Promotion Criteria Publicised

[Hela Wigmen]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

No I am saying it was tried, and we should not return to it, as much as you like the annual comp with Wigan, Warrington, and Leeds, and seeing combinations of those games evey week, from early August there are many more who want variety, jeopardy and the Championship play offs provide that, Sky would be foolish to let it be abandoned.

And what you’re proposing chokes the ambitious clubs whilst pandering to clubs with little to no ambition to give them an inflated opinion of themselves. Promotion and relegation has rarely “worked”. 

[Harry Stottle]

7 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

And what you’re proposing chokes the ambitious clubs whilst pandering to clubs with little to no ambition to give them an inflated opinion of themselves. Promotion and relegation has rarely “worked”. 

You are saying that the Championship clubs Chairmen/Owners, officers and staff financing and trying to win promotion have no ambition? You are delusional Hela.

But that wasn't the point of the post was it, I will maintain that with just the "Road to Old Trafford" to screen the content gets boring, however much the fans of those clubs relish it all the time on TV with the same clubs in combination every week, there are those who want some variety.

[Hela Wigmen]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

You are saying that the Championship clubs Chairmen/Owners, officers and staff financing and trying to win promotion have no ambition? You are delusional Hela.

But that wasn't the point of the post was it, I will maintain that with just the "Road to Old Trafford" to screen the content gets boring, however much the fans of those clubs relish it all the time on TV with the same clubs in combination every week, there are those who want some variety.

Promotion and relegation has not worked. It’s, largely, been a yo-yo cycle between the same clubs, with plenty overextending themselves and putting their clubs’ future in jeopardy for a year of £1.8m+ funding. Can you honestly say it’s working? By the same premise that you’re poo-pooing Super League’s successful clubs for having the propensity to run their club properly on and off the pitch, the Championship is the same few clubs vying for promotion with the relegated side from Super League before one of them inevitably goes pop, again. That’s boring and I don’t believe that actually does anything for the game long-term at Championship level, nor does it at Super League level. 

 

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Promotion and relegation has not worked. It’s, largely, been a yo-yo cycle between the same clubs, with plenty overextending themselves and putting their clubs’ future in jeopardy for a year of £1.8m+ funding. Can you honestly say it’s working? By the same premise that you’re poo-pooing Super League’s successful clubs for having the propensity to run their club properly on and off the pitch, the Championship is the same few clubs vying for promotion with the relegated side from Super League before one of them inevitably goes pop, again. That’s boring and I don’t believe that actually does anything for the game long-term at Championship level, nor does it at Super League level. 

 

We could go into the awarding of the 1.8M as the only reason some clubs stay in the SL, that is their ambition right there to stay in SL but that has been done to death so no poibt going over it again.

But once again Hela you are changing the subject to suit your own means of what the conversation is, which is about Sky having more variety to screen for their audience with the inclusion of jeapordy and the Championship playoffs, is that a true statement or not?

It is a simple yes or no!

[Hela Wigmen]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

We could go into the awarding of the 1.8M as the only reason some clubs stay in the SL, that is their ambition right there to stay in SL but that has been done to death so no poibt going over it again.

But once again Hela you are changing the subject to suit your own means of what the conversation is, which is about Sky having more variety to screen for their audience with the inclusion of jeapordy and the Championship playoffs, is that a true statement or not?

It is a simple yes or no!

That’s true. There’s a balance needed and one that is sought after for many. 

It’s not. The Championship play-offs and Championship in general has not been televised for years now, beyond Toronto’s games and the Championship Grand Final, so it’s not a simple yes or no. 

[Harry Stottle]

4 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

That’s true. There’s a balance needed and one that is sought after for many. 

It’s not. The Championship play-offs and Championship in general has not been televised for years now, beyond Toronto’s games and the Championship Grand Final, so it’s not a simple yes or no. 

There was more than just the Championship GF screened in last years comp. 

But honestly I have been with Sky and it's predecessor since the mid 80's just for Rugby League, albeit I watch Cricket and Golf if RL was not on I would not subscribe, after tonight's game I will cancel my subscription and resume for the Kick off in March, but I am now of a mindset if we go back to licensing or whatever we call it if ever that time does come, I will not renew my subscription, I will pacify myself with purchasing an NRL pass.

As I say being a fan of one of the big four it will suit you, your interest will be maintained throughout, for me I want more variety, jeopardy and the championship play off's will provide that.

[Hela Wigmen]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

There was more than just the Championship GF screened in last years comp. 

But honestly I have been with Sky and it's predecessor since the mid 80's just for Rugby League, albeit I watch Cricket and Golf if RL was not on I would not subscribe, after tonight's game I will cancel my subscription and resume for the Kick off in March, but I am now of a mindset if we go back to licensing or whatever we call it if ever that time does come, I will not renew my subscription, I will pacify myself with purchasing an NRL pass.

