first few months they won't be. Crowds this season   for their home games were a long way from that. 

Hitting the capacity is going to be impossible given that

1. There’s still no sign as to when live sport with fans will return

2. Even when fans do return it’s likely to be on a limited capacity basis until a vaccine is widely available.

The more you look at it the more it makes sense to defer to 2022.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

55 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Ouch

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/initial-toronto-bid-disappointing-says-elstone-as-wolfpack-given-more-time-to-convince-super-league/

Yeah, not very encouraging, Elstone saying Toronto should just be pleased to have been given a second chance to present their case. 

[RobertAM]

Certain parts of the statement don't make sense...are they reviewing the viability of  Superleague in Canada/NA or the viability of Rugby League in Canada. If it is the latter surely Elstone would supporting Rimmer (as head of the RFL) in the deliberations..if they are looking into whether SuperLeague will work over here then it is all on Elstone and takes us back to the great debate prior to the 2019 MPG when they allegedly told TWP "you can come in but no SKY money and you have to continue to pay all related travel etc." 

To me it all goes back to the silliness of having 2 seperate bodies running the sport..one trying the grow the sport (regardless of whether you agree with their approach or not) and another solely focused  on maintaining control  of a shrinking single source revenue stream.

[TIWIT]

55 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Ouch

Oooh Carlo gets a big FAIL on his report.

Of course, usually the person giving the report is also present to answer questions and explain further. Which LiVolsi will presumably do next month.

[TIWIT]

7 minutes ago, RobertAM said:

Certain parts of the statement don't make sense...are they reviewing the viability of  Superleague in Canada/NA or the viability of Rugby League in Canada. If it is the latter surely Elstone would supporting Rimmer (as head of the RFL) in the deliberations..if they are looking into whether SuperLeague will work over here then it is all on Elstone and takes us back to the great debate prior to the 2019 MPG when they allegedly told TWP "you can come in but no SKY money and you have to continue to pay all related travel etc." 

To me it all goes back to the silliness of having 2 seperate bodies running the sport..one trying the grow the sport (regardless of whether you agree with their approach or not) and another solely focused  on maintaining control  of a shrinking single source revenue stream.

Well said. Although there will be those here who will say you (and I) misrember those events leading up to last year's MPG. There was no ultimatum. TWP knew the exact terms of entry long beforehand and had already agreed to them.

Which of course does not explain why these discussions were still going on the day before the game and were only then announced.

[RobertAM]

it certainly seems that Ottawa will also be under the microscope...do we take it SL  (ie Elstone) will be double checking the work RL (ie Wood/Rimmer) did back in 2016 and in 2018/19 prior to approving Perez and the Aces. Can assume they will also be putting NYRL on the petri dish. Will Canada Rugby League and Bob Jowett be called as witness?

that's a lot of work to be done in 4 weeks...

[Tommygilf]

There's a potentially serious divide here if the Super League CEO and the leading clubs in the league (3 of whom were responsible for appointing him) are at odds over the league's future. That doesn't seem very workable for very long.

[Man of Kent]

12 minutes ago, RobertAM said:

it certainly seems that Ottawa will also be under the microscope...do we take it SL  (ie Elstone) will be double checking the work RL (ie Wood/Rimmer) did back in 2016 and in 2018/19 prior to approving Perez and the Aces. Can assume they will also be putting NYRL on the petri dish. Will Canada Rugby League and Bob Jowett be called as witness?

that's a lot of work to be done in 4 weeks...

Fascinating, isn’t it.

I assume part of this will be to look at player development and how Toronto intend to ‘put rugby balls in kids’ hands’ as they have so often stated...

[RobertAM]

8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

There's a potentially serious divide here if the Super League CEO and the leading clubs in the league (3 of whom were responsible for appointing him) are at odds over the league's future. That doesn't seem very workable for very long.

