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Championship clubs consider structure changes

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2 hours ago, Robthegasman said:

But there is now 20/20 or T20 and that gets people excited because for want of a better phrase the players can throw caution to the wind and thrash the ball out a bit.

And I doubt they would fall asleep whilst the game is on,unless of course they are p155ed after drinking too much ale??

They have only 4 hours Rob not enough time to get drunk and fall asleep?

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9 minutes ago, HarrogateKnights said:

Personally I would like the Summer Bash experience at Blackpool as a nines tournament would definitely go to that.   

As I said , to each their own , not fancy a long weekend in Girona in late Jan instead ?

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2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

The same with the championship. If clubs are needing a hand out from SL to be sustainable then they arent sustainable. 

The money coming down from SL should be for doing things, not just to keep going. 

That obviously does not apply to any present SL clubs does it Scotchy?

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Just now, Harry Stottle said:

That obviously does not apply to any present SL clubs does it Scotchy?

Obviously. SL doesnt need handouts from SL to be sustainable. Such a thing would be impossible 

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11 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It would do more than your current idea which is just give up

Nowhere have I said ' give up ' , just that the non traditional southern clubs would/will be at risk if the funding ends 

I believe the heartland clubs will survive , albeit all as semi pro 

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50 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

So just to get this straight, some Championship and League One fans are on here predicting the sky will fall when the next set of TV negotiations happens but want their part-time clubs, made up of blokes who work full time, to pay to fly to France for a long weekend, likely 3-4 days, to play in a tournament in balmy 11 degree heat, which is Carcassonne’s highest temperature this month? 
 

No!

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12 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

What and waste good supping time, have you been to International one dayers or for that matter test matches Gubby?

I haven't Harry 

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41 minutes ago, HarrogateKnights said:

Its good that we are actively engaging with chairmen and key personnel early on. I wonder if they could have a split East/West so you have Super league (national/International) and then 2 divisions of equal standings say Championship East and Championship West (could be different names) with all Championship and league 1 clubs involved that way the playoffs could involve both divisions and the winner could still be promoted to Super League

Already been done HK, when we had one division of 30 clubs, Batley played in the Lancashire draw to even things up.

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19 minutes ago, HarrogateKnights said:

At the moment we have 4 areas to control which is difficult, Cumbria, Lancashire, Yorkshire and expansion. Needs creative ideas but is doable to offer a watchable product that keeps the tradionalists and modernists happy

It's a money issue HK , as I put a much bigger % of the expansion ( and Cumbrian currently ) clubs income is travel costs , without that expense covered , they will struggle , IMO

Edited by GUBRATS

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24 minutes ago, HarrogateKnights said:

At the moment we have 4 areas to control which is difficult, Cumbria, Lancashire, Yorkshire and expansion. Needs creative ideas but is doable to offer a watchable product that keeps the tradionalists and modernists happy

And you believe that 9's is the product that cross will that divide HK? Not for me sorry.

Edited by Harry Stottle

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1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

As a seasoned supporter and attendee, you don't know what your missing Gubby. 

Too old to do an all dayer now Harry , plus I'd get lost on the way home 

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28 minutes ago, HarrogateKnights said:

At the moment we have 4 areas to control which is difficult, Cumbria, Lancashire, Yorkshire and expansion. Needs creative ideas but is doable to offer a watchable product that keeps the tradionalists and modernists happy

If its look after your own time then that's 2 areas, as why should Lancs and Yorks give a hoot about Cumbria/Expansion in a PT structure?

So we get shut of Newcastle, Workie, Haven and Barrow plus any future expansion clubs will have to be straight into SL ie New York/Ottawa etc with Hemel, Both Wales and Coventry binned to local leagues.

Should end up with a decent PT comp with 500 gates across Yorks and Lancs

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At the moment there are 25 clubs in both the Championship and Championship 1 with I think Ottawa due to come in next year from what I have read.That will leave 26 clubs.And I certainly cannot see a single division of 26 clubs.

 I honestly think that come the end of 2021 we be saying goodbye to some clubs.And I think it will be a case of only the strongest clubs will survive.

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7 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Going off and doing their own thing is literally why SL was invented and why Elstone has a job.

