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Direct contact with the head


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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

WDL going the extra mile. 

Great to see. 

Absolutely.

I brought up the incident along with the unfortunate Kasiano one on the match thread before seeing this thread.

Now, having read this thread, which I think had every right to be posted, I was disappointed that Futtocks, John M and Padge decide it's obviously an anti Wigan thread.

And reading terms like "snowflakes" after reasonable objections to a high shot, clear as day, followed up by the perpetrator picking an obviously distressed Dwyer up and dropping him back down on the floor?

Really?

 

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Sky Sports Jenna Brooks to Jake Connor regarding England selection : "Shaun Wane has said that he's spoken to you about why you were left out, he's also said he's told you what you needed to do more of, I'm interested, what do you need to do more of and did you do it tonight?"

Jake Connor : "I don't know, to be honest I haven't spoken to him."

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As much as I hate to blame individuals I think it may be time for a little break for mr kendall.  He let the wigan lads belt chunks out of Lomax a few weeks ago McNamara has seen this and thought we can try this v leeds and unsurprisingly they got away with it too! We need to get a grip of this now firstly someone is going to get seriously injured but secondly if I was a decent aussie player seeing that I would think twice before coming to superleague 

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Putting aside the club affiliation bit for a moment.

It is the tacklers responsibility to ensure that there is no dangerous contact and a player falling forward is no mitigation. 

He made direct contact with the players head (face) with a swinging arm and caused injury. 

Penalty? Definitely 

Yellow card? At least

Red card? I would have no arguments with that. We have to take contact with the head more seriously. 

As for trying to pull a clearly injured player up to his feet. It doesn't change the incident but it's a @#$% thing to do.

Edited by Dunbar
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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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6 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Putting aside the club affiliation bit for a moment.

It is the tacklers responsibility to ensure that there is no dangerous contact and a player falling forward is no mitigation. 

He made direct contact with the players head (face) with a swinging arm and caused injury. 

Penalty? Definitely 

Yellow card? At least

Red card? I would have no arguments with that. We have to take contact with the head more seriously. 

As for trying to pull a clearly injured player up to his feet. It doesn't change the incident but it's a @#$% thing to do.

He tried to pull the player to his feet so that the incident couldn’t be reviewed by the VR.

Why the VR did not deem it a yellow at least is a strange decision although I can fully understand how the referee missed the incident with his one view from one angle at full speed etc purely because of the type of incident - player falling et 

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10 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

No , he is right , we need parents to be happy to let their sons play the game , if they think the pro's aren't going to be punished , they'll not believe little Johnny will either 

Mcillorum was lucky because he was already tackled and going down , was there intent ? , Well , you'll know more than us mere mortals on that one 

So tell me, how many red cards have there been this season, and how many yellows have got suspensions?  Quite a few.  It's always going to happen, so on the basis of we must not upset parents then we should ban the game.

On the basis of previous incidents Mac should get at least 1 suspension.  Things happen quick, the defender was falling, but McIlorum fell down holding his arm out, not grasping.  

Edited by Rupert Prince
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1 minute ago, Rupert Prince said:

So tell me, how many red cards have there been this season, and how many yellows have got suspensions?  Quite a few.  It's always going to happen, so on the basis of we must not upset parents then we should ban the game.

On the basis of previous incidence Mac should get at least 1 suspension.  Things happen quick, the defender was falling, but McIlorum fell down holding his arm out, not grasping.  

As I put , he got away with it due to Dwyer already being tackled and going down , was there intent ? , Only Mickey knows that , was Dwyer injured ? , Well again , Mickey knew where the contact had been , but he then tried to pick him up suggesting he was feigning injury 

 

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Just now, GUBRATS said:

As I put , he got away with it due to Dwyer already being tackled and going down , was there intent ? , Only Mickey knows that , was Dwyer injured ? , Well again , Mickey knew where the contact had been , but he then tried to pick him up suggesting he was feigning injury 

Yes, I imagine that he rather quickly pulled him up to try to imply there was no contact, or it was an accident.

I really don't think we should obsess about this.  A lot of high tackles take place because 1. the game is very quick. 2. defenders are vey comitted. 3. attackers fall or slip .  But McIlorum slid in and held out his arm... it was an accident waiting to happen. It deserved a yellow... and a suspension.