I don't see Elstone as a visionary, more a CFO charged with making sure the incomings exceed or at least cover the outgoings. Given the scope and range of what they have to cover in the next month working together there  is the potential for Elstone and Rimmer to come to blows

[RobertAM]

1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

Fascinating, isn’t it.

I assume part of this will be to look at player development and how Toronto intend to ‘put rugby balls in kids’ hands’ as they have so often stated...

You're limiting it to Toronto...based on the terms of reference mentioned by Elstone and stated in the press release they will be asking Ottawa/NYRL and CRLA that very question...now CRLA and its members are doing it, admittedly on a smaller scale than what you have in the UK, but we do have nascent RL programs here..

[Mr Frisky]

1 hour ago, TIWIT said:

And has been pointed out many times on these pages none of them actually live here. Because if they did they would have eligible for the wage subsidy programme from the Canadian government.

There are literally millions of British-Canadians here so it's kind of hard to ignore the ties to the UK. My own ancestors came here almost 200 years ago from Cornwall, so it's safe to say that no, I'm not Mark Francois. Who's he?

Are you drawn to tin, have questionable dress sense, keep a nice front lawn but have a very poor sense of humour?

[TIWIT]

5 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Are you drawn to tin, have questionable dress sense, keep a nice front lawn but have a very poor sense of humour?

Yes. But what's that got to do with anything?

[Man of Kent]

7 minutes ago, RobertAM said:

You're limiting it to Toronto...based on the terms of reference mentioned by Elstone and stated in the press release they will be asking Ottawa/NYRL and CRLA that very question...now CRLA and its members are doing it, admittedly on a smaller scale than what you have in the UK, but we do have nascent RL programs here..

Doesn’t say anything about the CRLA, it says NA clubs.

They are reviewing the decision by the RFL to allow Toronto and Ottawa in, possibly with a view to getting rid of them. You’d think commitments by Toronto to Canadian player development will be part of this.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

This is such a mess. So another four weeks and likely early November for firm decision after Elstone and his cronies have had their meetings. Sounds like they arent going to be let back in, so that's another four weeks lost on a solution to fill their place for 2021. Here you go Toulouse, Fev, whoever F-all time to prepare moving up to SL.

The disconnect between SL and RFL sounds a disgrace. Why is Elstone only now interested in the plans for Canadian expansion? Shouldn't SL have been on day 1 reviewing the entry into the system. He is talking like it's the first he's heard of these Canadian teams.

LiVolsi sounds like another chancer with almost guaranteed failure on the horizon. He isnt a fan of the sport, he wants to promote his product, get a bit of limelight then he'll be off. 

Guarantees against relegation, ok fine, maybe that isn't a bad idea but you're asking SL and RFL to a degree to restructure their system again 2 years after the last one. I'm actually a fan of the guaranteed expansion team slots but it's late in the day to be implementing that now for next year. 

Whole situation is a farce. 

[TIWIT]

20 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

This is such a mess. So another four weeks and likely early November for firm decision after Elstone and his cronies have had their meetings. Sounds like they arent going to be let back in, so that's another four weeks lost on a solution to fill their place for 2021. Here you go Toulouse, Fev, whoever F-all time to prepare moving up to SL.

The disconnect between SL and RFL sounds a disgrace. Why is Elstone only now interested in the plans for Canadian expansion? Shouldn't SL have been on day 1 reviewing the entry into the system. He is talking like it's the first he's heard of these Canadian teams.

LiVolsi sounds like another chancer with almost guaranteed failure on the horizon. He isnt a fan of the sport, he wants to promote his product, get a bit of limelight then he'll be off. 

Guarantees against relegation, ok fine, maybe that isn't a bad idea but you're asking SL and RFL to a degree to restructure their system again 2 years after the last one. I'm actually a fan of the guaranteed expansion team slots but it's late in the day to be implementing that now for next year. 

Whole situation is a farce. 

If they weren't going to readmit TWP then why would they postpone their decision? The fact they did suggests they at least are keeping an open mind.

Or maybe they're still waiting on Sky to decide if they want TWP and SBW in SL or not.