As I say being a fan of one of the big four it will suit you, your interest will be maintained throughout, for me I want more variety, jeopardy and the championship play off's will provide that.

Yes, games that were played by Toronto and the utterly pointless Bash weekend. 

My interest in not necessarily maintained. Saints more often than not are in the top two or three clubs, so our play-off place is usually confirmed relatively early into the season due to giving middling clubs an inflated opinion of themselves by bloating the play-off’s to six to eight teams, two formats we’ve had in years gone by. For many of our games at the end of the season are merely box ticking exercises for club chairmen to get their sacred x amount of home games a year rather than actually having anything riding on them, while we sit around waiting for the play-offs and proper rugby to start again. 

[RS]

1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Promotion and relegation has not worked. It’s, largely, been a yo-yo cycle between the same clubs, with plenty overextending themselves and putting their clubs’ future in jeopardy for a year of £1.8m+ funding. Can you honestly say it’s working? By the same premise that you’re poo-pooing Super League’s successful clubs for having the propensity to run their club properly on and off the pitch, the Championship is the same few clubs vying for promotion with the relegated side from Super League before one of them inevitably goes pop, again. That’s boring and I don’t believe that actually does anything for the game long-term at Championship level, nor does it at Super League level. 

 

Castleford, Huddersfield, Hull KR, Salford and Wakefield have all come up and stayed up for a decent length of time. Widnes lasted a few years too. 

Funnily enough a number of clubs have got in a mess financially after a few years in SL (Bradford, Widnes, Salford etc etc) 

[Liverpool Rover]

20 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

I have every reason to doubt you would say that if you were outside of SL, a bit like Tony Smith's views.

Of course it is great for Rovers to be in Super League but when it comes down to it I would rather have RL and a Rovers stuck in the lower leagues to watch than neither at all.

The game is skint and becoming increasingly irrelevant to the media, sponsors and the public.  A Super League with Toulouse, London, Newcastle and Ottawa if they get off the ground would give the league a more national feel to it and overseas exposure that could attract more money into the game and the more that comes in the more will filter down to the lower leagues. The clubs I mentioned would have a much better chance of growing to compete with the top clubs if they aren’t having to look over their shoulder at the drop all the time.

For the game to have a future it needs to be attractive to the next generation of sports fan who will be able tune in to Liverpool v Bayern or Leicester Tigers v Stade Francais so RL needs something it can offer to try and match them. As there are no other European leagues of a similar standard to SL and not likely to be for a very long time the next best thing is to have some overseas teams in the league and with what will hopefully a better run Ottawa another chance for North American exposure. If they were all relegated we would end up back to square one as a regionalised northern sport that nobody would care about.

 

[Hela Wigmen]

7 minutes ago, RS said:

Castleford, Huddersfield, Hull KR, Salford and Wakefield have all come up and stayed up for a decent length of time. Widnes lasted a few years too. 

Funnily enough a number of clubs have got in a mess financially after a few years in SL (Bradford, Widnes, Salford etc etc) 

4/5 have been in Super League for the best part of ten years, Cas yo-yo’d and Hull KR come back at the first opportunity. 

[Liverpool Rover]

14 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Have you ever been outside ' some sort of licencing system ' ? , Believe me you would ' feel ' something then , possibly like me , bored to the point where I stopped attending 

The important thing for me is that there is a Rovers to continue to follow. The Championship is a competitive league and would be a good, worthwhile prize to win, promotion or not.

[audois]

9 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

4/5 have been in Super League for the best part of ten years, Cas yo-yo’d and Hull KR come back at the first opportunity. 

Catalans were kept up in 2006 and 2010. 2007 though they made Wembley. In 2009 they were 80 minutes away from Old Trafford. Nearly went down in 2017 too. Year after won at Wembley and year after 2019 broke the competitions regular season crowd record 31,555 in Barcelona.

[Hela Wigmen]

Just now, audois said:

Catalans were kept up in 2006 and 2010. 2007 though they made Wembley. In 2009 they were 80 minutes away from Old Trafford. Nearly went down in 2017 too. Year after won at Wembley and year after 2019 broke the competitions regular season crowd record 31,555 in Barcelona.

Which proves why they need time to build. As do Toulouse. 

[Oxford]

1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Which proves why they need time to build. As do Toulouse. 

Because it's sport & passion & a fixation no one will understand or accept your business model especially if it affects their team. And sometimes when it hasn't affected them they'll say it has. 

It obvious that the stability clubs have in the NRL is a missing ingredient here.

It's not just time to build but the ability to develop beyond hanging around for a bit of luck.

Our passion is a recipe for jeopardy & neither clubs nor fans are willing to put in the infrastructure to do anything but ever decreasing circles.