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3 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Yes, I imagine that he rather quickly pulled him up to try to imply there was no contact, or it was an accident.

I really don't think we should obsess about this.  A lot of high tackles take place because 1. the game is very quick. 2. defenders are vey comitted. 3. attackers fall or slip .  But McIlorum slid in and held out his arm... it was an accident waiting to happen. It deserved a yellow... and a suspension.

I agree , yellow at most , no suspension , however I recall the Jamie Acton incident a few years back on Greg Bird , who was feigning injury , and the calls on here for him to be banned 

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I was staggered no action was taken , and on reflection I’m even more staggered . We’re told about direct contact to the head , we’re told that the onus is on the tackler , and we’re told that if a player is falling it’s not that relevant . We’ve seen many instances of yellow and red cards where the protocols have been applied , players have been dismissed and some are saying ‘ that’s  harsh ‘ ... but the answer is ‘ those are the rules ‘ . So what happened last night ? All those things went out the window , inexplicably for me . It was a swinging arm , direct to the mush , and Dwyer had his mouth and nose mangled up just to give the officials an extra clue . It was reviewed as play stopped ... and nothing happened . I mean how , honestly? And hauling up an injured player who could be concussed or badly injured to the head especially is disgusting . ‘ Please get up I don’t want that to be looked at , I’m thinking of me not you mate ‘ . Awful 

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As I put earlier , when Greg Bird put a late high shot on Ben Reynolds , and then realising it'd probably get him carded , so he played ' possum ' , and Jamie Acton grabbed his shirt , gave him some verbals , put him back down we had some on here calling for Acton to be banned for life , might just search out that thread later to see who was going apoplectic 

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3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

As I put earlier , when Greg Bird put a late high shot on Ben Reynolds , and then realising it'd probably get him carded , so he played ' possum ' , and Jamie Acton grabbed his shirt , gave him some verbals , put him back down we had some on here calling for Acton to be banned for life , might just search out that thread later to see who was going apoplectic 

I may be a bit slow today so please humour me. What point are you making here?

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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3 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I may be a bit slow today so please humour me. What point are you making here?

Because he'd touched an ' injured ' player , 95% of the fans on here were demanding he be banned for life 

Not quite the same reaction last night for a player who was actually injured 

Bird wasn't injured , he had flattened another player with a high late tackle and knew he'd most likely get a card , so feighned injury , which is what incensed Acton 

All about which club it is , and who you support , no excuse for Mcillorum , he knew he'd hit Dywer

 

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Incidentally, I've just finished watching the Aaron Hernandez case and one of the areas it touches upon is CTE in the NFL. Which is of course linked to head injuries.

It seems between the relatively similar sports of NFL, Rugby Union and Rugby League we have 3 different ways of looking at this. NFL pads and helmets give players a false sense of security and are indeed actively encouraged to run head first. Their leadership is also, for various reasons including a certain bravado and chauvanism common to all impact sports, in denial about the problem. Rugby Union, at the professional level at least on this issue, is totally the other way. Anything from the shoulders upwards is liable to being penalised and refs regularly card players for high tackles. They've done this relatively recently and quickly too.

RL is in a bit of a conundrum of our own making, to put it kindly. We claim to be concerned about head knocks and high tackles, yet see it repeatedly unpunished every single game. Contact with the head and neck is accepted seemingly on the subjectivity of whether it "looked bad to the ref at the time" or if the player complains or indeed whether the ref had given the player a previous chance to get away with one. Even in a game where it is penalised, say last night, it seems to be that our refs are somewhat reluctant to intervene. Catalans got 4 penalties for high shots alone in the space of 20 minutes, and not including the McIlorum incident could have had more. That no greater punishment than a penalty was dished out in that period of the game is at best worrying, at worst damaging. Was there much different between the high shots that were penalised and some that weren't? I'd argue nothing too significant.

McIlorum's case in particular, however you view it, as a swinging arm, a tackle on a falling player or a thinly veiled attack, would be inexplicable to any audience as to why that wasn't punished. Contact, arguably violent contact, with the head was clear and obvious, and totally unpunished. We are not boxing where hits to the head are par for the course and we should not take the NFL's head in the sand technique.

In that context, how can the game claim it is serious on head injuries and CTE? 

