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Israel Folau


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9 minutes ago, absentee thoughtlord said:

"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you." - Nietzsche

I have done half a degree on political philosophy if you want this to descend into a quote vs counter-quote fest that will achieve absolutely nothing. 

I'm well aware of the risks of illiberal censorship of free speech being enacted in laws etc and the potential threat that poses to our society. That said, standing up to homophobia is not "becoming a monster". 

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1 minute ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

People and the game are quick to ban somebody that has said he doesnt believe in homosexuality, amongst other things. What crime has Folau committed? Has he hurt or attacks physically anybody? So why stop him from playing? Is it even legal to even try and stop him? We may not like what Folau believes or has said. But is that reason to ban him? What happened to freedom of speech?

Funny how people and the game want to ban Folau, yet accept and even immortalize people Who are criminals or have regularly committed criminal acts like Drug taking/traffiking, physical attacks on others, including Partners, Police etc, fraud etc. Why is it OK to have repeat criminal offenders like Greg Bird, Andrew Johns, Zak Hardakre, Joel Tomkins, Shane Flanaghan, Kenny Edwards involved in the game and lauded as Heroes and not Folau Who has done nothing wrong

I would rather have somebody like Folau involved in the game, that does not act like a sweet and lovely person or commit criminal acts before a few other individuals mentioned.

Its not legal to try and stop him no. But common decency and financial principles should tell you that as a club you should want to stay miles away from him just for the bad PR it generates. 

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34 minutes ago, absentee thoughtlord said:

Just as a contrast, the replies to the Pink News twitter feed on the story are far more humorous than those on here.

Gist of it is, they think he's probably in the closet.

So actual gay people can see the lighter side whilst we have the fake moral outrage on here

Shame we don't have more lgbt posters the discussion would be more pleasant 

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18 minutes ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

People and the game are quick to ban somebody that has said he doesnt believe in homosexuality, amongst other things. What crime has Folau committed? Has he hurt or attacks physically anybody? So why stop him from playing? Is it even legal to even try and stop him? We may not like what Folau believes or has said. But is that reason to ban him? What happened to freedom of speech?

Funny how people and the game want to ban Folau, yet accept and even immortalize people Who are criminals or have regularly committed criminal acts like Drug taking/traffiking, physical attacks on others, including Partners, Police etc, fraud etc. Why is it OK to have repeat criminal offenders like Greg Bird, Andrew Johns, Zak Hardakre, Joel Tomkins, Shane Flanaghan, Kenny Edwards involved in the game and lauded as Heroes and not Folau Who has done nothing wrong

I would rather have somebody like Folau involved in the game, that does not act like a dick or commit criminal acts before a few other individuals mentioned.

I'll add this too. If Folau had said this in this country it would be against the law. If he said it on the terraces of a team it should result in the same prosecution as racism if due process is followed. 

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4 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

So actual gay people can see the lighter side whilst we have the fake moral outrage on here

Shame we don't have more lgbt posters the discussion would be more pleasant 

They have to take a brighter side approach. If they were angry about every homophobe they came across they would never smile and the website would be depressing!

Describing it as fake moral outrage is unfair and untrue. Catalans have brought the game I love and care about, and am associated with through my support for my team etc, into total disrepute.

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I got here late, have not read the 24 pages but would like to say the following:

- I disliked Folau probably before any of you, for the simple fact that he turned his back on Rugby League!  Anyone who does this, for any reason, is a traitor in my mind and I have no time for them.

- Seeing how he has been treated though, since his whole twitter fiasco has made me end up almost being on his side now.

- The twitter lynch-mob makes me sick and seem to think they have a monopoly on morality.

- Folau is now caught between a rock and a hard place.  People are complaining that he never apologised.  He could apologise for saying what he said, but the lynch mob would not leave it there.  They would press him about it:  Do you still believe that to be true?  Go on, say you don't believe in what you said.  It will go on forever and it's a lose-lose situation for him now, the damage is done.  So silence is probably still his safest option.

- And lastly, the buzz word at the moment:  'inclusive'.  We are an 'inclusive' sport, I keep hearing.  Can someone please define that word for me!?  Because all the ones preaching 'inclusiveness' seem the most hell-bent on EXCLUDING him for what he said!

The biggest season of SL is upon us.  I hope we can just get on with it and enjoy some world-class rugby league!  And I hope Folau can bring back some of his old magic and just let his footy do the talking.

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Just now, Tommygilf said:

They have to take a brighter side approach. If they were angry about every homophobe they came across they would never smile and the website would be depressing!

Describing it as fake moral outrage is unfair and untrue.

Ok let's see how long the outrage lasts.

Is every super league player.now going to be asked if he is homophobic as well?

I Guarantee you he isn't the only one that will be 

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2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I have done half a degree on political philosophy if you want this to descend into a quote vs counter-quote fest that will achieve absolutely nothing. 

I'm well aware of the risks of illiberal censorship of free speech being enacted in laws etc and the potential threat that poses to our society. That said, standing up to homophobia is not "becoming a monster". 

I don't mind counter-quotes, and I'm sure no one else will given that this thread is now [checks notes] 24 pages long.

Yes, standing up to homophobia or any other prejudice is always right. Denying someone work because they hold an absurd viewpoint and have not acted against the law in that state? Dogpiling? That's tyranny. That's the essence of the quote.

Folau is a twonk for the claptrap he has spouted. We know it, even if he doesn't.

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9 hours ago, Dunbar said:

In what way is his life more pure than ours?

I don't cheat on my wife, or steal or commit crimes or hurt anyone deliberately etc etc.

And as an atheist, it's not that I don't do any of this because I fear being burned in an eternal fire or seek eternal life sitting on a cloud. I don't do them because I am a decent human being who believes in the essential morality of humanity and the ethics of behaving in a moral way.