[ATLANTISMAN]

2 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Yes, games that were played by Toronto and the utterly pointless Bash weekend. 

My interest in not necessarily maintained. Saints more often than not are in the top two or three clubs, so our play-off place is usually confirmed relatively early into the season due to giving middling clubs an inflated opinion of themselves by bloating the play-off’s to six to eight teams, two formats we’ve had in years gone by. For many of our games at the end of the season are merely box ticking exercises for club chairmen to get their sacred x amount of home games a year rather than actually having anything riding on them, while we sit around waiting for the play-offs and proper rugby to start again. 

One has to remember HW that the TW matches were paid for by David Argyle who was covering the cost SKY picked them up for free.

 

P

[Harry Stottle]

34 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Because it's sport & passion & a fixation

It is exactly those things Oxy, as I have stated I would sooner my team be subjected to relegation than the result of a game meaning diddly squat, I honestly can't and never will see the point of that, and if someone can tell me that situation will not get into the player's heads also and they won't ease off when there is nothing of any consequence to play for I simply won't believe them.

[Harry Stottle]

16 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

One has to remember Harry that the TW matches were paid for by David Argyle who was covering the cost SKY picked them up for free.

 

P

I don't understand what point you are trying to make Paul. Ah yes unfortunately we have not had this season to see if Sky would repeat showing the Championship finals, after all the 8's were prominent on TV. Which if one thinks about it, it was an amalgamation of jeapordy and promotion.

[Oxford]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It is exactly those things Oxy, as I have stated I would sooner my team be subjected to relegation than the result of a game meaning diddly squat, I honestly can't and never will see the point of that, and if someone can tell me that situation will not get into the player's heads also and they won't ease off when there is nothing of any consequence to play for I simply won't believe them.

Yes 'arry but all you've provided there is evidence as to why we'll continue doing the same old things and then expecting it not to end in tears each time.

[ATLANTISMAN]

14 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I don't understand what point you are trying to make Paul. Ah yes unfortunately we have not had this season to see if Sky would repeat showing the Championship finals, after all the 8's were prominent on TV. Which if one thinks about it, it was an amalgamation of jeapordy and promotion.

Sorry Harry (I should have replied to HW) maybe I am reading the thread the wrong way I thought it was a complaint about wasted matches on SKY.

 

 

[Gooleboy]

1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Which proves why they need time to build. As do Toulouse. 

And if your team finished above them, but got relegated, would you be fine with that?

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

And if your team finished above them, but got relegated, would you be fine with that?

Yeah, because they'd be the worst English team being replaced by another English team

[Smudger06]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

There was more than just the Championship GF screened in last years comp. 

But honestly I have been with Sky and it's predecessor since the mid 80's just for Rugby League, albeit I watch Cricket and Golf if RL was not on I would not subscribe, after tonight's game I will cancel my subscription and resume for the Kick off in March, but I am now of a mindset if we go back to licensing or whatever we call it if ever that time does come, I will not renew my subscription, I will pacify myself with purchasing an NRL pass.

As I say being a fan of one of the big four it will suit you, your interest will be maintained throughout, for me I want more variety, jeopardy and the championship play off's will provide that.

I've got sky sports full package and bt sports and I ain't with sky or bt, I'm with Virgin media for the fibre optic cable mainly haha. So paying full whack. I don't watch super league, well I do because its on, I've got cas tigers fans in my house ffs. The better half, and my young daughters are cas fans as well, even though they have been to post office road as well as Wheldon Road quite a bit. Its perplexing to say the least. Must be Glory hunters the daughters, but my missus is from cas so can let her off. Anyway, this virgin media full monty costs a bloody arm and a leg. I watch all types of sports otherwise I'd reckon on we were getting rid of tv deal if championship weren't on  (+ nrl) , the only thing we all watch live on traditional channels now is sport. The rest of the time its Netflix and amazon prime tv innit. 

[Gooleboy]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Yeah, because they'd be the worst English team being replaced by another English team

That's very noble of you, the test to that would come if it ever happened, which is probably unlikely being a Leeds fan. And would the Club Owners agree with you?

[Hela Wigmen]

5 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

And if your team finished above them, but got relegated, would you be fine with that?

I wouldn’t be fine with my club being poor all season, no, I’d want changes at the club on and off the field. Would I mind relegation? If those are the rules, so be it. Personally, I’m against relegation at all but that’s another issue for another time. 

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

That's very noble of you, the test to that would come if it ever happened, which is probably unlikely being a Leeds fan. And would the Club Owners agree with you?

It's not noble, its what everyone else advocating promotion and relegation wants. The bottom English team in Super League replaced with the top English team in the championship. Having Toulouse in there makes zero difference to that.