 

I bet the Sky TV negotiators won't be quaking in their boots when the SL top brass are in front of them.

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I'm not overly pessimistic about clubs surviving. Frankly many of the clubs are pretty much 'zombie clubs' only surviving at that level because of handouts. 

You have clubs like west wales in L1 who can barely win a game, to clubs on the championship like swinton who are bouncing around the bottom of the championship with no home and no base to ever build from.

Then you have clubs like batley and dewsbury who are solid sustainable community clubs who dont really need to be anything more

The structure we have now doesnt really help those clubs, they are an after though for it.

There are many formats it could take. A bigger championship adding the heartland L1 sides would give you a 20 team league. Whilst that would be a big step up for teams like Hunslet to play teams like leigh they would also be in a league with keighley and workington and swinton. There should be plenty of competitive games for everyone. Especially if there is a more realistic salary cap.

Then L1 would only have 5 sides but as a true development league the focus is on developing players and clubs in new areas and they arent having to compete with the heartland L1 clubs. That step down can make it easier for expansion clubs to compete, quickly growing the number of clubs in there. Especially as teams like ottawa and NYC join. Removing the need for these sides to bring in players to compete with the top L1 clubs they too could look to give a shot to new players.

There are unlimited options for the game when the focus is.changed to.doing what is best for those clubs 

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In terms of the lower leagues getting its own TV deal, that’s very unlikely really. I can’t imagine Sky Sports will be doing much more than offering the game, let alone the lower leagues, a minimal deal in order for them to focus their energies on keeping its big events, such as Premier League Football, F1 and England Cricket, especially after people have seen football successfully taken to a subscription service in Amazon. 

Terrestrial TV? It’s a nice idea and one we’d all get behind as Rugby League fans but are Channels 4 and 5 really interested in Batley v Oldham on a Sunday afternoon? Five has, I think, a Premiership Rugby highlights programme and shows live European Championship games, a contract that will hold some weight and one they’ll want to keep, I can’t see them changing their focus and wanting to show second tier sport live, especially one with the standing of Rugby League in this country at present. 

Monetise the OurLeague App? Probably the most likely. I’m not sure how many people have the free membership in its current guise, I’m even less sure how many are active users and I’m even less sure how many of those active users actually watch the live games when they’re shown, so how many will pay, let’s say, £5.99 a month for the same thing they’re getting for free now. Even 20,000 subscribers at £5.99 generates £1,437,600 per annum, before you even think about costs associated with producing the coverage, under our current set up, that’s £57,504 evenly split between the twenty-five lower league clubs. I think I’m right in saying they get more than that now and that’s based on £0 as production costs. This could turn out to be a decent idea, as there may still be some funds trickled down the ladder and the addition of that money and any money generated from an OurLeague type subscription, it could be close to/more than the money clubs receive now. 

If that doesn’t materialise, what else? I know The BBL (British Basketball League) air all their games on YouTube. They had a subscription service in the past and this year chose to go to YouTube so it’s their experience could be valuable to the lower leagues of Rugby League. How much, if anything at all, the BBL receives from games on YouTube, I’m not sure at all and just because something is accessible as easy as YouTube is these days, it doesn’t mean that suddenly thousands will flock to watch it on YouTube and even then, if a game is live for free on YouTube and you have a Rugby season that starts at a similar time to ours does, are you going to venture out on a Sunday afternoon to stand in the middle of Storm Fui Fui or whatever the Met Office have called it or are you going to pick up your phone, laptop, TV remote etc and watch it at home? This also has further potential detrimental effects on clubs income.

As for structures, the current structures for the Championship and League One is questionable. For a very select few in the Championship, they want to keep hold of the opportunity to gain promotion, which is fine as it’s been a part of our sport and all major UK sports for the majority of the past however many years. For the rest, do the pipe dream of promotion probably keeps them going. 

League One though, that’s a mess. It was a development league for a while then that plan seemed to last for a couple of years at most and then the clubs they brought in were left to fight the tide without a paddle and it’s only Coventry from that era still going as a club. Do we go back to a development league and use it to be the first rung of the ladder for new clubs coming in from North America and elsewhere? Do we need two leagues below Super League ? 