Who is more moral, the person who is following the teaching of a supreme being seeking reward or fearing punishment or the person who acts morally purely through choice?

Like I said , most of us ; not all of us

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1 minute ago, langpark said:

And lastly, the buzz word at the moment:  'inclusive'.  We are an 'inclusive' sport, I keep hearing.  Can someone please define that word for me!?  Because all the ones preaching 'inclusiveness' seem the most hell-bent on EXCLUDING him for what he said!

We're a sport that is inclusive of people that are inclusive. Is that hard to understand?

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4 minutes ago, langpark said:

I got here late, have not read the 24 pages but would like to say the following:

- I disliked Folau probably before any of you, for the simple fact that he turned his back on Rugby League!  Anyone who does this, for any reason, is a traitor in my mind and I have no time for them.

- Seeing how he has been treated though, since his whole twitter fiasco has made me end up almost being on his side now.

- The twitter lynch-mob makes me sick and seem to think they have a monopoly on morality.

- Folau is now caught between a rock and a hard place.  People are complaining that he never apologised.  He could apologise for saying what he said, but the lynch mob would not leave it there.  They would press him about it:  Do you still believe that to be true?  Go on, say you don't believe in what you said.  It will go on forever and it's a lose-lose situation for him now, the damage is done.  So silence is probably still his safest option.

- And lastly, the buzz word at the moment:  'inclusive'.  We are an 'inclusive' sport, I keep hearing.  Can someone please define that word for me!?  Because all the ones preaching 'inclusiveness' seem the most hell-bent on EXCLUDING him for what he said!

The biggest season of SL is upon us.  I hope we can just get on with it and enjoy some world-class rugby league!  And I hope Folau can bring back some of his old magic and just let his footy do the talking.

Yes I hate folau for what he's done to league. 

I suspect part of the reason the nrl didn't allow him.back is that and his arrogance as well 

 

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1 minute ago, absentee thoughtlord said:

I don't mind counter-quotes, and I'm sure no one else will given that this thread is now [checks notes] 24 pages long.

Yes, standing up to homophobia or any other prejudice is always right. Denying someone work because they hold an absurd viewpoint and have not acted against the law in that state? Dogpiling? That's tyranny. That's the essence of the quote.

Folau is a twonk for the claptrap he has spouted. We know it, even if he doesn't.

Thats the thing even folau supporters on here think he's an idiot and probably homophobic 

People are missing the point 

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2 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

Ok let's see how long the outrage lasts.

Is every super league player.now going to be asked if he is homophobic as well?

I Guarantee you he isn't the only one that will be 

He is the only one that has used his profile and status to express those views with the explicit intention of spreading them through preaching. None of the rest have - our Polynesian players for example might sympathise with what he's said, it certainly was also the case in RU, but they haven't been stupid enough to come out and say it.

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1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

He is the only one that has used his profile and status to express those views with the explicit intention of spreading them through preaching. None of the rest have - our Polynesian players for example might sympathise with what he's said, it certainly was also the case in RU, but they haven't been stupid enough to come out and say it.

Yes he has been stupid.

He did howwver receive a lot of support from fellow islander team mates.  

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7 minutes ago, absentee thoughtlord said:

I don't mind counter-quotes, and I'm sure no one else will given that this thread is now [checks notes] 24 pages long.

Yes, standing up to homophobia or any other prejudice is always right. Denying someone work because they hold an absurd viewpoint and have not acted against the law in that state? Dogpiling? That's tyranny. That's the essence of the quote.

Folau is a twonk for the claptrap he has spouted. We know it, even if he doesn't.

"In America the majority raises formidable barriers around the liberty of opinion; within these barriers an author may write what he pleases, but woe to him if he goes beyond them." Alexis de Tocqueville

That's how democracy works. It has an opinion and enforces it. Dogpiling is its most brutish appearance and is undesirable but is the last resort of a majority opinion to assert itself when the laws and common principles cannot.

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5 minutes ago, langpark said:

so, perhaps 'selectively inclusive' would be a more appropriate term?

No, inclusive of inclusivity - not blindly inclusive of prejudice and prejudicial people who can't keep those prejudices to themselves, as that would damage the inclusivity of the whole. Keeping your views that are harmful to others to yourself is making yourself more inclusive to the whole. 

"Not stupidly inclusive so that the point of being inclusive is lost" would perhaps be better then?

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11 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

Yes he has been stupid.

He did howwver receive a lot of support from fellow islander team mates.  

Over here we had Bristol fans protesting Billy Vunipola (Saracens player) supporting Folau on social media. Other players were told by their clubs to steer well away from the issue altogether.

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1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Over here we had Bristol fans protesting Billy Vunipola (Saracens player) supporting Folau on social media. Other players were told by their clubs to steer well away from the issue altogether.

Loads of wallabies supported him

It sounds like lots of other players over there did too 

He's not the only religious hardliner 

See the point I'm making 

He's just stupid for being so open about it 

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1 minute ago, aj1908 said:

Loads of wallabies supported him

It sounds like lots of other players over there did too 

He's not the only religious hardliner 

See the point I'm making 

He's just stupid for being so open about it 

Exactly.

But he has been so open about it and should face the consequences.

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39 minutes ago, absentee thoughtlord said:

I don't mind counter-quotes, and I'm sure no one else will given that this thread is now [checks notes] 24 pages long.

Yes, standing up to homophobia or any other prejudice is always right. Denying someone work because they hold an absurd viewpoint and have not acted against the law in that state? Dogpiling? That's tyranny. That's the essence of the quote.

Folau is a twonk for the claptrap he has spouted. We know it, even if he doesn't.

He has stated his beliefs , some of which may not fit in certain sections of society ; you don’t speak for me when you finish sentences with “we know it”

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