I know I wasn't the only person to see comments about parents being concerned about their kids playing a game that accepts that at the top level in a high profile match. The term "Thugby League" shouldn't be bandied about too much by ourselves because it undoubtedly spreads negative images of the sport, but we need to be seen to stamp it out also.

I know it sounds ridiculous, but parents won't let their kid's head footballs now. What chance does RL have in a broad spectrum of society? In slightly more tragic terms, how many people will look at the Rob Burrow and Doddie Weir MND cases and think that maybe other team sports are better suited?

I think we're at the stage where for once we need to take a look at Union and have any contact with the neck or head be penalties or worse as a deterrent to stop this tactic. It removes all doubt and debate from the issue and takes it out of the refs remit of discretion to "manage the game" or "let the game flow".

I have to admit a bit of personal skin in the game here. As someone who was regularly high shotted (and used by my own team to get those penalties on occasion), I've got plenty of experience of this. Fortunately, touch wood I believe I avoided any of the particularly bad side effects to my brain, but picked up broken noses, bust lips and black eyes relatively often for my troubles. I've never been a fan of thuggery in the game and believe we really have to strive for the "played by gentlemen" culture.

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1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

Because he'd touched an ' injured ' player , 95% of the fans on here were demanding he be banned for life 

Not quite the same reaction last night for a player who was actually injured 

Bird wasn't injured , he had flattened another player with a high late tackle and knew he'd most likely get a card , so feighned injury , which is what incensed Acton 

All about which club it is , and who you support , no excuse for Mcillorum , he knew he'd hit Dywer

 

McIlorum picking up Dwyer after what he had done was actually far worse than the dirty shot he put on. Had Dwyer been seriously injured as he could have been similar to the innocuous looking Adam O'Brien injury, McIlorum could have caused life changing damage just by picking him up to throw down again. It was outrageous and should result in a separate and more lengthy ban imo. 

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1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

Because he'd touched an ' injured ' player , 95% of the fans on here were demanding he be banned for life 

Not quite the same reaction last night for a player who was actually injured 

Bird wasn't injured , he had flattened another player with a high late tackle and knew he'd most likely get a card , so feighned injury , which is what incensed Acton 

All about which club it is , and who you support , no excuse for Mcillorum , he knew he'd hit Dywer

 

You mean the Acton/ Bird incident  for which Acton got 9 matches and which Acton appealed trying to get it graded A/B instead of the correct grade of an F

The 2 incidents are very different 

Edited by LeeF
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14 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

McIlorum picking up Dwyer after what he had done was actually far worse than the dirty shot he put on. Had Dwyer been seriously injured as he could have been similar to the innocuous looking Adam O'Brien injury, McIlorum could have caused life changing damage just by picking him up to throw down again. It was outrageous and should result in a separate and more lengthy ban imo. 

Which is exactly the outrage on here over Acton picking up Bird , Jamie got a massive ban ruling him out of the 8s 

Hardly a mention about it from last night 

The difference was Dwyer was hurt , Bird was a scumbag who wasn't hurt at all but had just cleaned out Ben Reynolds 

Massive double standards 

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Which is exactly the outrage on here over Acton picking up Bird , Jamie got a massive ban ruling him out of the 8s 

Hardly a mention about it from last night 

The difference was Dwyer was hurt , Bird was a scumbag who wasn't hurt at all but had just cleaned out Ben Reynolds 

Massive double standards 

Tbh Gubby I was raging but wasn't on here! 

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2 minutes ago, LeeF said:

You mean the Acton incident were the Disciplinary minutes state that Bird was injured prior to Acton’s actions and for which Acton got 9 matches for?

Except Bird wasn't injured , he had just smashed Ben Reynolds with a high late shot , yes they had to take him off to keep up the charade 

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Which is exactly the outrage on here over Acton picking up Bird , Jamie got a massive ban ruling him out of the 8s 

Hardly a mention about it from last night 

The difference was Dwyer was hurt , Bird was a scumbag who wasn't hurt at all but had just cleaned out Ben Reynolds 

Massive double standards 

Acton did a lot more than just pick up Bird and no I am not defending last night’s incident but they are different

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Just now, GUBRATS said:

Except Bird wasn't injured , he had just smashed Ben Reynolds with a high late shot , yes they had to take him off to keep up the charade 

Don’t try and defend Acton for what he did. It is completely indefensible

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