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Martyn Sadler

When will Rugby League return?

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4 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Not much point of behind closed doors Championship rugby as there’s no TV contract to fulfil.

However, if Sky is paying its fees to SL,  that should trickle down to the lower leagues, which at least helps with the finances. That and furloughing should mean the immediate future of clubs is secure, even if there is little actual rugby. 

Please explain this "trickle down"? I am not aware of any so far.


Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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1 minute ago, Blind side johnny said:

Please explain this "trickle down"? I am not aware of any so far.

As in, Sky money is divvied out to lower league clubs as well as Super League.

EDIT: What Scotchio said

Edited by Man of Kent

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26 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

The costs of running a behind closed doors game is an interesting question. 

I probably come to a slight different conclusion you though. The trainers and medics you mention are surely salaried staff at full time professional clubs so they are fixed costs. The costs of hosting a crowd (gate staff, security etc.) will not be incurred and tv and media will surely cover their own costs.

On the whole, I am not sure that actually hosting a behind closed doors game is prohibitively costly.

A loss in income of £100K+ per game for most. This isn't nett profit of course but it is highly profitable. It is easy to forget the significant income that most clubs derive from sponsors - many of these may likely be reluctant to pay up, adding to the financial hit.


Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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4 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

As in, Sky money is divvied out to lower league clubs as well as Super League.

EDIT: What Scotchio said

I have Scotchy on ignore, thankfully.

Contractual payments are not "trickle down" so you might be conflating economic jargon. The Championship clubs are not obliged to play their games in order to receive their part of the distribution as their games aren't televised, with a very few exceptions.


Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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3 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

A loss in income of £100K+ per game for most. This isn't nett profit of course but it is highly profitable. It is easy to forget the significant income that most clubs derive from sponsors - many of these may likely be reluctant to pay up, adding to the financial hit.

The loss of matchday income is there when you are playing no games at all.  My point wasn't about the loss of income but more about the actual costs associated with hosting a game behind closed doors when most of the variable costs of hosting a game come with the actual crowd itself.

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1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

The loss of matchday income is there when you are playing no games at all.  My point wasn't about the loss of income but more about the actual costs associated with hosting a game behind closed doors when most of the variable costs of hosting a game come with the actual crowd itself.

I supose that we are in a semantic argument about cost as sistinct from loss of income. I don't believe that most SL clubs can readily cope with the loss of income that would result from playing behind closed doors. Their fixed costs, including salaries, are not fully met by the Sky money by any means.


Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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Just now, Blind side johnny said:

I supose that we are in a semantic argument about cost as sistinct from loss of income. I don't believe that most SL clubs can readily cope with the loss of income that would result from playing behind closed doors. Their fixed costs, including salaries, are not fully met by the Sky money by any means.

Well income and costs are two completely different things so it is hardly semantic (and most business are scrambling around to reduce costs now that their income is significantly reduced).

What we do know is that no competitive Rugby League is being played (let's stick with Super League for the time being).

What we don't know is what this means to the payments from SKY or club sponsors because we do not have access to the details behind these contracts.

Therefore, we don't know if running a game behind closed doors is financially worthwhile for the sport or individual clubs.  If we can turn an income stream back on that has been suspended then it is most probably worthwhile.  If we are just adding costs then maybe not... but as fans I am sure we will all want to see some RL when it is safe to do so as soon as possible.

My initial post however was about the actual costs of hosting a game, not the overall commercial impact.

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I don’t think you should underestimate governments hidden part in this, I read the BBC website and speak with relatives back in the UK and it appears that you may be struggling to keep people at home, especially in the good weather. I can tell you that although most people here in BC are following the plan an increasing minority are getting restless and want to get out, a bit of top level sport on TV might just keep enough of them home to help control the spread of the virus, so I would be expecting something around late June.

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Quick points in response.

Comparing the situation in Australia with that in Britain is like comparing Apples and Pears. Every NRL game is televised but only two Super League games per week are. The other four would presumably be played without an audience and before you post that audience figures would be high. Other sports from Darts and Snooker to Cricket and Soccer would also be being played without an audience to begin with as well, so high ratings are not a given.

The relationship betyween SKY SPORTS and Sport in the UK is nowhere near as bad as down under. Soccer and Cricket will be getting their money this year so by the look of it will rugby league. There is a quid pro quo in that there will be additional games in future at no extra cost (Soccer and RL) or the contract extended for a season at no extra cost (Cricket) but fundamentally there is no reason why sporting bodies should feel at risk from their main broadcaster.

Once crowds can attend later in the year, then Championship clubs, who do rely on gate mone,y will want to play and in a situation where there is an outcome to the season and not a series of glorified friendlies. With a reduced number of fixtures to be played the issue in rugby league would become - Do we retain competition points already earned or start again from scratch in order to ensure the integirity of the competition, as is currently under debate in Australia. Forget about no P&R and relegated clubs using the courts. the game as a whole needs to agree the remit and rules surroundng the league competition before the restart, that way everyone knows where they stand before kickoff.

Player Welfare does need to be taken into account and two games a week should be an exception not the rule. When drawing up the fixture list.

Rugby League Player Contracts expire 30th November (source Brian Carney). If all goes well there would be sufficient time to finish off the Challenge Cup matches as per normal and have a meaningful season before the end of November. If common sense is applied then the 2021 season will be moved back by a number of weeks, allowing for a proper season and sufficient time to prepare for the world cup.


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1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said:

A loss in income of £100K+ per game for most. This isn't nett profit of course but it is highly profitable. It is easy to forget the significant income that most clubs derive from sponsors - many of these may likely be reluctant to pay up, adding to the financial hit.