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37 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I'm not overly pessimistic about clubs surviving. Frankly many of the clubs are pretty much 'zombie clubs' only surviving at that level because of handouts. 

You have clubs like west wales in L1 who can barely win a game, to clubs on the championship like swinton who are bouncing around the bottom of the championship with no home and no base to ever build from.

Then you have clubs like batley and dewsbury who are solid sustainable community clubs who dont really need to be anything more

The structure we have now doesnt really help those clubs, they are an after though for it.

There are many formats it could take. A bigger championship adding the heartland L1 sides would give you a 20 team league. Whilst that would be a big step up for teams like Hunslet to play teams like leigh they would also be in a league with keighley and workington and swinton. There should be plenty of competitive games for everyone. Especially if there is a more realistic salary cap.

Then L1 would only have 5 sides but as a true development league the focus is on developing players and clubs in new areas and they arent having to compete with the heartland L1 clubs. That step down can make it easier for expansion clubs to compete, quickly growing the number of clubs in there. Especially as teams like ottawa and NYC join. Removing the need for these sides to bring in players to compete with the top L1 clubs they too could look to give a shot to new players.

There are unlimited options for the game when the focus is.changed to.doing what is best for those clubs 

A 20 team Championship may not be a bad idea.

And I think the way it would be done is that all clubs will play each other once(19 games)

And then once they are complete the league splits and the top 10 play each other once and the bottom 10 play each other once like in the Scottish Premier League.

I guess this is a possibility.

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2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

And you believe that 9's is the product that cross will that divide HK? Not for me sorry.

No don't believe 9s is the way forward. I would be open to a 9s tournament instead of summer bash though

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2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

It's a money issue HK , as I put a much bigger % of the expansion ( and Cumbrian currently ) clubs income is travel costs , without that expense covered , they will struggle , IMO

Totally agree its a money issue. Ideally the overseas teams should be playing in their own leagues. The French teams together. Regional leagues below super league might be potentially the way to go

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Actually this is a debate going on across UK Sport not just in Rugby League

In Soccer

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50674331

in Rugby Union

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51473029

The real question is what is a sustainable second tier professional structure ?.

My money would be on a franchised Super League 1 and 2 of 10 clubs in each with P&R between the two with the second tier having a lower salary cap. From a TV point of view you would have the "jeopardy" of relegation from the top flight with the excitement of the race to Super League 1. A bit like the 8/8/8 only more sensibly across the two divisions over a season with a soft landing for the relegated club and not too steep a financial climb for the promoted club.

There would be franchise criteria though for membership of both leagues around finances, player development and geographical locatio,n as with the first time round, to determine who "adds value" to the game, its sponsors, growing the playing base and TV

And if you asked a select eight Championship clubs "do you want in ?" then the answer is going to be "ta very much" and the rest will be abandoned. That is the way of things when it comes to self-preservation.

I am not saying that I approve of all of this, but with the next TV deal offering less money do not be surprised if "the powers that be" within the game have been thinking about something similar to that which I have outlined here.

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3 minutes ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

Actually this is a debate going on across UK Sport not just in Rugby League

In Soccer

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50674331

in Rugby Union

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51473029

The real question is what is a sustainable second tier professional structure ?.

My money would be on a franchised Super League 1 and 2 of 10 clubs in each with P&R between the two with the second tier having a lower salary cap. From a TV point of view you would have the "jeopardy" of relegation from the top flight with the excitement of the race to Super League 1. A bit like the 8/8/8 only more sensibly across the two divisions over a season with a soft landing for the relegated club and not too steep a financial climb for the promoted club.

There would be franchise criteria though for membership of both leagues around finances, player development and geographical locatio,n as with the first time round, to determine who "adds value" to the game, its sponsors, growing the playing base and TV

And if you asked a select eight Championship clubs "do you want in ?" then the answer is going to be "ta very much" and the rest will be abandoned. That is the way of things when it comes to self-preservation.

I am not saying that I approve of all of this, but with the next TV deal offering less money do not be surprised if "the powers that be" within the game have been thinking about something similar to that which I have outlined here.

There’s twelve Super League clubs, where are the other eight coming from when only London and Toulouse are the only professional sides outside of the Super League?

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