Eamon Mcmanus reckoned Sts were going to lose around £400k income from the GF derby. I'll try and dig out the article - it was in the Hull daily Mail.

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4 hours ago, Dunbar said:

The costs of running a behind closed doors game is an interesting question. 

I probably come to a slight different conclusion you though. The trainers and medics you mention are surely salaried staff at full time professional clubs so they are fixed costs. The costs of hosting a crowd (gate staff, security etc.) will not be incurred and tv and media will surely cover their own costs.

On the whole, I am not sure that actually hosting a behind closed doors game is prohibitively costly.

It is if you are paying to hire a stadium , and/or it isn't being televised 

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2 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Eamon Mcmanus reckoned Sts were going to lose around £400k income from the GF derby. I'll try and dig out the article - it was in the Hull daily Mail.

 https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/eamonn-mcmanus-counts-cost-easter-21841519

 I'd be surprised if parents allow their children to be ball retrievers at these 'behind closed doors' games.

 If they aren't,the likelihood of players taking a tumble amongst seats/terracing is pretty high.

  I'm going to be interested in how the NRL gets on - if they do - at the end of May.


     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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11 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

It is if you are paying to hire a stadium , and/or it isn't being televised 

You could always use/hire a cheaper venue.  You don't need a 20k seater stadium if nobody is coming to watch.

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2 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

You could always use/hire a cheaper venue.  You don't need a 20k seater stadium if nobody is coming to watch.

Look forward to watching the Wigan Saints derby from St Pat's ?

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8 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

I'm not sure even Superleague can afford to play behind closed doors. TV money covers most teams' playing budget, but they raise the same amount or more through matchdays to cover the rest of their costs. And most of those costs will be incurred if games are being played, such as coaches, trainers, medics, media etc. 

Some SL clubs will be able to access finance to cover the gap, but others won't, so the only way to keep SL going is for the richer SL clubs to help the poorer ones get through. If they don't, there will be no competition anyway. 

It is more if they can afford not to...if Sky say play or no money they will play.

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8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Look forward to watching the Wigan Saints derby from St Pat's ?

If a game is not on TV and there is no crowd, why do you need the stands?

In fact, even if it is on TV why do you need the stands?

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6 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

If a game is not on TV and there is no crowd, why do you need the stands?

In fact, even if it is on TV why do you need the stands?

As I said , St Pat's ?

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If the UK is 2 weeks behind Italy,and in the hope journalists in Italy are ahead of those in England...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8212121/Coronavirus-Serie-join-Bundesliga-not-letting-fans-stadiums-start-YEAR.html

 


     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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16 hours ago, saddleworth said:

For goodness sake, here we are debating when the sports scenes will return, meanwhile we are sat in the epi-centre of a pandemic which is capable of wiping out the social, economic and financial systems of continents. Let us clean up our man made mess and then sit back and discuss the less important issues. I am more concerned about my family and grandchildren, than having a kick about behind closed doors.

Why you on a rugby forum then? 

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On 12/04/2020 at 15:57, Dunbar said:

The costs of running a behind closed doors game is an interesting question. 

I probably come to a slight different conclusion you though. The trainers and medics you mention are surely salaried staff at full time professional clubs so they are fixed costs. The costs of hosting a crowd (gate staff, security etc.) will not be incurred and tv and media will surely cover their own costs.

On the whole, I am not sure that actually hosting a behind closed doors game is prohibitively costly.

For Toulouse games, I can't comment on what the costs of the stadium are, i.e. rent , but for the team, the 2 full time trainers are on the Govt 80% Furlough scheme,  and there is no security at the games other than the ticket guys, and they won't be needed. Medical staff is the worry for me (the physios are  self employed) as if a player is seriously injured how long would they have to wait for proper medical support?

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1 minute ago, kiggy said:

For Toulouse games, I can't comment on what the costs of the stadium are, i.e. rent , but for the team, the 2 full time trainers are on the Govt 80% Furlough scheme,  and there is no security at the games other than the ticket guys, and they won't be needed. Medical staff is the worry for me (the physios are  self employed) as if a player is seriously injured how long would they have to wait for proper medical support?

Fair comments.  I think by the time we even get to the point where games are going ahead behind closed doors some of the more critical economies will be back online and so furlough schemes may be winding down.

I won't comment on the availability of medical staff as that has been covered ad nauseum on another thread.

As I have said before, my biggest worry for Catalan in Super League and Toulouse in the Championship is that the games may restart while some international travel restrictions remain in place - what this does for both of these teams competing  the (majority) UK based leagues is very much an unknown at this stage.

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On 13/04/2020 at 05:17, Mattrhino said:

Why you on a rugby forum then? 

To give HIS opinion like you! He's also right in what he's saying, i don't know if you watch the news but it's over 12,000 deaths now. 

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15 minutes ago, MADREDNIGE said:

To give HIS opinion like you! He's also right in what he's saying, i don't know if you watch the news but it's over 12,000 deaths now. 

Sorry, I'm with Mattrhino on this one.

I don't think there is anyone on here who isn't fully aware of what's happening in the world and the terrible toll the deaths are taking on our country.

And of course these things are far more important than when games of Rugby League will start again. 

But there is no value on coming on here just to tell us to not discuss these things because there are other more important matters in the world... I can't speak for anyone else but chat on here is a very welcome diversion from current events. 

If you don't think it is appropriate to discuss sport at this time then don't do it but let's not tell others what they should be doing.

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Well wether you like it or not SPORT is being affected big time by this virus so it all ties in hence the difference in opinions. This thread wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for the Virus. 

Edited by MADREDNIGE

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